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dwyer
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Joined: 19/09/2005
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Posted: 08:50am 11 Jun 2010
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Here everyone Story got it from News com.au
Govt wants ISPs to record browsing history
By Ben Grubb, ZDNet.com.au on June 11th, 2010 (6 hours ago)

Topics
interception, government, attorney-general, snooping, electronic frontiers australia, internet industry association, iia, efa, online, security, browser, history, isp, browsing





(Camera video de surveillance
image by Frédéric Bisson, CC2.0)
The Attorney-General's Department yesterday confirmed to ZDNet Australia that it had been in discussions with industry on implementing a data retention regime in Australia. Such a regime would require companies providing internet access to log and retain customer's private web browsing history for a certain period of time for law enforcement to access when needed.

Currently, companies that provide customers with a connection to the internet don't retain or log subscriber's private web browsing history unless they are given an interception warrant by law enforcement, usually approved by a judge. It is only then that companies can legally begin tapping a customer's internet connection.

In March 2006, the European Union formally adopted its data retention directive (PDF), a directive which the Australian Government said it wished to use as an example if it implemented such a regime.

"The Attorney-General's Department has been looking at the European Directive on Data Retention, to consider whether such a regime is appropriate within Australia's law enforcement and security context," a statement from the Attorney-General's Department to ZDNet Australia said yesterday. "It has consulted broadly with the telecommunications industry."

The EU regime requires that the communications providers from certain EU member states retain necessary data as specified in the Directive for a period of between six and 24 months.

One internet service provider (ISP) source told ZDNet Australia that the Australian regime, if implemented, could go as far as recording each URL a customer visited and all emails.

That source said such a regime "would be scary and very expensive".

Another industry source said Australians should "be very f***ing afraid".

They said the regime being considered by the Australian Government could see data held for much longer than EU Directive time of 24 months — it would be more like five or ten years.

"They seem quite intent [on implementing the regime] and they keep throwing up the words 'terrorism' and 'paedophiles'," the source said. "We're talking browsing history and emails, way beyond what I would consider to be normal SMS, retaining full browsing history and everything."

Internet Industry Association (IIA) chief executive officer (CEO) Peter Coroneos also confirmed that the industry was having discussions with the Attorney-General's Department.

"There has been some preliminary discussions with the Attorney-General's Department about a proposal for a data retention regime in Australia, but I think those discussions are at a very early stage," Coroneos said. He said the IIA hadn't "seen any firm proposals yet from the government".

"It's more along the lines of [the Attorney-General's Department asking] 'What do you see the issues of being if we were to move to a position similar to the EU'," he said.

"But as I say, there wouldn't be any intention, I wouldn't think, to move to any policy position on this unless there was a full public debate about the proposal."

If the idea were to move to a more "serious proposal", Coroneos said the IIA's view would be "to engage not only with the industry but also the community in a proper discussion".

Electronic Frontier Australia (EFA) chair Colin Jacobs said the regime was "a step too far".

"At some point data retention laws can be reasonable, but highly-personal information such as browsing history is a step too far," Jacobs said. "You can't treat everybody like a criminal. That would be like tapping people's phones before they are suspected of doing any crime."

He added that browser history could reveal all sorts of personal information. "And furthermore, the way the internet works, it's a huge amount of data to be kept and it requires some snooping on the part of the ISPs into which [web] pages people are looking at."

In February, the senate passed a Bill allowing ISPs to intercept traffic as part of "network protection activities". According to an ISP source, it's likely another Bill would be required for a data retention regime to be implemented.

"It is likely that new legislation will be required to put any [data retention] obligations in place," the source said. "It seems to be early days yet, and we have an election looming, which means there will be some time required to get any new law in place."


Dwyer
 
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Posted: 10:14am 11 Jun 2010
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Hi Dwyer

Big Brother is alive and sick in the head.

The truth is that they have the facilities to do it now and do so whether it is illegal or not, they do have key sites they filter to see who is frequenting them and employ many backroom boys to do their dirty deeds, this is done under the guise of anti terrorism and sex related perversions.

As for data retention they do that themselves so asking the ISP to do so is only to relieve the data accumulation on their own computers, but I think they will require both to have a backup and avoid internal data corruption intentional or unintentional.

All the best

Bob
Foolin Around
 
neil0mac
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Joined: 26/12/2009
Location: Australia
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Posted: 11:04pm 11 Jun 2010
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Maybe I'm queer (in the sense of being peculiar!) but it strikes me that those who object to censorship/big brother happenings suffer from a sense of insecurity that is probably unfounded - unless they have something which they think may need to be hidden some time later?

(Duck quick!)
 
Gizmo

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Joined: 05/06/2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 5116
Posted: 01:16am 12 Jun 2010
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Yeah I'm not overly concerned about big brother looking at my internet usage, if it means they catch the baddies once in a while. I would consider myself the average internet user, I look at sites about my hobbies, the latest news and TV guides, and a little ( adult ) porn occasionally , so I have nothing to hide or be ashamed about ( well, maybe the porn ). I have no interest in hate sites, racism, religious extremists, violence and child porn. I have no plans or desire to cause harm to my fellow human beings.

