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Forum Index : Off topic archive. : Linux rave

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CraziestOzzy

Senior Member

Joined: 11/07/2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 135
Posted: 09:24pm 21 Aug 2008
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During my recent pursuit of the Holy Grale...(a decent
finite element software that deals with a broad range of
magnetostatic problems in 2d and 3d)...I feel I have
been converted back to using a Linux OS again after a
few years abstinence.
How the system has changed from a few years back. Easier
to use and mostly all automatic installation...and get
this, I am running everything from a DVD disk. No more
reformats etc due to viruses etc..
Kewl as, so many free programs too that actually work :)
http://cr4.globalspec.com/member?u=25757

http://www.instructables.com/member/OzzyRoo/
 
oztules

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Joined: 26/07/2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 1686
Posted: 10:50pm 21 Aug 2008
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Yes craziest, the new linux systems are very very nice. I use them all the time now for the last 4 years.

and no damn virus... I love it


..........oztules
Village idiot...or... just another hack out of his depth
 
petanque don
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Joined: 02/08/2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 212
Posted: 04:30am 22 Aug 2008
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It was about 5 years ago that I abandoned Linux.

I found it didn’t have the polish in the programs for someone who wasn’t really interested in computer programming.

What to burn a DVD?

You had a choice of 2000 programs all at the 0.1 stage.

Command line programming was just too hard for me.

Logically it is probably simpler and more user friendly now.
 
oztules

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Joined: 26/07/2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 1686
Posted: 08:50am 22 Aug 2008
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Since last year they have become more sesnible, now the dvd burners are simpler than the windows for me any way.

Command line stuff is almost non-existant.... unless you want to introduce programs that need compiling.... then ...oh goodness, for me trying to get the nextg card to work in the laptop... after a week I got it and did a how to in a linux forum to help others with the problem. Here

But it is getting significantly better, and five years ago was the dark ages for linux.



.........oztules
Village idiot...or... just another hack out of his depth
 
Gizmo

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Joined: 05/06/2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 5116
Posted: 10:24am 22 Aug 2008
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I do like the Linux system, I recently installed Unbuntu on my cnc router and it was a pleasure to use. The Linux file system is great, the system's inherent resistance to viruses, and stability, do make many Linux distributions a "better" os than the Microsoft offerings.

But I'm a developer, in the real world. I cut my teeth on Java, but soon moved to VB. Why? Its easier and quicker to develop an application in VB than it is in Java. VB is a more powerful language, and ties in well with databases and Microsoft applications. This forum uses VB in the form of ASP, the database is Access, I've made a few changes to the original code, eg the images uploaded are now resized with an MS Office component, it all just works. I still use Javascript from time to time for form validation, etc, but only in the wild. For intranet applications I use IE only as the browser, it has support for VBScript, and doesn't have the page caching and rendering problems of Firefox.

Unfortunately Linux never really came to grips with the VB language. The appache web server has no native support for VB script ( I should mention I have used the Chilli-ASP plugins for appache, on a Cobalt rack server. Been able to compare my code on a Windows IIS server with SQL2000 and an Linux apache server with MySQL at the same time clearly showed how slow the apache server was, a very poor performer. I've never used appache or MySQL since. ). I dont understand why this is so, VB has proven itself, yet the Linux crowd stick with Java ( or PHP for web applications, again I've used it but ended up converting the site to VB ).

I should also mention I've not had a virus infection on any of my Windows PC's in over 5 years. I run an antivirus, I'm careful what I do online. I dont consider my system insecure. The firewall does its thing, I'm always online, I surf the internet and recieve email. Its all about taking care of your system. Now I CAN name a local ISP who ran a Sun Unix system ( with the Linux Cobalt servers to host his users web sites ), he never updated his system because "Unix is secure". One night he left the machine logged in as root, next day someone had hacked into his server, used his email server to post out a few hundred thousand spam emails, uploaded some pirated movies into a public web site, you name it. Took him a week to work out what happened. The hacker had also added a few user accounts with root access, took ages to find them all.
Its not how secure the system is, its how well its updated and used that counts.

If I could develop on a Linux system I would, simply because I like the file system and the way Linux communicates with its devices. Maybe one day, its certainly making some headway over the last couple of years. But until then I need to make a living, and not spend time reconfiguring the kernel.

Just my bit.

Glenn
The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now.
JAQ
 
oztules

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Joined: 26/07/2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 1686
Posted: 10:55am 22 Aug 2008
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Glen,
It would be dishonest of me to say I understood all of the jargon above, but if it works for you.... then keep on keeping on.
Linux has it's problems, and new software is one of the worst. Provided you don't want to do anything exotic, it is a good desktop. The moment I have to log on as root... I suddenly like to use windows..... but this is very rare now. Out of the box, the newer suse, mandriva etc, are very polished.... and provided you don't want to add any more software.... are all most people will

It seems to access all the gizmo's (pun intended) very well except the floppy drives. reads every directory entry seperatly, and can take ages to log on a disk (my camera uses this or usb... I like the disk)

The thing I like most is that the whole world leaves me alone. When I use xp, every site wants to load some gimmick or another, with linux, I just don't remember even getting the beg boxes coming up on the sites.

