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Forum Index : Off topic archive. : Oil Crisis
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| MrBungle Newbie  Joined: 07/10/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 34 |
Did anyone catch the story on Catalyst last week about Peak Oil? I just caught the repeat this morning. Very Interesting! It seems many experts, including the oil giants, beleive we are now definatelly running out of oil reserves. Every oil producing country has hit their peak output, either now or in the past. The US hit peak output in the 70's!! hence their reliance on the Middle East to make up short falls, like us. This means that now, most oil pumps are pumping up water, with a percentage of oil, instead of 100% oil. Some pumps are at 1% oil content! The only unknown is the Middle East, because, well, they're not telling. But if the trend is to be belived, they're probably peaking or have peaked too. Many in the know believe there will be oil starvation in the next decade. There are other sources of oil, like Shale and Tar Sand, but these have been left alone due to their low grade content, which needs more refining: read cost. All this means petrol is gonna get way way more expensive. I would like to get in early and start on an electric car, kinda like the guy from Margaret River and his Suzuki Mighty Boy, featured in a recent issue of 'Renew' magazine. So, what I'm mostly interested in, is if the cost of solar cells and storage etc going to reduce due to increased production, or increase due to companies profiting on the increased demand? I'm really interested in using the Li-poly's I use for my model aircraft as a power source for a car instead of the Lead-acids that are the norm, but they are currently very expensive. Theres also Fuel Cells, which also are still very expensive. So should I wait for the cost of batteries to come down, or get 'em now and beat the (possible) rush? Hmmmmm..... What do you reckon of the future? |
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Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5116 |
Yeah I saw that show, very interresting. I also remember watching a TV program on the ABC a couple of years ago about backyard inventors. There was this fella who built a steam powered car up in north Queensland I think. He was a brilliant man, and poured most of his sucessful machining business's income into the project. He converted a 60's model Ford Falcon to steam with a 2 cylinder V motor and flash boiler. The thing had more power and torque than the old 6 cylinder petrol motor it replaced. It drove well, and only took a couple of minutes to fire up on a cold morning. Fuel was almost anything: gas, oil, kero. He drove it around the country trying to get support from the government. No luck so he took it to the USA, drove it from one side of the country to the other, but none of the local car companies were interrested. It sent him broke, I think he may have lost his business but I could be wrong. I do believe the car still exists today. You can't beat fuel as a power source. It packs a lot of power for something so light and compact. Electric is good for city driving, but will never have the range of fuel out on the open road. And in Australia it may be 300km between service stations. ( 2002, Christmass weekend, Mackay to Rocky, 340km and not a single service station was open! ). I agree we cant rely on petrol for much longer. Maybe its time for a real price hike. Other fuels are available. We have a lot of natural gas in Australia ( not including cows ). And stirling engine technology is resurfacing after a hundred years. But we need to start looking at converting to these other fuels and electric drives now. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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Chris Senior Member  Joined: 12/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 146 |
I really like the idea of hydrogen as a fuel. I think its just such a simple idea and can still use all our existing internal combustion technology with it too... I want to build a hydrogen fuel cell in the next couple of weeks. See how it turns out. Then see if i can get a little motor running of it. I think governments and car manufacturers are reluctant to choose steam as the new power because they probably see it as a step backwards technology wise. When its not really. |
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ozetrade Regular Member  Joined: 15/10/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 59 |
Hey again, Always interesting topic when it comes up. I've been around long enough to hear these claims 3 times now. Everytime I've seen the price of fuel double and drop marginally after the dust settles. Scare tactics to increase profit? probably...but then again it's bound to run out one day - but I think not today. On a lighter note Some real interest claims for fuelless engines and power from good old mother earth.