If big brother used the internet to catch someone planning to bomb a plane, then I'm more than happy for them to do that, and they can scan my internet usage as much as they need. Its like the security checks we have at airports these days, I'm more than happy to have myself and my luggage searched if it means my flight will be safe from terrorist's.

Thats my view anyway.

Glenn
The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now.
JAQ
 
VK4AYQ
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Posted: 05:40am 12 Jun 2010
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Hi All

I agree with Glenn on the safety aspect of the censorship and the ability to catch the occasional baddy out there, and it is a good idea for pedophiles and their associated Webb sites to be monitored as the ABC guy got caught in the Webb {innocent until proven guilty}.

The thing that worries me about it it may start out with honorable intentions but be put to other nefarious uses as the powers that be are inclined to do.

Also there is the possibility of reverse engineering to obtain a conviction at the hands of less than honorable public serpents and as we know that there is plenty of those out there.

Am I worried? No because I am to old to care about the corruption both sides of the legal divide.

All the best

Bob
Foolin Around
 
Downwind

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Joined: 09/09/2009
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Posted: 10:56am 12 Jun 2010
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I agree fully with you Bob.
Its not what we agreed to except its what it develops into.

My vote is not allow it in the first place, not because i have anything to hide, but more to the point of loss of freedom, as we are consistently being controlled and monitored by big brother now, and one can only wonder what it will be like in the future.

If we surrender our rights and freedom for a minor few than we are becomming a controlled puppet of the government.

Look at China and other countries, at how all media platforms are controlled and ask yourself if we to should open the gate to this path.

Once the gate is open then there is no chance of ever closing it in the future.
It is a one off chance to keep our internet freedom or loose it for ever.

It will not stop terrorists or pedophiles, they will just move to another platform and the rest of us pays the price with our freedom for ever more, for a system of control by big brother.

My vote is ....NO WAY

Pete.
Sometimes it just works
 
vasi

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Posted: 08:02pm 12 Jun 2010
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That's nothing yet. They scan the Internet (and your PC) anyway. And your correspondence, e-mail and chat (and is legal - we have such a law approved and in use).
But when they will start punish you for your opinion then, that will be the end. Or the beginning of a dark era. And I think is not far away that day...

Vasi
Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton
Elvish name: Mablung Miriel
Beyound Arduino Lang
 
VK4AYQ
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Posted: 03:18am 13 Jun 2010
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Hi Pete & Vasi

It is of course the thin edge of the wedge and the noose has been tightening round our freedoms for years now and the sheeple are accepting it as it is done surreptitiously by big brother and the other interested parties both national and international.

As you say Vasi the dark error has started, a friend of mine was recruited by the federal police nearly five years ago to set up a serveylence network here in Australia
and what they watch you wouldn't want to know HI BRETT IF YOU ARE WATCHING.

I go with Pete on a no vote but it is futile as the serpents will do what they want regardless of the bleating of the sheeple.

On the brighter side I wont be around long enough to see it fully develop, the tech net gestapo will rule.

All the best

Bob

Foolin Around
 
MacGyver

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Joined: 12/05/2009
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Posted: 06:20am 13 Jun 2010
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Hi crew.

One of the high points of my hobby is sharing; I like to share. I like it that others can see what I'm doing; as long as it's my idea to share it. When sharing becomes "mandatory" it's another issue entirely.

I enlisted in the military during the Viet Nam ordeal and told myself that if I survived, I'd promise to myself to never again for any reason whatsoever take any crap off anyone! Surveillance is crap in my book!

Good or bad, it walks amongst us apparently and for the most part, outside of complaining, there's really nothing much we can do about it.

One thing we can do is get as much "mileage" out of it as we can and at least have a good belly laugh once in a while. By that, I mean give 'em something to keep track of.

For instance, whenever I'm "asked" what I do for a living, especially in an email, I state that I manufacture WMD. To anyone "watching" Internet traffic, that's going to be a flag on the play. If they only knew it stands for Windmills of Miniature Dimensions. I build toys!

I know its mischievous. I like causing trouble; who doesn't? It's a guy thing!



. . . . . Mac
Nothing difficult is ever easy!
Perhaps better stated in the words of Morgan Freeman,
"Where there is no struggle, there is no progress!"
Copeville, Texas
 
VK4AYQ
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Posted: 07:20am 13 Jun 2010
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Hi Mack

Good on you Mack give em {male bovine excrement} whenever possible. We all know that they are a bunch of Richard craniums so it s good to send a whole lot of 128 bit encrypted nursery rhymes to read to their children and it gives them something to do, instead of sitting and drinking coffee.