However, if it were my bread and butter, I would take a more workman like attitude to it ... as you do.

And if I knew what a "(a decent finite element software that deals with a broad range of magnetostatic problems in 2d and 3d)" was, I'd be off the top of the next village idiot list too. Go for it Craziest, you took to FEMM like a duck to water, impressive.



..........oztules

Edited by oztules 2008-08-23
Village idiot...or... just another hack out of his depth
 
Gizmo

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Joined: 05/06/2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 5116
Posted: 12:37pm 22 Aug 2008
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For the average office user, I think Linux has a future if it can get more software companies on board ( including support for VB ). Most PC's in the work force are used for basic office applications, www and email. A Linux PC with Open Office installed will work with most office type files.

A couple of years ago I was working for a large engineering firm ( 120 employees) as the IT manager. I ran a trial of Open Office as a replacement for MS Office. It works well, for most applications, but was slow to start compared to MS Office and had a few compatibility issues. I felt we could work past these problems, but was out voted by the accounts department, they just didn't like it and prefered we spend the $20k plus to upgrade the current version of MS Office. That was a shame, I do like Open Office, and it will work on both Linux and Windows.

The CAD department was a differnet matter. The CAD programs we used (Autocad and Sigmanest) were Windows only applications. These programs also support VB script, and Sigmanest runs a SQL2000 database back end, so I wrote systems in the intranet to talk to the Sigmanest database. This meant someone on the workshop floor could go to any PC and use the intranet to see if a CAD file was finished and ready for the next process, or a manager could pull up a report to find out how much steel was wasted due to poor nesting. This is just the tip of the iceburg, we had Link doing some very clever stuff. All possible because these systems used MS databases and VB script. Linux would not have worked here.

I think its a case of the right os for the right person. I DO think we need more average Jo's using Linux for their day to day www/email/office stuff, it just works so well for that sort of application. But for someone who developes software, plays games, uses CAD, etc, the workhorse stuff, Microsoft have that market beat.

Vista I dont like, this was a mistake by Microsoft, and may give Linux the leg in it needs. Release a CD with Unbuntu, containing Open Office, Gimp or some other graphics program, a CD burner and media player thats easy to use, and a bloody manual that's not written by a Linux nut that assumes you know what he's talking about, and I'll recommend it. Dont forget to take out the 20 plus text editors, 10 plus ftp clients, silly games, eye's, all that rubbish.

Glenn
The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now.
JAQ
 
oztules

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Joined: 26/07/2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 1686
Posted: 09:43pm 22 Aug 2008
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Sounds like an accurate and sensible appraisal... the ubantu suite is still a bit third worldish, I think that mandriva and suse would fit your description very adequately.

About the manuals .. spot on. ... "Dont forget to take out the 20 plus text editors, 10 plus ftp clients, silly games, eye's, all that rubbish. " ... oh so true!!

It is the litle things that let linux down. A dvd's with your requirements are here now, and the programs are now very good, K3B is probably the best no-nonsense dvd burner suite I have seen in either system... but getting a not on the list printer to work is a killer, or scanner or other add on without linux support is a killer.

My new Samsung laser colour had linux support, and that's why I bought it, but I have been caught before. The camera interface programs and nearly everything else is taken care of, and memory stick support is surprisingly nimble. I haven't been root for .... can't remember when. So things are sailing on nicely....

But I still use Protel for circuit boards.... so..back to windows, and the blasted TAXPAK is windows only. grrrr you'd think the government could put a non-proprietry system together to do something this simple. Forcing people to have the latest xp and service packs on board is criminal behaviour as far as I'm concerned.

Forcing people to use an easily compromised system for their financials is poor. Most people can't adequately protect themselves in windows.... the proof is the virus attacks work. Only computer literate people can take the necessary steps to virtually guarantee virus/trojan free computing. When a windows user, I never got a virus (although I did get the stoned virus on dos maybe 18 years ago).
On dial up, it is impossible to download the daily virus updates because of the sheer size and bandwidth.... on my dial up I would not even get a decent sized virus down the line in the end I suspect.. so 3G now.

Over here I spend a bit of time reprogramming peoples computers (free service... although beer gratefully drunk on site), nearly all the times it is virus, and most have had protection...or so they thought. Now I just repartition and reload xp for them, give them a d drive to store stuff on load up their antivirus and let em go again. I know they will come undone again, just means another beer trip next year/month etc...... luv windows sometimes

No-one in the real normal bloke world backs up....only sensible folk do.... counts me out too.


