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Forum Index : Off topic archive. : Nuke Power
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| VK4AYQ Guru  Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi All Last year we had a discussion on Nuke Power for the future, and some decided it was a viable option, however this latest event in Japan shows the risks as the world moves into a period of higher than usual seismic activity. The returns are great but the risks are greater, another meltdown or even a leak can affect people for years to come. news from the Washington Post. Washington Post Staff Writer Friday, March 11, 2011; 6:41 PM Japanese officials called Saturday for further evacuations from the area surrounding a nuclear power plant where radiation levels inside have surged to 1,000 times their normal levels after the cooling system failed. THIS STORY Powerful aftershocks shake Tokyo MAP: Where the quake hit Global stocks down after huge earthquake hits Japan View All Items in This Story The nuclear safety agency expanded the evacuation area after some radiation had also seeped outside the plant, the Associated Press also reported. The cooling system for a reactor at the Fukushima Daiichi power plant was crippled after power was lost in the wake of a deadly earthquake and tsunami hit Japan on Friday afternoon. The loss of electricity has also delayed the planned release of vapor from inside the reactor to ease pressure, AP said. Pressure inside one of the reactors had risen to 1.5 times the level considered normal. Japanese authorities on Saturday were racing to find ways to deliver new backup generators or batteries to the plant. The reactor, owned by Tokyo Electric Power Co., is drawing on battery power that may last only a few hours. Without electricity, the reactor will not be able to pump water to cool its hot reactor core, possibly leading to a meltdown or some other release of radioactive material. Japanese authorities ordered the evacuation of about 3,000 residents within a 1.9-mile radius of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant and told people within a 16.2-mile radius to remain indoors, according to the Web site of the International Atomic Energy Agency's (IAEA) Incident and Emergency Centre. The cooling problem affects the second of six reactors at the plant, on the east coast of Japan about 200 miles north of Tokyo and south of the heavily damaged town of Sendai. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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mid north Matt Regular Member  Joined: 06/01/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 58 |
ive always said leave the yellow cake in the the ground and find other ways to meet the world's energy needs,nothing is completely fail safe or in this case mother nature safe and never will be even though they have backup systems on backup systems,then theres the what to do with the spent waste which no one wants.i live 130 kms away from where their allowed to leach yellow cake out of the ground using god knows what to disolve the yellow cake to get it up to the surface by a candanian company that is not allowed to do this form of mining in their own country,shame on you mike rann for giving them the go ahead,wait till it gets into the underground water tables that farmers use to water their stock with and bye bye australias green and clean image with lose of meat exports to get a quick buck,they the farmers should have stung that "LADIES THING" up by his balls for doing that and then stoned him to death. Pt Wakefield Matt |
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philb Regular Member Joined: 05/07/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 96 |
In the past, I have been totally against nuclear power. They don't have a place to store the waste except at the power station or in a deep rift in the ocean floor. As time goes on, the easy oil will disappear and getting it will cause more wars, hunger etc. Nuclear power is still in its infancy now and there are going to be mistakes. I had rather see them make "small" mistakes now than I had see them wipe out half the planet out later. Someone will always be out there playing with nuke power, just because they can. It is still some mysterious force that "I" can tame. Also, I'd rather see them make electricity than bombs out of the stuff. Hopefully, wind and solar will make up the majority of our diet of power in the future. philb |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Philb Boys like their toys and governments like their toys too, I would suggest that if they want to have nuke power, to make a ring of them around the seat of government and have a citizen exclusion zone of 50 miles for security. To me its like building my house in the middle of a petrol refinery storage facility because the land was cheap and having a wood fueled fire for warmth. People lived for thousands of years with out cheap oil and will do so again unless they glow in the dark. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| philb Regular Member Joined: 05/07/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 96 |
Good points Bob. Are you sure it's legal to put a nuke plant that close to politicians? They want the plants in our backyards to give us low cost land.  philb |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi philb The parasites and criminals in and around government will make anything legal or illegal to protect their own ass, but when it comes to protecting citizens they couldn't care less unless they can make money out of it or gain kudos to help them win another term. We cannot rely on these parasites and pubic serpants to protect society in general only the upper 5 percent that are their associates. We need to progress our endevours in self sustainability and alternate energy to show that it can be done using simple and low impact technology. They will embrace only what they or their commercial masters deem financially profitable, we the milking cows of society need to show other milking cows that it can be done. When the lights go out on their schemes as it has done now in Japan, those with light and facilities will stand out for our cause, that is if we are not washed away too. Off the soap box All the best Bob 
Foolin Around |
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wind friend Newbie  Joined: 01/05/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 39 |
