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Forum Index : Off topic archive. : Carbon Tax ....
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| brucedownunder2 Guru  Joined: 14/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1548 |
How's your take on this ???? This makes interesting reading. Professor Ian Plimer could not have said it better! If you've read his book you will agree, this is a good summary. Australians showed sense in resisting the govt pressure to agree to a carbon tax before the Copenhagen Conference - which seems years ago now Are you sitting down? Okay, here's the bombshell. The current volcanic eruption going on in Iceland, since its first spewing of volcanic ash has, in just FOUR DAYS, NEGATED EVERY SINGLE EFFORT you have made in the past five years to control CO2 emissions on our planet - all of you. Of course you know about this evil carbon dioxide that we are trying to suppress - it’s that vital chemical compound that every plant requires to live and grow and to synthesize into oxygen for us humans and all animal life. I know, I know.... (group hug)...it's very disheartening to realize that all of the carbon emission savings you have accomplished while suffering the inconvenience and expense of: driving Prius hybrids, buying fabric grocery bags, sitting up till midnight to finish your kid's "The Green Revolution" science project, throwing out all of your non-green cleaning supplies, using only two squares of toilet paper, putting a brick in your toilet tank reservoir, selling your SUV and speedboat, vacationing at home instead of Bali, nearly getting hit every day on your bicycle, replacing all of your $1 light bulbs with $10 light bulbs ...well, all of those things you have done have all gone down the tubes in just four days. The volcanic ash emitted into the Earth's atmosphere in just four days - yes - FOUR DAYS ONLY by that volcano in Iceland, has totally erased every single effort you have made to reduce the evil beast, carbon. And there are around 200 active volcanoes on the planet spewing out this crud any one time - EVERY DAY. Oh, I don't really want to rain on your parade too much, but I should mention that when the volcano Mt Pinatubo erupted in the Philippines in 1991, it spewed out more greenhouse gases into the atmosphere than the entire human race had emitted in its entire YEARS on earth. Yes folks, Mt Pinatubo was active for over one year - think about it. Of course I shouldn't spoil this touchy-feely tree-hugging moment and mention the effect of solar and cosmic activity and the well-recognized 800-year global heating and cooling cycle, which keep happening, despite our completely insignificant efforts to affect climate change. I'm so sorry. And I do wish I had a silver lining to this volcanic ash cloud but the fact of the matter is that the bush fire season across the western USA and Australia this year alone will negate your efforts to reduce carbon in our world for the next two to three years. And it happens every year. Just remember that your government just tried to impose a whopping carbon tax on you on the basis of the bogus “human-caused” climate change scenario. Hey, isn’t it interesting how they don’t mention “Global Warming” any more, but just “Climate Change” - you know why? It’s because the planet has COOLED by 0.7 degrees in the past century and these global warming bull artists got caught with their pants down. And just keep in mind that you might yet have an Emissions Trading Scheme - that whopping new tax - imposed on you, that will achieve absolutely nothing except make you poorer. It won’t stop any volcanoes from erupting, that’s for sure. But hey, relax, give the world a hug and have a nice day! PS: I wonder if Iceland is buying carbon offsets? . Try and have a nice day Bruce Bushboy |
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| grub Senior Member  Joined: 27/11/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 169 |
In light of that info, the pollies will have to use the Jo Blo comeback "Now just you don't worry about that", and also "Trust me, I am a politician, would I lie to you?" Al Gore's "doco" had me until the end where he started waffling on about "carbon trading" and I thought then, "crap this is only an infomerical". Just remember folks, whenever a pollie is pushing something, it isn't really true and you should believe the opposite.javascript:AddSmileyIcon('  ') |
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| brucedownunder2 Guru Joined: 14/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1548 |