...........oztules
Village idiot...or... just another hack out of his depth
 
GWatPE

Senior Member

Joined: 01/09/2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 2127
Posted: 11:44pm 22 Aug 2008
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Hi all,

backing up data is also risky. It is likely that the novice will backup the viruses and trojans as well. Not all this problem causing code resides in just the windows directory.

Gordon.


become more energy aware
 
oztules

Guru

Joined: 26/07/2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 1686
Posted: 07:41am 23 Aug 2008
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So true Gordon,

What I normally do is a clean install.. then an image to dvd, load up all their printers, faxes, toys and trinkets,programs (point them to store the data on D),and drivers for their weird stuff, and do another dvd image. (image for windows and phylock ) It makes a self booting DVD with only a few simple questions that they just press enter to rewrite their C drive with all their progs and settings.

Then when it all falls to bits, they can resurrect their c drive in 5-8 mins, run an antivirus on their C and D and hopefully all will be well in 25 mins or less..... thats the theory.

In practice it has worked for the folks over here for the last 4 years or so, (only over about 9 systems).

At the very worst they can resurrect their computer with all the drivers themselves in 8 mins and go from there.

I haven't played under the bonnet since Dos days in assembler.... a long long time. The world has moved on, and I haven't, but that is how I have solved it at this stage, and so far so good.

I can't stop the neophytes from catching virus, but can seem to ease the pain very quickly this way, and it costs them nothing, and me .... well more time to drink their beer.... away from their computer.



..........oztulesEdited by oztules 2008-08-24
Village idiot...or... just another hack out of his depth
 
GWatPE

Senior Member

Joined: 01/09/2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 2127
Posted: 08:04am 23 Aug 2008
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Hi Oztules,

I am fortunate that my portege has a ROM HDD partition, that can only be accessed by a specific keypress on bootup. This allows the machine to be reconfigured back to factory settings. No DVD required. I have done this when I first puchased and once since. I do get tired of Microsoft and the internet registration process. Much of my data logging and PCB software is unfortunately restricted to a microsoft platform. I tried open office, but I have reverted back to the microsoft product.

My internet laptop lives in standby most of the time as I hate waiting for a machine to reboot. I occasionally have to reboot, when things slow down. A computer is just a tool to me and if I need to use it, It has to be ready when I am.

I probably spend more time than I should on this forum, but what the heck.

I have not tried Linux myself, but maybe one day.

Gordon.


become more energy aware
 
CraziestOzzy

Senior Member

Joined: 11/07/2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 135
Posted: 03:52pm 23 Aug 2008
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Found a good source of information a long while back
about Microsoft...
sign of
the times

Just happy that LInux has woken up to the challenge :P
And about that FEMM prog, Dinges is right in saying it
only takes a few hours to learn...I recommend you
initially don't read the manual :)
What I have found in researching similar progs, is that
FEMM is becoming commercial by nature and LUA scripts
are virtually non-existant for their previous (and
current) "open source" interface regarding generators.
Would be damned nice to have some guru build a script
for us genny freaks who would like to stick with the
FEMM approach and quantify effects such as saturation,
amperage, flux distro etc during assorted RPM's and
voltage/amperage and load ranges of a genny. It is
possible, but my time at the moment is not too free of
late to convert some important equations into ASCII .
But happy still to use FEMM to look at the flux effects
on some crazy stuff :)
http://cr4.globalspec.com/member?u=25757

http://www.instructables.com/member/OzzyRoo/
 
oztules

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Joined: 26/07/2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 1686
Posted: 10:30pm 23 Aug 2008
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Thanks for that Crazzie, I enjoyed it thoroughly.

And I understood your prose, and picked out as relevant "I recommend you initially don't read the manual", I am happy with that, .... but understood nothing after that. Scripting is out of my comfort zone.

I'll leave that to you smarter folks.


..........oztules
(simple island boy)Edited by oztules 2008-08-25
Village idiot...or... just another hack out of his depth
 
Robb
Senior Member

Joined: 01/08/2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 221
Posted: 08:54am 24 Aug 2008
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I started playing with it 2 years back. Hard at first but once you get it sorted it stays sorted .
 
vasi

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Joined: 23/03/2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 1697
Posted: 01:12am 11 Feb 2009
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I tried to find an alternative for Glenn, is here only one: Gambas 2. It can be installed on Ubuntu with "Synaptic package Manager".

From "System" option from main menu, choose "Administration" submenu and launch "Synaptic Package Manager" application. Inside it, use "gambas2" word to search for packages and then, check for installation everything about gambas2 in resulted list. Here is a screen shot:


The screen shot is from Ubuntu 8.10

And here is about Gambas (what it is, features, etc.).
Is the only credible alternative under linux.