All the best

Bob
Foolin Around
 
dwyer
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Joined: 19/09/2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 574
Posted: 01:27pm 13 Jun 2010
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Hi Guys
Let me have my say.
A couple year ago I got a phone call from my Credit Unions to let me know the Australian Federal Police have contacted my Credit Unions branch to let me know that my online banking account had to be cancelled because it had been hacked by another person. Luckily, none of my money was missing. So that was good however as You see, AFP still can access my bank account, Computer, e-mail address so now I refuse to go back to online banking. Centrelink is like Big Brother, so is the Tax Department, AFP, Banks, Private Credit Organization that keep all finance information data and personal details still can be access by anyone but cost you money as l have done this before during on my infringement of my patent copy right design that has be stolen by other company.
One more question if all of you remember many years ago ex Prime Minster Malcolm Fraser warn everyone put you money under your bed mattress if Labour party win. Malcolm was right. This end of the Forum for me now as let talk go back a other topic is Homegrown Power is my hobby is playing with Windmill and other intesting stuff that l enjoyed.

Dwyer
 
VK4AYQ
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Posted: 09:46am 14 Jun 2010
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Hi All

I think Dwyer has the point, time to stop being paranoid about the pubic serpents and their actions, as being a pensioner I don't have enough money in the bank to make it worth stealing, and as for centerlink they look up your kilt whenever they want, but remember they have a job to do to stop fraud and enforce stupid legislation put in place by pubic serpents, but we should be happy that we get something in our retirement rather than nothing as is the case in many parts of the world.

Remember the rabbit principal, they only get shot at when above ground and out in the open.

Has anybody had any success with a MPPT that is suitable for a windmill and solar applications and not a PSU derivative?

All the best

Bob
Foolin Around
 
vasi

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Posted: 12:04pm 14 Jun 2010
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Believe me or not, being self sufficient or having your own energy resources is another kind of "forbidden" politic .

Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton
Elvish name: Mablung Miriel
Beyound Arduino Lang
 
MacGyver

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Posted: 04:58pm 18 Jun 2010
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vasi

I believe you; I remember the Chauchescu days!



. . . . . Mac
Nothing difficult is ever easy!
Perhaps better stated in the words of Morgan Freeman,
"Where there is no struggle, there is no progress!"
Copeville, Texas
 
Perry

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Posted: 08:41pm 18 Jun 2010
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I'm not too worried about the government knowing my internet browsing history. I just want to keep my wife from finding it out.

Perry
 
vasi

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Posted: 08:50pm 18 Jun 2010
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  Perry said   I'm not too worried about the government knowing my internet browsing history. I just want to keep my wife from finding it out.

Perry


He he, that's another strong reason why the gov. must not read your browser history .
Because you are afraid, you become blackmailed. You are recruited

Just kidding...

Vasi

P.S., use "Start private browsing" option from "Tools" menu in Firefox and your wife will have no history to see.
Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton
Elvish name: Mablung Miriel
Beyound Arduino Lang
 
vasi

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Posted: 09:13pm 18 Jun 2010
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  MacGyver said   vasi

I believe you; I remember the Chauchescu days!



. . . . . Mac


I'm still mad about that. Not people changed Ceausescu, but his own Security. The people was to scared to do something. But the children were not.
A vast percentage of population had been recruited by Securitate to spy and to report any kind of word against the regime. And today they are still active!!! And the entire network is kept in secret (even today, if you can believe it is possible).

I was a child then, and I was punished and oppressed by teachers at school about my beliefs. I am well known at my school in my town as the only child which discovered an informer between teachers and then warned all teachers about him. My best friend was recruited by that teacher to spy on me and to know about what my parents talked. Now, everyone is a believer. I am tired of hypocrisy and cowardice. And about the teachers (they are intellectuals) attitude on those days. I suppose they had to protect us, not to sell us!!! But enough of this...

It is sad for me to see that the Occidental world (the captitalism) today is very tempted to apply that sort of control on their people. I can say screw is tightened.

Vasi



Edited by vasi 2010-06-20
Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton
Elvish name: Mablung Miriel
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petanque don
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Posted: 12:01pm 19 Jun 2010
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Silly thought with so many people surfing so may sites how will they find the suspect ones??

Or will it just create a market for encryption software?


 
MacGyver

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Posted: 04:28pm 19 Jun 2010
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[Quote=vasi]The people was to scared to do something.

It's funny you should mention this. My Romanian friend here in USA fits the bill to a tee. If I even say the word "Ceausescu" he tightens up. His pupils go to little pin points and he begins to get nervous. His speech is halted and he speaks in short bursts. It's scary!

I can see first hand how much terror this man and his regime created. My friend is 7 years younger than myself and even though Ceausescu is long gone, his reign of terror is alive and well.



. . . . . Mac







Nothing difficult is ever easy!
Perhaps better stated in the words of Morgan Freeman,
"Where there is no struggle, there is no progress!"
Copeville, Texas
 
vasi

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Posted: 08:30pm 19 Jun 2010
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Yes, "alive and well".

ah, now we have democracy, bicameral parliament and anyone can start his own business but...

how you will call the country which still consider his own national heroes as traitors because they once stood against Moscow, Bolshevism and communism? This is my real unit of measurement!!!

Vasi Edited by vasi 2010-06-21
Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton
Elvish name: Mablung Miriel
Beyound Arduino Lang
 
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