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Forum Index : Off topic archive. : You just never know......
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oztules Guru  Joined: 26/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1686 |
I received an email from a forum member over at fieldlines..... which I will post here, just so people can see how helping out others can have ramifications you cant begin to guess at.. I have helped create a monster... Subject: methanolcat from otherpower To: "oztules" <oztules@bigpond.com> Date: Saturday, October 31, 2009, 2:03 AM hey John Not sure if you remember me or not, I used to ask ya questions about electronics and we worked together on a load controller I was working on for a windmill, later on asking some advice about a motor controller I was going to build for an electric motorcycle. Well here it about a year later and I have the controller completed, in the past year I have learned loads about electronics, bought a used oscilloscope (cause I knew I would need it to be successful) spent well over a hundred hours researching and designing (even blowing up parts from time to time) designed the pcb, made the pcb, cooling rails, enclosure and every thing else I couldn't buy. The controller specs are 200v max and 1220a peak, its liquid cooled so should be able to handle quite a bit of current continuously, has 3 throttle ramp settings (mild, somewhat aggressive and race) has adjustable current limiting, adjustable pwm frequency (although 18k seems to work good and keeps annoying noise out of the motor) open throttle shut down (in case theres a break in a throttle wire or the pot goes bad) and an on-board voltage regulator (15v) to supply up to 15a to the mosfet driver and power the control circuit. My main project was to build an electric reverse trike and heres a link to it on youtube doing a burn out, fun fun. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pY5c_ge-cBg I still have more to do to the bike (body and other assorted things) but so far I have had it up to 85 mph and get around 25 miles per charge (depending on how ya ride it of course) I just wanted to thank you for helping me in the beginning and see that your help has encouraged me to succeed on this project. I'm a machinist by trade so thats why all the fancy metal work, I have tons of pics, heres a few, I have more if ya want to see more, hope ya enjoy. Had to put off windmill for a while due to back injury but will return on that next summer. Thanks again, Matt 
So you just never know where it will end 
Well done Matt.... left me for dead I'm afraid... ............oztules Village idiot...or... just another hack out of his depth |
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Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5116 |
Now that is truly impressive. Keep us posted on how he goes Oz. The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| oztules Guru Joined: 26/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1686 |
Sorry Gizmo, it ended up in this: 
I can't imagine what it will look like when it is complete. .............oztules Village idiot...or... just another hack out of his depth |
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GWatPE Senior Member  Joined: 01/09/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2127 |
Hi oztules, Matt has made a monster. All those mosfets will require a substantial power supply to drive them effectively. I don't see many batteries yet. Must be a way to go yet till it is completed. I think this would be a candidate for a LiPo pack. The other place I have seen almost as many mosfets is in an inverter. A 20kW unit I designed in 1988 had 36 x 400V Mosfets, and this was bad enough in the control system. The heatsink was a fan forced, air cooled number. This unit above is 200kW capacity, and is a major item. I hope the fusing is up to it. I think Trev gets about 500A peak in his EV. Gordon. become more energy aware |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
WOW What a bit of engineering have you done reliability testing yet and where is the trailer for the batteries. Keep up the good work All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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methanolcat Newbie  Joined: 05/08/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 9 |
Reliability testing, yeah that can be seen here, lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZMhBRSJVJk Link to my other videos (COPY AND PASTE) http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=induced73&search _type=&aq=f Trailer, theres no trailer, the batteries are on the bike in the pics, just hard to see, all 10 of them. Running nominal 120V, but charge the pack to 140V, the batteries are my limiting factor, the most power I have seen is 434 battery amps, and that is from a dead stop, full throttle using medium throttle ramp on controller, which is aggressive but not out of control. Problem is though that the batteries are SLA, 18AH at that so my range isn't so good and the voltage sags way down when I get on it. Would love to have some lithium's if anyone is willing to donate them. 
My goal with this was to be able to ride to work and back (16 mile round trip), and show off like we all love to do. The way its looking though, it may turn into a drag bike, hard to say at this point, lithium batts are expensive and lead acid isn't cheap either, I can't go 16 miles on what I have and new lead acid (50AH) would be $600 - $700 anyhow and if I was gonna do that I would give the extra and buy lithium batts. I may just sit on this project for a bit and see if lithium batts come down in price, has to happen sooner or later. I can still ride it around and have fun with it, like I said maybe hit the drag strip now and then. The controller is capable of 200V max and 1220A peak, those are maximum numbers, I would never push those limits though, not continuously, I would most likely never go over 180V and 1000A, should be fine with liquid cooling, not even using liquid cooling now and it barely gets warm, course longest trip has only been around 6 miles. Matt Matt |
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MacGyver Guru Joined: 12/05/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 1329 |
VK4AYQ Hey! I thought I felt a ripple in The Force! Congrats; you're a "Senior Member"!  Nothing difficult is ever easy! Perhaps better stated in the words of Morgan Freeman, "Where there is no struggle, there is no progress!" Copeville, Texas |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi All The eternal battery problem raised its head again hence my earlier comment on the trailer, I had the same problem 30 years ago and nothing has changed, I did experiment with some rolled plate cells for higher capacity but still the PB weight problem, thats why I think the only practical thing is a hybrid untill some smart cookie makes a better battery or a super condensor. Thanks for the thought Macgyver All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| Bernhard Newbie Joined: 01/02/2010 Location: CanadaPosts: 12 |
