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Dinges Senior Member Joined: 04/01/2008 Location: AlbaniaPosts: 510
Posted: 07:47pm 17 Sep 2008
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As I was rooting through the box with panelmeters, looking for a suitable meter for the anemometer I'm working on (old HDD 3-phase motor with real blade cup, but will post project story when it's finished) I came across this little beauty:
I have *no* idea when, where or how it got into my possession. Was very surprized to find it in the box, even though I once put it there myself...
When the 100 hp conversion is finished and I start pushing power back into the grid, this will make the perfect meter to monitor the kW's going out the door (and the $$$ coming in).
I'll admit, as of yet I have nothing but this little meter. But it's the first step... And every round-the-world voyage starts with the first step! Now to find me a 100 hp motor to convert. And some large blades. And a tower. But no matter what I still need to gather, I won't have to look for a suitable meter anymore.
Peter.
"more power, Igor, we need more power! Launch the kite!"Edited by Dinges 2008-09-19
GWatPE Senior Member Joined: 01/09/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2127
Posted: 11:22pm 17 Sep 2008
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Hi dinges,
You will require a current sensing coil. The type where the wire goes through the middle of a coil of many [approx 1000] turns. They are normally calibrated for a particular voltage, and only measure sensed current.
These are common in older style A/C, or motor control switchboards.
Gordon.become more energy aware
oztules Guru Joined: 26/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1686
Posted: 12:10pm 19 Sep 2008
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Hmm,
From your description Gordon, they are a fixed voltage kw meter, which may just as well be replaced with a normal shunt amp meter with different scale readings.... which makes it useless for variable voltage mills I guess.... , although I suppose you could use it as a rough guide if the battery didn't change it's SOC too much ... or is there more to this than I think?
.........oztules Village idiot...or... just another hack out of his depth
GWatPE Senior Member Joined: 01/09/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2127
Posted: 12:53pm 19 Sep 2008
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Hi oztules,
the models that I have seen looked identical to the model in the photo above. I have seen units calibrated as kW,AC A & AC V. All were only 2 wire connections. A true kW meter would have 3 connections. Dinges can confirm the connections.
Most times with grid connections, we need only measure the current and then scale accordingly.
I don't seem to use analogue meters anymore.
I have found the DickSmith / Altronics [dedicated power measurement function IC] type power meter has the best range, 0.01W-2400W. I use one of these on my inverter. Useful to see the consumption of an LED, or Neon indicator on the 240VAC line. [approx 0.06W] I used this type of meter to identify phantom loads that were stopping my inverter from entering standby mode. Reduced standby current on my 1700W inverter from 0.5A to 0.05A. This was 12AH per day that could be put to better use. approx 2hr of the TV, or back to the grid.
I hope dinges finds a good use for the panel meter.
Gordon.become more energy aware
Dinges Senior Member Joined: 04/01/2008 Location: AlbaniaPosts: 510
Posted: 01:54pm 19 Sep 2008
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Ozules, Gordon, you are right, it's basically a simple analog meter with two terminals. With a shunt it reads amperes. So yes, of pretty limited use as an actual kW meter for a variable voltage application.
The story was more or less tongue in cheek, as I was surprized by this meter being in my possession and having an, err, 'ambitious' scale (ambitious w.r.t. homebrew windpower).
But...there I go, all enthusiastic about my very first part of a new major project, only to be shot down by AA-gunners Gordon and Oztules...
So I guess that means that I don't even have the kW-meter for my 100hp conversion project ?!
Peter (who thinks Oz & Gordon are paid by Big Oil to crush other people's projects... )Edited by Dinges 2008-09-20
GWatPE Senior Member Joined: 01/09/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2127
Posted: 11:38pm 19 Sep 2008
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Hi dinges,
I spend a lot of my time now tinkering with RE. I was fortunate to have a very diversified working career. I had a chance to dabble in many paint pots.
I have no affiliations with multinational Big Oil corporations. Some extra crinkly green stuff would not go astray though.
I am tinkering with a proportional windmill loading system to allow AC coupled systems to use cheap off the shelf unmodified AIR/WATER bar heaters as a diversion load.
Do not let me discourage you from your projects.
Gordon.become more energy aware
oztules Guru Joined: 26/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1686
Posted: 11:56pm 19 Sep 2008
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goodness me,
I just came inside from playing with water heating from battery/mill system. It currently is 2 microwave transformer primaries (used as 2 ohm elements in an icecream container full of water).
It is drawing about 15A from the battery, hook up mill in parallel, and that drops to 5A and (all over the place actually, have seem full mill input and no battery at times) into a 60v battery bank (approx 900watts)... beginnings of interesting use for this mill I think.......Only a mild breeze at the moment though.
.........oztulesVillage idiot...or... just another hack out of his depth
Dinges Senior Member Joined: 04/01/2008 Location: AlbaniaPosts: 510
Posted: 12:42am 20 Sep 2008
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Was just pulling your leg Gordon... I know you don't have a link with Big Oil (I'm not so sure of Oztules though...)
Besides, if I were being paid by Big Oil I'd say too what you did (i.e. that you have no link with them).
That's the spirit! Now let me tell you about this OverUnity scheme I'm thinking of....
Sorry guys, I'll try to keep it serious in the future. I thought the '100 hp' part gave it away anyway.
Peter.
oztules Guru Joined: 26/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1686
Posted: 01:30am 20 Sep 2008
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Keep up the levity Dinges, I'm keeping up the devil may care attitude today. I let the mill drive the heating coils for a bit with no battery stabilisation... not a good idea.
She copped a big gust coming through at about 60 kph or so, and the voltage shot up to around 144v and wound the amp meter off the scale... about 35 amps... the water was boiling madly, and I figure she was driving around the 5kw mark...this went on for an eternity it seemed (probably only a few minutes)
Being a first order wimp. I have shelved any more testing today as the yaw bearing is very stiff, and I am very wimpy ... and the mill would have been 300 mph tip speeds. It was still very quiet, but I have had my thrills for today..
I shall snivel off into the shed and plot my next move. 4 ohms is too high a resistance for this one in a decent blow.... I would have climbed the scale a bit on your meter I think.
cowardly oztules
Village idiot...or... just another hack out of his depth
Don B Senior Member Joined: 27/09/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 190
Posted: 10:36pm 26 Sep 2008
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Dinges,
If the KW scaled meter that you have has only two terminals, it was probably intended for operation with a KW transducer in a 0 to 5V, or 0 to 20 mA, or 4 to 20 mA loop. If this is so, then what you have is essentially a DC voltmeter, or a mA meter.
Hopefully, by peering at the fine print on the scale, you can get an idea of what the base meter movement is. You could also confirm this by feeding a very small DC voltage to it and monitor the current and voltage as you run it up scale.
None of this helps, of course, with your intention to use it to monitor KW, as you would need the associated transducer to do this. While there are many kinds of KW transducers, including those that can have direct current and voltage connections to your generator, the AC ones most usually would require a primary voltage to 110V potential transformer, and a primary current to 1 or 5 V current transformer.
There is also the type of transducer that Gordon mentioned that could presumably be set up to drive your meter, but it is probably much simpler just to drive a liquid crystal display with it.
Notice. New forum software under development. It's going to miss a few functions and look a bit ugly for a while, but I'm working on it full time now as the old forum was too unstable. Couple days, all good. If you notice any issues, please contact me.
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, although I suppose you could use it as a rough guide if the battery didn't change it's SOC too much 
... or is there more to this than I think?
)