Dunno, I'd have to see a very clear example of my dollar making things better. No spin ,,just purely how my dollar is going to help . I've been on this planet for 66 years , bought up on dirt roads, fishing for lobbies in the bush waterholes, chopping down trees for cloths line props , burning huge campfires at scout camps. We had a great up bringing, no one even knew what a Carbon thingo was ,,OH , unless you were like me and pulled the head off the old sidevalve morris a40 for a de-coke. I just don't trust most of the stuff coming out of these "do-gooders" pollies and others... You just watch what happens to all the so-called promises that these leaches have made in the last 7 weeks ,,,just watch the excuses ...bet ya.. Bruce Bushboy |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Bruce I enclose the comments I sent to Tony Abbot along with your contribution, maybe he has a few moments to read it, if not well we tried. All the best Bob Hi Tony If per chance you manage to beat the witch of the west, here is something you should study up on and get right before imposing more taxes on the already overtaxed Australian people, forget the scare mongers and scientific grand-standers spouting male bovine excrement for the media, and you guys on the hill. Insert: How's your take on this ???? This makes interesting reading. Professor Ian Plimer could not have said it better! If you've read his book you will agree, this is a good summary. Australians showed sense in resisting the govt pressure to agree to a carbon tax before the Copenhagen Conference - which seems years ago now Are you sitting down? Okay, here's the bombshell. The current volcanic eruption going on in Iceland, since its first spewing of volcanic ash has, in just FOUR DAYS, NEGATED EVERY SINGLE EFFORT you have made in the past five years to control CO2 emissions on our planet - all of you. Of course you know about this evil carbon dioxide that we are trying to suppress - it's that vital chemical compound that every plant requires to live and grow and to synthesize into oxygen for us humans and all animal life. I know, I know.... (group hug)...it's very disheartening to realize that all of the carbon emission savings you have accomplished while suffering the inconvenience and expense of: driving Prius hybrids, buying fabric grocery bags, sitting up till midnight to finish your kid's "The Green Revolution" science project, throwing out all of your non-green cleaning supplies, using only two squares of toilet paper, putting a brick in your toilet tank reservoir, selling your SUV and speedboat, vacationing at home instead of Bali, nearly getting hit every day on your bicycle, replacing all of your $1 light bulbs with $10 light bulbs ...well, all of those things you have done have all gone down the tubes in just four days. The volcanic ash emitted into the Earth's atmosphere in just four days - yes - FOUR DAYS ONLY by that volcano in Iceland, has totally erased every single effort you have made to reduce the evil beast, carbon. And there are around 200 active volcanoes on the planet spewing out this crud any one time - EVERY DAY. Oh, I don't really want to rain on your parade too much, but I should mention that when the volcano Mt Pinatubo erupted in the Philippines in 1991, it spewed out more greenhouse gases into the atmosphere than the entire human race had emitted in its entire YEARS on earth. Yes folks, Mt Pinatubo was active for over one year - think about it. Of course I shouldn't spoil this touchy-feely tree-hugging moment and mention the effect of solar and cosmic activity and the well-recognized 800-year global heating and cooling cycle, which keep happening, despite our completely insignificant efforts to affect climate change. I'm so sorry. And I do wish I had a silver lining to this volcanic ash cloud but the fact of the matter is that the bush fire season across the western USA and Australia this year alone will negate your efforts to reduce carbon in our world for the next two to three years. And it happens every year. Just remember that your government just tried to impose a whopping carbon tax on you on the basis of the bogus "human-caused" climate change scenario. Hey, isn't it interesting how they don't mention "Global Warming" any more, but just "Climate Change" - you know why? It's because the planet has COOLED by 0.7 degrees in the past century and these global warming bull artists got caught with their pants down. And just keep in mind that you might yet have an Emissions Trading Scheme - that whopping new tax - imposed on you, that will achieve absolutely nothing except make you poorer. It won't stop any volcanoes from erupting, that's for sure. But hey, relax, give the world a hug and have a nice day! PS: I wonder if Iceland is buying carbon offsets? In saying all the above it is still important to look at alternate energy for the future as there will come a time when the people will prefer to have a clean source of energy. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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Downwind Guru Joined: 09/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2333 |
Relax guys....we have Bob Brown running the show...cough..cough.. splutter.. We will all get a tree hugging tax soon, although we are safe on the ass kissing tax now because the Greens would have to pay heavily for that. I feel its got little to do with the enviroment, and more to do with chest beating and how they can sugar coat a new tax to make us swallow it. Concrete is the biggest man made single producer of CO2 and we havent banned or over taxed that as yet. The article above i think is a very good dose of reality, and shows we are never in control of this planet and never will be as mother nature will always win. Pete. Sometimes it just works |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Pete I agree we are insignificant in the overall scheme of things, if all the ants in the world farted at once it would make more difference than us. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| petanque don Senior Member Joined: 02/08/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 212 |
