 Notice. New forum software under development. It's going to miss a few functions and look a bit ugly for a while, but I'm working on it full time now as the old forum was too unstable. Couple days, all good. If you notice any issues, please contact me. |
Forum Index : Off topic archive. : Trading Post renamed to Classifieds
| Author | Message | ||||
Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5036 |
I recieved an email from Sensis today, pasted below... Dear Glenn Sensis produces the iconic Australian Yellow™ directories and Yellow Pages® directories. Sensis also produces the White Pages® directories, Trading Post® classifieds, and the Whereis® and Citysearch® online resources. Sensis has worked hard over the years to build and develop our products so they are the first place that Australians look when they need to find information; whether it is to find the address of a local hairdresser, the phone number of an emergency plumber, reviews of a new restaurant, a map of the city, or how they can find a great deal on a second-hand car. We see on your website at http://thebackshed.com/Windmill/forum1/default.asp?C=4 that you provide a service which you call “Trading Post”. The words “Trading Post” are a registered trade mark of which Sensis is an authorised licensee. We expect that the use of this registered trade mark is inadvertent and we appreciate the community nature of your website however, in order to avoid confusion or any damage to the Trading Post® mark, Sensis requests that the reference to “Trading Post” on www.thebackshed.com be changed to something like “Classifieds”, “Trading”, “Bulletin Board” or “Pin Board” for example. If you have any comments or questions in relation to our request please contact me on the details below. Kind regards, Claire Hunt Paralegal / IP Assistant Sensis Pty Ltd Legal & Regulatory 222 Lonsdale St Ph: 03 8653 7354 Fax: 03 8653 7970 So I had to rename the section previously called "Trading Post" to "Classifieds". How bloody pathetic of Sensis to enforce this sort of thing on a small non-commercial personal interrest web site. What a friggen joke! Searching google, you find the words "Trading Post" all over the internet, that should keep the Sensis legal department busy for the next few years. In fact, google found 16,600,000 matches to "trading post"! Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
||||
| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5036 |
I wonder if I could get away with the words "Trading post", note no capital on the second word, so its not a name of anything, but it is a place where you can "post" "trading" messages. "Trading post" is defined on Wikipedia as a place where people go to trade, its descriptive, not a name. The trademarking of non-name description words is bit of a gray area in Law. Some of you may be aware of the Ugg boot case. Ugg boots are, in Australia, a term used to describe a boot made from sheep skin. An American firm trade marked the words "Ugg Boot" to use on their own range of sheepskin boots, and then tried to stop several small Australian outlets from selling anything called an Ugg boot. The court cases went on for years, eventually settling out of court. I think trade marking descriptive words like "Trading Post", "Yellow Pages", etc is very un-Australian. What do you think? What other examples are there out there of this sort of practice. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
||||
Gill Senior Member  Joined: 11/11/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 669 |
Exactly, just as 'general store', 'butcher shop' and the list goes on, describe the business type so to a trading post describes a premises where items/produce are Bought AND Sold. Second Hand Store is a trading post for Used Items and is not the same. The Google hits are indicative of this common usage. Let me see them take on Marvel Comics, I think it is, because Phantom comics often has the bad blokes going to the Trading Post to buy more guns and ammo or such like. It is the intimidation by threat of legal action that induces people to change not the right or wrong of it, and they know it. This is typical of civil liberties abuses.      