Although I am 65 (=only 18 Celsius) old I am still and always will be a speed freak. Therefore I see it as my duty to come to this guys aid about the flak he takes where the trailer with the batteries is. I sure hope it works, since I lost the original URL to this video and I had to upload it from my PC to "fileden.com" http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/5/17/2445065/E-Bike.flv This bike is called "Quantya". For those who are not fluent in German, at frame time 0:26 he tells you it has 23 hp at 0:38 that the battery is a "Lithium Polymer" battery, the size of a small motor bike fuel tank at 0:52 that it can maintain full power with this new battery type in excess of 2 hours...while conventional types lasted only 7 minutes. at 1:01 he tells you that the street version of this bike presently costs 9300 Euros. Boy oh boy I love that sled you are building there! all you need now are Lithium Polymer batteries from "Quantya" in Switzerland. |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Bernhard It sounds like the battery devolopment we have all been waiting for although his full power for two hours compared to seven minuits for conventional bateries sounds a bit optimistic in line with other batteries / Lipo cells. I havent been able to track the manufacturer yet to get price and performance specs. If economical $ PER WATT THAT COULD SOLVE OUR LED SLED PROBLEM. More searching required. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| Bernhard Newbie Joined: 01/02/2010 Location: CanadaPosts: 12 |
I was born and educated in Germany and lived since 40 years in Canada....but I do like to say: "I'm from Missoura...show me!" Like You I am a bit skeptical what I hear in the press. After your reply I did a cursory search. "Quantya" is easy to find, but with the batteries all I can get is second hand information. Like: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=397798 "Total weight is less than 90 kg (of which the batteries are 17 kg). Engine power is 10hp (7.5 kW). But temporary you have a boost capability of 3.5 times the nominal power, so there is more than 35hp and 40 Nm available at any time. Even at zero speed. The performance is surprising, according to KTM. Battery charge lasts 40 minutes. Recharge time is an hour." But if a well known manufacturer like KTM teams up with Quantya then I am starting to sit bolt upright: http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/02/ktm-promises-a/ "KTM Promises a Race-Ready Electric Motorcycle In 2010" 
Try the "Clusty" search engine instead of "Google" you might be able to hit "pay dirt" in regard to these "Lithium Polymer" batteries: http://clusty.com/search?v%3afile=viv_1155%4023%3an6gTcC&v%3 aframe=list&v%3astate=root|N512&id=N512&action=list&sw=|KTM| Race-Ready%20Electric|&sec=1265167892& When I use the key words: lithium ploymer batteries, then I get a whole load of CONVENTIONAL Lithium battery technology but nothing in conjunction with "Quantya" That does lead one to suspect, that the "Quantya" batteries might be a different kettle of fish after all. But Like I said, anybody can claim just about anything these days....paper is patient! When I used "lithium polymer batteries +quantya" I get these clusters: http://clusty.com/search?input-form=clusty-simple&num=200&v% 3Asources=webplus&language=all&filter=none&query=lithium+pol ymer+batteries+%2Bquantya "Quantya" is pretty tight-lipped about their batteries except to say this: http://www.quantyabikes.co.uk/2008/10/charging-the-quantya/ * A full charge of the battery takes 2-3 hours. * A battery can be recharged up to 1000 times. * The charger simply plugs into the bike on one end and into a normal plug socket on the other. * The battery is under warranty for 2 years. But like you said, this needs to be investigated further. No way would I lay out any money, just because there is a lot of press hype! My initial intention was only to deflect some flak from the guy who did an absolutely outstanding job with the controller and the bike,.... I mean the "where is the trailer with the batteries".. a well meant joke...but I do know it can hurt a bit when you pour your heart out to build something, not just anybody can build and get "wise cracks"... even though they are meant in good spirit and humor... hey I tried that sort of thing once with a State trooper in North Carolina...and believe me I'll NEVER EVER make another wise crack in North Carolina again!!!!! |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Bernhard, Thanks for the info on the links, it looks like you had a better success with search than I did. My earlier comments where in no way to run down his efforts and I commend the effort and level of engineering that went into the design and construction of the controller, and the whole vehicle however we must look at the overall project aim and the outcome thereof from a practical point of view, if he was intent at making a drag bike with a 10 second power burst to gain recognition for EV it would be great, and with a bit better batteries to arrest capacity droop at high discharge would make a it real rocket. The stated aim however was to be able to commute to work 16 miles and back, that would make a usefull EV that all EV fans including myself could salute, hence the comment on the trailer with extra batteries was meant as a suggestion to increase AH capacity and make it a useful device without materially changing the prime mover not a slur on the wonderful engineering effort to get it mobile. As stated before we are all waiting with bated breath for battery development to catch up with engineering capabilities in the EV movement. As for wise cracks I also know that the jackbooted SS troopers posing as public servents in the USA in general are not to be joked with as they have a far extended opinion of their own position in the world, I never met one over there that you could have a joke with, mind you that applies to the PC in most countries, we have our own version of storm troopers here in AU. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| grub Senior Member Joined: 27/11/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 169 |
With regards to the aussie gestapo having no sense of humour, I was pulled over one day for a "random breath test" (Revenue raising attempt). Officer comes up to the car window and says, "This is a random breath test, may I see your licence please". I replied, "If you want, but I am pretty sure it has not been drinking". That went down like a poorly designed lead balloon. Back on topic, personally I like the trike and its design. |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Grub I like your comeback quick thinking. Yes I must agree with you the design of the trike is a excellent piece of engineering, but a bit light in construction to carry batteries to make it a tourer however it shows that in our ranks we have innovators with capabilities of doing most anything, by working together as a group with combined skills the members of the forum have are and will in the future provide innovation to spur along development of all sorts of enviromentally frindly things to benifit all. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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