So because you have no control over volcanos you should not need to bother to do the right thing by endeavouring to be gentle on the environment. Because you have no control on trees on the side of the road and many road conditions like the weather you should not need to bother to do the right thing by endeavouring to drive safely. Because you have no control on if you get cancer you should not need to bother to do the right thing by trying to be healthy (such as giving up smoking). Perhaps it is all too hard and you should just suicide now. Natural emissions are an irrelevant fact because we have no control over them perhaps you should argue the all the ash from the volcano may have offset a lot of the warming from the carbon dioxide. Carbon dioxide is a waste product that appears to have a damaging effect on the environment should producers of this carbon dioxide be subsidised and encouraged by being able to dispose of this waste product for free? If you can’t dispose of solid and liquid waste for no charge should you be able to dispose of gaseous waste for free? |
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Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5116 |
I generally try to stay out of these sort of posts, but I do agree with petanque don. Becoming a green society is actually pretty easy to do. Yes it means change, but not big change. Jobs will be lost, but others created. Industry and commerce will need to change, just as it did during the industrial revolution and more recently the computer revolution. Maybe the governments approach isn't the best, but its a start. 20 years ago no one was talking about global warming, today its a hot topic. We are even starting to talk about population control, and about time too, its a finite space we live in after all. Its a fact the globe is warming, at a rate higher than previous global warming events. Are we the reason? I dont know, but I think its possible. There's not a lot of atmosphere above out heads. Most of our atmosphere is in the first 10km above sea level, above that we die, the ozone layer is about 25km up, and 100km up we're in outer space. Its a pretty thin layer we live in. Yes the earth does have natural events that release massive amounts of dust and CO2, sometimes with dramatic results, like the Krakatoa explosion in the 1300's that sent most of Europe into famine for 10 years. Given a chance the atmosphere does recover, thanks to the oceans and vegetation. But most of the trees are now gone, and we are releasing the CO2 that was captured over millions of years, is less than a few hundred years. When I do the maths that I understand, I get worried. From my back yard, everything looks fine, but if I look past my back yard, into other countries pollution problems and irreversible damage we have done, I get worried. The way I see it, reducing our CO2 emissions is insurance. I have insurance on my car and house, cost about $60 per week, $3100 a year, maybe $250,000 over my life time. I will never need it, no one will steal my car, and no storm will blow my house away, its a complete waste of my money, but I still have it, just in case. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Petanque don I understand what you are getting at, but the thing is that there are natural cycles of waste disposal on the earth, where things solid, and gasses are constantly changing in state and composition at achieve a natural cycle. This natural cycle can be put out of balance by the actions of mankind as a whole, but put further out of balance by natural forces acting in the enviroment, these actions can be cumulative to worsen the effect, or happen on a random chance cycle or a earth cycle over a period of time. The point of panic that is being instigated by government and commercial interests, is merely to use the occasion for further control of the populace by misinformation and innuendo, by this they are able to impose more Taxes and Controls on the populace in the name of a solution of the problem. Government uses taxes as a solution to all problems be it alcohol, smoking or speeding etc. And has it worked, NO is the loud resounding answer. The solution is to phase in clean technology across the board, but the government isn't smart enough to do this, that's why all of us are doing what we can trying to better our environment and offer a lead example hopefully for others to follow. This can only happen by a dedicated effort on our part so when we have low cost electricity bills it is really noticeable, or when we are the only house in the street that doesn't have a blackout for a few days after a storm. Your point of us killing ourselves is right off the mark and shows that you have the wrong handle on what we are talking about. Its no good worrying about whats going on with the world, as we cannot as one person or group of persons solve the problem, just as the government also cant solve the problem, instead of worrying, because worrying wont fix anything, we work in our own little ways to help the environment and encourage others to do the same. As you suggest all things do have a cost, the problem the cost is always magnified and passed down the chain of consumers to their detriment, often without any real change to the status of the original problem. The way that is proposed to solve the problem at the moment is like burning down the house to get rid of the termites in the window sill. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
HI Glenn I agree with your points of view in large, and that's why I have pushed clean energy for the last forty years because it makes good sense to do so for the environment, and our own well-being. That is why I am here at this forum as it is a light shining in the darkness. However I take your example of insurance, as a passing of the buck, to an extent, yes you are protecting yourself but in a passive way not an active way, that to me is like supporting a flawed solution by government, and feeling good about it, in contrast to taking positive action yourself to lessen the risk or solve the problem, and feeling better about it. Look at the freon debacle and the truth behind that as an example. I look at the whole picture of the chain of events proposed by government and see no solution in it, while the tax to solve the problem mentality exists. China has made a commitment to reduce pollution, but in the next breath said that there will be a five fold increase in pollution over the next 30 years because of growth in the economy, they must be kidding. On the population problem, in Australia the birth rate last time I checked was 1.63 children per couple, that's negative growth , so much so that the government has to import people to look after us oldies in the future and pay more taxes of course. I wont get started on global warming, suffice to say that the record in the rocks indicates there has been many hot and cold periods over the time earth has supported life as we know it. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| windlight Guru Joined: 03/03/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 331 |
hey Bruce, who gave you a license to preach reality? don't you know that's not what people want to hear, they need a cause to rally behind. OK you have 9 years wisdom on me but like you I have seen it all before, I remember drought like we have it now(in the west)and I remember far worse droughts, I remember somewhere back in the 70's our relies from a stable grain growing area bringing their entire sheep flock down to a bush block my family owned, just to keep them alive, that was for two year running. My brother and I rode our motor bikes back into the hills to find an old timber mill town site, we followed the old railway formation and found it and a Shepard with a few thousand sheep (there was a lake there). I don't worry about the atmosphere, it is the ground we all need to take care of, it all starts there. We should all do our best, individual and big business but carbon tax causes me to cringe, and as always I ask who has something to gain (financially ) here, clearly not me. Unfortunately governments of all persecutions are driven by self interest groups (read who writes the biggest cheque). While our cities continue to expand onto (in the case of Perth) food growing areas onto smaller and smaller blocks (where do the kids play) install power hungry air conditioners because the houses are so closely stacked there is no air circulation ( to take advantage of the great sea breeze), around 87% of Western Australia's population live in the greater metropolitan area of Perth there is little hope. The greater question is how will Australia feed it's self into the future, are you (any body) happy to eat food from China, chances are you already do. Sorry I do not believe in climate change as put forward by academics looking for grants, yes our climate does change both by natural occurrence as Bruce put up and natural cycles, unfortunately most of the loudest voices are not old enough to have past experience or the ability to read about the past. Just about here Allan falls off his soap box, too old to be of any relevance... allan "I like this place and willingly could waste my time in it" - (Act II, Scene IV). |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5116 |
Yeah I think we should avoid this sort of discussion on the forum. The global warming debate, religion, politics, whatever, it achieves nothing other than pissing off other forum members. We've all made up our minds about these things long ago, and no post on a forum, or a link to a article by professor so and so, is going to change anyone's mind. Its a waste of a post and creates tension on the forum. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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