Greg Just North of Brisbane in Redcliffe OZeTrade.net |
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| dwyer Guru  Joined: 19/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 574 |
Hi Glen About Steam car as l do remmber in my time as young lad The steam ford falcon car was from Melbourne was loclate at Baywater as same time as Premier Henry Bolt of victoria had no intesting helping Pichard steam ford Falcon and l would like to know where is the Pichard steam car or the owner Anyone out there know what happern ??/ |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5116 |
I found this on the ABC web site, looks like your right about it coming from Melbourne.. "Meanwhile in Melbourne, Mike has a stake in Ted Pritchard's revolutionary steam engine. In the 1970's Ted built a steam-powered car that made headlines in Australia. When the US became interested, Ted and the humble Ford Falcon were flown to the States but no major investors came on board to take the project further. After years of trying to get interest in the engine and on the verge of bankruptcy, Ted sadly abandoned the project. 30 years later and with an oil crisis looming, there's renewed interest in the technology. With Mike's help, Ted may yet live to see his dream come true." I wonder where Ted and his car are now, he would be an interresting guy to talk to. A friend of mine remembers the car when it passed through Mackay. When stoped at traffic lights the motor wasnt running and the flash boiler was on "Low Heat", just enough to keep the system pressurised. Pressing the throttle controlled the steam valves and boiler fuel burn. It drove very smooth and had heaps of go. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5116 |
I found it!!!!!! This is the car, and dont forget to check out the rest of the web site. Glenn
The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| Chris Senior Member Joined: 12/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 146 |
ozetrade, it doesnt really tell you how any of them work. Have you ever bought those plans? If you have, how'd it turn out? Its very interesting. |
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| ozetrade Regular Member Joined: 15/10/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 59 |
Hi Chris, Haven't bought any plans. Just thought it was an interesting site with some pretty "out there" claims - some comprehendable. Maybe a sham, but at least if you bought a plan or two and they didn't work, it's no great loss. Greg Just North of Brisbane in Redcliffe OZeTrade.net |
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| Chris Senior Member Joined: 12/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 146 |
Yeah i was thinking that too ozetrade. They arnt to overly priced like most other things on the internet.  If only i had a paypal account. 
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5116 |
I had a look at that web site and a lot of those projects look like perpetual motion machines. I hate these sort of discussions, but they need to run their course. My belief, save you money, dont get the plans. They dont work. I have a freind who is a auto electrician. He says at least once a month he gets some bright spark come in with plans to connect a car alternator to a 12v electric motor. They then want to spinn it up fast enough so the alternator makes enough power to drive the electric motor, which in turn is driving the alternator. The "device" will then run on its own. Then you could tap into it for free power. They dont work, everytime energy is transfered from one type to another there are losses. If perpetual motion machines worked, I could lift myself off the ground by standing in a bucket and lifting up on the handle! Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| ozetrade Regular Member Joined: 15/10/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 59 |
Greg Just North of Brisbane in Redcliffe OZeTrade.net |
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| MrBungle Newbie Joined: 07/10/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 34 |
Heya Glenn, I remember that series about backyard inventors now, I only caught one episode and it was the one with the steam car, I was impressed! Amazing guy and machine. Will have a look at that link. Greg, I remember previous warnings of oil running out too, but the common thing with each one, is the date of 'runnout' keeps getting shorter. The old warnings used to say 'x' decades of oil left, now the 'experts' are saying A decade, maybe two. Not completely running out of oil, but dramatic shortages. The other very interesting thing this time, as mentioned on Catalyst, is that its now some of the big oil giants that are saying it, which has never happened before. Normally it's the independent experts, like the scientests and analysts. As for the online plans, these are no different than the plans that used to get advertised(and probably still are) in American magazines like 'Popular Science' and 'Popular Mechanics'. Adverts for death rays(!!), amazing levitating machines, lasers etc etc. Some of these plans are okay, while some are only good to light a fire with. A perfect example is one of the episodes of Mythbusters. Adam bought a plan from one of those plan companies for a build-your-own vertical