i thought the chinese were mucking about with pebble bed reactors that have different cooling requirements. something about pulling the beds apart to reduce the temp within the reactor. less efficient but the control is greater. i think the japanese reactors date back to the seventies. is it a question of technologies, or as i heard one polly say if nuclear is the answer we are asking the wrong question. |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi To me it is like putting a baby at the controls of a 747 loaded with people, all is ok until the computer goes down. The most unreliable piece of equipment on this planet is a computer and the life and wellbeing of the populace is dependent on them. Some time in the future nuke may be made reliable by some undiscovered process, and then they should be buried 5000 meters down in the ground and not within 200 miles of a population center unless we put it 50 meters deep under Canberra. All the best Bob PS:- Morning news. The emergency continues at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant. Radioactive material released during Saturday's explosion and containing potentially lethal iodine-131 and caesium-137 was detected, a signal that uranium fuel rods inside the plant's No.1 reactor had been damaged. An explosion at the plant's No.3 reactor was possible, said Japan's chief cabinet secretary, Yukio Edano, as high-pressure radioactive steam was ejected. The pump for the cooling system at another nuclear complex, the Tokai Daini plant, also failed after the quake. But a second pump operated normally as did the reactor, said the utility, the Japan Atomic Power Company. The Daiichi and Daini plants began to overheat on Friday when the tsunami destroyed back-up systems that were supposed to pump water through the reactor chambers to keep them cool. In all, six reactors were having trouble keeping cool, the government said, and seawater was being pumped through two of them as an emergency measure. All of the reactors at all of the 55 nuclear facilities across Japan shut down automatically when the earthquake shook the region. A mass evacuation of about 210,000 tsunami survivors from near the Fukushima nuclear power complex was still under way last night. Footnote:- The evacuation area is now increased to a 20 klm radius. Does anybody believe in what the government tell the people? we know thy don't want to panic the masses rather they glow in the dark to be a substitute for electricity. Foolin Around |
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diver Newbie Joined: 14/03/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 7 |
'People will believe a big lie sooner than a little one' Applies today just as in 1930's when Adolph Hitler coined the phrase. Stew Red sky in morning sailor take warning, red sky at night sailor's delight. |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
WITHOUT PREJUDICE. Question:- how can you tell if a politician is lying? Answer:- Its mouth is moving! bOB Foolin Around |
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Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5036 |
There was a bit on the ABC tonight about the nuclear power stations and the chances of a melt down. Fingers crossed there wont be a full blown melt down, the company owners are telling the media that so far the cores are still intact. However, this is also the same company that has recently been taken to court in Japan for falsifying safety and maintenance reports, on the same reactors that have have just popped their lids. Personally, I dont like nuclear power. In fact, I'm dead set against it. You cant shut down a nuclear reactor and walk away, it needs to be controlled so long as their is fuel in the core. You cant switch them off. And the fuel is too poisonous, simply walking past a fuel grade pellet of uranium will kill you, and anything else that passes by, for hundreds of years. While there has been some talk of nuclear power in Australia, I can say it wont happen while I'm breathing. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| dwyer Guru Joined: 19/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 573 |
Hi Glenn What about Lucas Heights facility in New South Wales? they use Nuclear power for medical equiment and using other secret research that we don't know  also there was some problem with Radioactive material released in the atmosphere at Lucas Heights facility while back. So l call Lucas Heights Black Secret. 
all the best Dwyer |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Dwyer When I was about 20 I worked at Lucas Heights with a contractor doing the safety interlock system and other upgrades at that time, I have worked inside the reactor building and can clearly remember looking down into the reactor that was full of water and watching the control rods cycle. The point of this is that it is a very small device when compared to a power generator reactor, at the time Lucas Heights was out in the bush well away from the closest civilization, now however it is surrounded close by the urban sprawl, so it has gone from a relative innocuous facility to a dangerous accident waiting to happen. The original concept was to have it well away from the population but with the wisdom of our regulators they, by flawed planning have turned it into a serious health hazard. But what do we expect from a incompetent fragmented government both at local and federal levels. As I said before if we are to have a nuke power station, put it 200 meters deep under parliament house and then if it did blow it would do something useful. Also put in place a 200 klm security zone where the public isn't permitted only Politicians and Pubic Serpants. I agree with Glenn we should do all in our power to stop the development of these cancerous growths on society, and shut down any uranium mining Australia wide. We must be proactive in our promotion and development of alternate energies and associated power efficient devices for the home and light industry. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| philb Regular Member Joined: 05/07/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 96 |
Bob, I don't think the answer is to stop mining not only in Australia, but world wide until they can make a good stop switch and somewhere to put the waste. Stop switch and waste...sounds like my wife speaking about my first wind turbines.