Would be nice to have a linux version for Glenn's Windmill Logger.

Is better to install Gambas with Synaptic Package Manager but linux veterans can compile it from sources.

And for us, is better to use Ubuntu Hardy 8.04 LTS (Long Term Support) with emc 2 package (see at emc2 site for an .iso image)

Other screenshots from SuSE Linux 11.1

The starting window allow you to choose the type of application you want to develop.


Edited by vasi 2009-08-25
Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton
Elvish name: Mablung Miriel
Beyound Arduino Lang
 
RossW
Guru

Joined: 25/02/2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 495
Posted: 07:57am 11 Feb 2009
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  Gizmo said  
The appache web server has no native support for VB script ( I should mention I have used the Chilli-ASP plugins for appache, on a Cobalt rack server. Been able to compare my code on a Windows IIS server with SQL2000 and an Linux apache server with MySQL at the same time clearly showed how slow the apache server was, a very poor performer. I've never used appache or MySQL since. ).


Sorry Glenn, I can't let that one go unchallenged.

Apache in anything but the most deliberately slowed down, overburdoned configuration, will absolutely kill IIS stone cold motherless dead for performance on similar hardware.

I do this for a living, and the difference is *VAST*.

OK, I don't run linux, and that may be the difference, I know FreeBSD can run faster than many versions of linux, but I'd be surprised if that alone accounted for the difference.

As for integration and server-side stuff - apache may not do vbscript - but it does do php, can talk nicely to mysql/postgress, and will run any amount of server side stuff either in setuid-executable code, shell scripts or stand-alone programs.

It may offend your "windoz rules" views, but to call apache slow is just plain wrong, and demonstrably and provably so. And not just by a little bit, either.

RossW
 
wind-pirate

Senior Member

Joined: 01/02/2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 101
Posted: 05:08pm 12 Feb 2009
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Please people!!

Keep this up. We need more operting system options.
So many people think the only option is windows.

I use xp and i'm getting loads of crap every day.

There must be a better way. I would like to know more about other options. I found linux mint, but i don;t know what do with it now!!
THE Pirate.
stealing wind & solar energy is fun
 
vasi

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Joined: 23/03/2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 1697
Posted: 09:49pm 24 Feb 2009
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  vasi said   I tried to find an alternative for Glenn, is here only one: Gambas 2.


Well, I am wrong!
There are two more options. First, is FreeBasic (QBasic 4.5 compatible and more) and the second (most important) is KBasic,

  Quote  
It is a new programming language, a further BASIC dialect and is related to VB.NET™, Visual Basic® 6, Visual Basic for Application® and Java™. It combines the best features of those tools and comes with built-in backward support for those tools and QBasic as it is 100% syntax compatible to VB6, VBA and QBasic®.

Additionally, it comes with support for VB.NET™ syntax, functions and similar objects and classes.


KBasic is named as "The World's most advanced open source Basic" and is available for Mac,Windows and Linux. KBasic use Qt Library as UI interface. And Nokia anounced that Qt 4.5 will be released under LGPL licence (you are free to develop commercial applications if you want). Until now, a commercial license for QT was ~ 1400$
Qt in use.
Visual Basic 6 versus KBasicEdited by vasi 2009-02-26
Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton
Elvish name: Mablung Miriel
Beyound Arduino Lang
 
Bernie the Bolt

Regular Member

Joined: 26/10/2006
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 45
Posted: 08:23pm 11 Apr 2009
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Hey Glen.
Try Linux Mint, its more or less what you are asking for in a Linux distro. Its based on Ubuntu but has all the codecs pre-installed for video etc. also no silly games. and comes with gimp and open office.
Bernie the Bolt

I'd rather be sailing!
 
luddite42

Newbie

Joined: 01/07/2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 6
Posted: 08:34am 16 Aug 2009
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I know I am buying into this discussion somewhat late but you did say 'Linux' after all.
I have a dual boot machine and only have an XP partition as I like to play games. Regardless of what WINE fans will tell you my personal belief is that it doesn't cut the mustard.
I do run several Windows applications that there are no open source substitutes for. I do this all within a virtual machine using the fast and free 'VirtualBox'. This has the added benefit of allowing you to keep your windows partition completely isolated from the net if you want or to at least use a hand rolled firewall if you have to connect for some reason. Not to mention being a virtual machine you can save its state at any time and resume from that point whenever you want.
I also haven't had a virus since I got the stoned virus a couple of decades ago (give or take a year or two). It was the first virus I ever edited and I created a version that destroyed your partition table after x reboots(i discovered this when it trashed mine - LOL). No I did not release it into the wild it was just some fun one drunken evening.

 
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