I'll leave it at that whilst still on topic. Sorry I don't know of similar cases. Gill Edit: Just a thought, If they have Googled to find users of their alledged trade mark, so to this same search would indicate other Aussie sites they may have approached with the same intimidation under the initial soft sell approach. It really depends if you want to make a firm stand or just offer a little resistance? was working fine... til the smoke got out. Cheers Gill _Cairns, FNQ |
||||
| dazz Regular Member  Joined: 15/04/2008 Location: Posts: 78 |
It shows the power that some of these corporations wield. You can absolutely bet that if some average mug tried to register "trading post" they would get stomped on. It's exactly the reason businesses end up calling themselves kwik mart and not quick mart. I've been through the trademark registration process and you have to be very careful using common words in a trademark. Usually it gets stuffed back in your face for another try. It makes you wonder how and what they did to get trading post passed in the first place. |
||||
| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5036 |
Are the words "Trading Post" or "Yellow Pages" any different from say "Cooked Prawns" or "Ripe Tomato's". Someone could trademark and start a new business enterprise called "Ripe Tomato's", then do as Sensis have done, and demand anyone with any signage displaying "Ripe Tomato's" to remove or rename it. Is my situation any different? The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
||||
| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5036 |
I dont have the resources to take on Sensis, but I do want to let others know about their actions, thus the reason for this post. Google seaches this forum on a regular basis ( you can post a message here, and a couple of weeks later you can find it in Google ), so eventually a search for "Trading Post" and "Sensis" can lead here, which I think is doing Sensis more harm through bad advertising than if I left the "Classifieds" section as "Trading Post". Already over 80 people have read this posting. Many more will read it in the future and find out a little about the way Sensis works. Now dont get me wrong, the Sensis group offer some fine services. I'm just sharing a little insight into how their legal department works. Did you know the more times I mention Trading Post and Sensis, the higher Google will rank this page. The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
||||
| Feral Newbie  Joined: 03/12/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 39 |
What evidence did they provide to you that supports their allegation of Trading Post being a registered trade mark ? Have you done any research as to whether you were actualy in breach of the legislation and what do they actually have registered ? Why not capitise it and add the hyphen, then register it yourself if they have not registered these variations. TRADING-POST or The-Back-Shed-TRADING-POST I could provide some facts about this grubby vile dishonest organisation and how they published an advert in they yellow pages without the express written consent of the alleged client and then tried to sue in Court for $12,000.00 with a contract displaying forged signatures on the document. They commenced the action in Melbourne when the add related to a small security business in Cairns. Then after they got a biased decision from the corrupt public servant solicitor who pretended to be a Magistrate in a Qld-Magistrates-Court, the victim of their attempted fraud went to what he thought was the Qld Supreme Court to dispute the decision. Six hearings and three justices (pretend Judges) later after the victim of the attempted fraud, who just happened to be a Justice of the Peace (Qual), questioned the validity of the pretend Supreme court, Sensis walked away from the claim with all of their costs for the litigation, 30 grand + gone up in smoke. I will suggest that they cant do anything about you using the words anyhow as it is not related to any commercial enterprise that you run and they have no where to go to get a lawful vaild binding decision that can be enforced without your consent. They are grubs and only operate on bluff, threats and intimidation anyhow, that the LEGAL SYSTEM. All of the particulars are public knowledge and published on the Qld Courts site on the internet. Not all of the published information on the Court site is true and correct but the facts cant be changed by anybody. |
||||
GWatPE Senior Member Joined: 01/09/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2127 |
Hi Gizmo, I would just use Buy/Sell/Trade as the thread topic. Gordon. become more energy aware |
||||
| petanque don Senior Member Joined: 02/08/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 212 |
Perhaps you should be flattered that they feel threatened by you. Clearly they think the typical trading post customer must have an intelligence level such that they are unable to tell the difference between their commercial site and this renewable energy site. I must admit that since there have been free adds in the local paper on Fridays I have stoped using their publication. Logically they did not want you suggesting that if you want to buy something to go to the “Trading Post”. |
||||
| brucedownunder2 Guru  Joined: 14/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1548 |