take off flying machine, remember? Do you also remember what he said(and which Jamie had a lot more to say) about the plans? They were useless, basicaly sketches with very very little detail, and all the info it did give was common-sense stuff. Some plans do work though, I know of people having successfuly built lasers from plans from the same plan sites, but not without a lot more research at a library and significant amount of modification. See 'Sam's Laser FAQ' website for examples. (awesome site) Perpetual motion, its amazing that some people still think its possible! Hehe, the same 'bucket' analogy was used by the Guy with the electric Mighty-Boy that I mentioned in my original post. The magazine had a short FAQ section in the article, I'll quote: "Q: Can you run a generator from the wheels to recharge the batteries as you are driving? A: Can you stand in a bucket and lift yourself up?" When I read that I was laughing for hours. Simon |
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| MrBungle Newbie Joined: 07/10/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 34 |
Oh, the perpetual motion thing just reminded me of something. I used to race electric Radio controlled cars competitively. These are top-end cars not the 'toys' from toyworld or toys-r-us, but are amazing bits of technology, full of carbon fibre, kevlar and very light metals like magnesium and titanium. Very expensive too, a few friend of mine reckons they could have bought a house with what they spent on racing. I never got that serious. These cars also had one very interesting feature. The electronic speed controllers(throttle) have regenerative braking. When the driver applies the brakes, the controller directs the current generated by the motor to the batteries to recharge them. It's not super efficient but it's enough to really make a difference. All races are 5 mins long, so the extra energy saved/regained is used by gearing the cars for a higher speed down straights or for more torque off the line and out of corners, depending on the track. R/C cars have been doing this for decades, and I've now heard that some of the full-size electric car controllers also do this. I also remember yet another show on the ABC, about a couple of Aussie inventors that made a similar system, but for petrol/diesel driven vehicles. Basically, a pump is mounted in the driveline of the car/truck, usually midway in the tailshaft. This pumps(something, I don't remember what) from one tank, into another, under huge pressure when the driver applies the brakes. Braking is a huge waste of energy. (good for safety tho huh?) Then, when the driver goes to accelerate from a stop(lights etc), the pressurised ? drives the pump, which now acts as an auxilary motor, which in turn drives the tailshaft. Therefore the main engine doesn't need to generate the same amount of power, or consume the same amount of fuel, for the same acceleration. Cool huh? Apparently it does work, and has noticable fuel savings for a low cost unit, I don't know any figures tho. The inventors asked families in their local community(somewhere in NSW I think) to invest in the idea, almost the entire town did, they made prototypes, the US army and navy got involved(I think they are driving a Humvee fitted with it around NSW) and apparently FEDEX is very very interested. If it drops fuel consumption by even a few percent, imagine how much money the entire FEDEX fleet would save! It's believed the whole town will end up millionairs! Simo |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5116 |
Thats a clever idea. A few years ago I was part of a team putting together a solar car to race in the World Solar Challenge. The race from Darwin to Adeliade. We looked into regenerative shock absorbers. They were basically a big coil and a bunch of magnets moving up and down with the vehicle suspension travel. As the road was so smooth, and the car so light, there would have been next to nill suspension travel, so we would not have made any real power. Unless of course we could convice the driver to bounce up and down in the seat as he drove. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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MacGyver Guru Joined: 12/05/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 1329 |
IMO the "shortage" of oil is all a marketing ploy. I live in southern California and when I was a kid (I'm 60) there were oil wells every ten feet. The oil companies (Standard Oil, et al) found that if they shut down production, they had a reason to raise the price. This whole shortage thing is about profits and money. There was an interesting book that came out in the early '80s called "The Oil Un-Crisis" that pretty much said the same thing. As for hydrogen production, check out this on-going chat on this forum: http://www.thebackshed.com/windmill/forum1/forum_posts.asp? TID=894&PN=1&TPN=5 Well, that's my 2-cents! Nothing difficult is ever easy! Perhaps better stated in the words of Morgan Freeman, "Where there is no struggle, there is no progress!" Copeville, Texas |
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if you want something to play with, have a look at this site. Held my attention for a while. 
I love this little analogy....it certainly puts things back in perspective.