I stopped looking at their publication because,,, now ,,it seems ,,you have to sign in and all that rubbish --like yahoo,all too complicated ,,before it was just google trading post and whammo ,,up she jumps Betcha some pimply faced geek has made it difficult as he thinks he's a smart arse and wants to upset old farts like me... I like the simple life Bushboy |
||||
Trev Guru Joined: 15/07/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 639 |
There are some ?? and some >>. We do not live in a free country. It does not matter which way we turn, somebody is out to bite. Not long ago, I lost around $12,000. Proline Pest Management of Mackay asked me to f/glass their personal pool. It was a concrete pool and only required a skin of glass. Apparently this requires a licence. Anyone can build any size boat, which is structural, and sell it for others to risk their lives, even out in open ocean waters, and not require a licence. Rod knew I would be outside the law. He got his pool re-surfaced for free and I had some fine to pay. This is just how some ## do their business. Back to the issue, Glenn, I bet someone has the word "classified" registered. There are "classified's" in the local paper. Trev @ drivebynature.com |
||||
| dwyer Guru Joined: 19/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 573 |
More bads news from Trading Post and Sensis from news com .au
Have your say! Comments are open on this article - add yours AS the popularity of auction giant eBay hangs in the balance, local competitors have started fighting amongst themselves. Australian auction websites OZtion and Trading Post, anticipating an exodus of users from the market leader, are locked in a stoush over the use of the word "free". In a strongly-worded letter from its legal team, Telstra-owned Sensis this week said OZtion's advertisements offering "free listing" were in breach of the Trade Practices Act. Sensis, which owns Trading Post, said that OZtion's "Zero cost listing" policy misled customers who were required to pay fees if they selected promotional services or if the item was sold. However, an OZtion spokesperson said the "bully boy" legal threat failed to note that Trading Post made similar claims for its own service. Related Coverage eBay fined $65 million for selling fake goods NEWS.com.au, 30 Jun 2008 Stolen military equipment being sold online NEWS.com.au, 11 Apr 2008 Reader's Comments: Apple launches App Store in time for iPhone NEWS.com.au, Reader's Comments: PlayStation 3 update crashes game consoles NEWS.com.au, Reader's Comments: Auction websites fight amongst themselves NEWS.com.au, "A quick review of a Sensis online auction site, the Trading Post, sees virtually the same terminology, and certainly the same meaning, used in a similar way when promoting their own services," said OZtion founder Phil Druce. Mr Druce said he was "mystified" by the apparently hypocritical attack. Both websites currently allow items to be listed for sale for free, but charge users a fee if the item is sold. Trading Post is offering free listings until the end of September, while OZtion's offer expires in mid-2009. When listing an item, both OZtion and Trading Post users can also have their listing promoted in bold text or a highlighted background colour for an additional charge. The service is optional. In its legal threat, Sensis requested that OZtion remove the "free listing" claims from its advertising and website or add a disclaimer within seven days. "Sensis will continue to monitor OZtion's activity with respect to advertising free listings and other marketing material, and reserves the right to take appropriate action if OZtion continues to make misleading representations about prices associated with its online auction site," said the letter from Sensis general counsel Niki Hantzis. The Trading Post site today was updated at about 2pm (AEST) to show a disclaimer accompanying its "free to list" details. It now displays an asterisk noting: "Pay on success. Basic listings only." Sensis spokeswoman Lucinda Tippett said the company was concerned about the use of the word "free" without a disclaimer, in line with the stance of the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission. "We take clear communications of our promotions to customers very seriously," she said. "Sensis has been very transparent in communicating our 'List for free' offer to our customers. Our 'List for free' offer clearly states that it applies to a Basic Auction & Buy Now listing and that sellers will pay a success fee on sale." Ms Tippett said any Trading Post promotion that was unclear about the fees incurred by a successful sale would be "remedied immediately". "Sensis is eager to ensure there is a level playing field for advertisers which in turn ensures our customers are not being mislead. In this regard we’ll continue to monitor our competitors advertising," she said. The two websites are competing for a larger share of the local online auction market after eBay Australia hit its users with unprecedented payment restrictions earlier this year. In proposed changes to the site's payment system, users would have been forced into the company's proprietary transaction service PayPal. eBay eventually backed down from the proposal after a backlash from users and a stoush with the consumer watchdog. Links OZtion – http://www.oztion.com.au/ Trading Post – http://www.tradingpost.com.au/ |
||||
 Print this page |