BERLIN, March 14 (UPI) -- German Chancellor Angela Merkel has shelved for three months a decision to extend nuclear power in the country following the Japanese nuclear crisis, which has reopened the debate on the energy source in Europe. Read more: http://www.upi.com/Science_News/Resource-Wars/2011/03/14/Ger many-suspends-nuclear-extension/UPI-74401300120147/#ixzz1GbA VB05J BTW, the BBC has blow by blow live feeds here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698 philb |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Philb In the past government and commercial interests have given little thought to Murphy's Law but this event has them thinking again for a few weeks until the public forget whats happened. There may become a time in the future that processes and engineering make a Murphy proof system, and Pigs will evolve wings and fly and shock horror that politicians may tell the truth, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting. In place like Europe it would require a cooperation of all nations to make a worthwhile safety situation as a slight wind and the neighbors problem becomes yours. Australia is remote and big so not so much a problem. 
These are the ones we should protecting and get rid of any government that doesn't. 
Dog imitating a politician 
All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| Air Bender Senior Member  Joined: 25/01/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 206 |
Up untill this last disaster in Japan I have been hearing the term 100% fail safe being used to discribe the modern nuke plants. But in my opinion for this to be reality you need perfection and as far as i am concerned perfection does not exist and it never will. Just my opinion Dean. |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5036 |
I see things are getting worse. http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/03/17/3166486.htm The winds are expected to take most of the radiation east over the north pacific, but Australian's in Tokyo, 250km to the south west, have been advised to leave due to rising radiation levels. I really do think its time to say good by to this toxic form for power production. Pro nuclear power enthusiasts call it clean energy, I dont see how. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| diver Newbie Joined: 14/03/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 7 |
Glenn Any and all people should evacuate:the main island at the very least. Leave as soon as you can.Unfortunately nuclear power is the genie and its out of the bottle. The birth of the nuclear age was born in a mad race for war purposes. Its ending doesn't bode well either. The fight against nuke power plants was exhausted years ago in the seventies in the US. Unfortunately their world wide distribution has proliferated over the entire globe. There should be a world wide moratorium done by the people of the world. All government's first purpose is as always to insure first that the government is still here tomorrow, nothing more, everything else is incidental to its very existence. The radiation levels will be increased all over the world eventually from this incident adding to the 'background' already inflated by above ground testing and the rest of the poisonous isotopes released in the name of 'progress' With over 50 to 65 percent of power consumed by lights, in the US alone for example. Perhaps worldwide we all could seek a better light source or alternative power sources for all. Its a no-brainer solution compared to possible nuclear meltdown: lubricating faults beneath Japan with hot plasma,or massive super heated steam explosion destabilizing it? Stew Red sky in morning sailor take warning, red sky at night sailor's delight. |
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| philb Regular Member Joined: 05/07/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 96 |
National Public Radio, in the US, stated that one nuke plant produces twice the electricity as all the renewable energy combined. That's sad. The US has about 30 General Electric Mark I nuke plants like the one that is in Japan. There are 140 nuke plants operating in the US and the last plant to be built here was 1979. Wiki says Australia has 23% of the world's uranium deposits. There may be some nuke power in the future if you don't give them this.
There is a discussion about using thorium reactors now. It only has a half life of 500 years, not thousands like uranium. Gee Thanks! Clean energy is wind and solar. Let's exhaust them first before using nuke. philb |
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| domwild Guru Joined: 16/12/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 873 |
Hi, Have to repeat what I mentioned here before because it has relevance to us. Whitlam decided on a non-nuclear policy in Australia as he was clearly worried about a SE Asian nuclear arms race should we go towards nuclear. The sad thing is that, according to the Indonesian Greens, our neighbours are building a nuclear plant in an earthquake prone zone. So we can look forward to something, if this info is correct. Let's hope that the Indos are learning something from this disaster. Apparently the control grafite rods went in after the seismic shocks to stop the neutrons BUT then there wasn't any power to pump water into for cooling of the still hot reactor. My argument is as follows: One million people die due to car accidents on this earth, 30,000 in the USA alone; the same figure as the US Vietnam dead. Are we thinking of banning cars because they are dangerous? No! The benefits to the majority outweigh the trauma of a minority. I live next to a polluter and know that that is the politician's thinking. Sweden, Germany and France get a lot of power from nuclear and one does not hear of any accidents there apart from Greens protesting about the transport of spent fuel to Gorleben in Germany. Taxation as a means of achieving prosperity is like a man standing inside a bucket trying to lift himself up. Winston Churchill |
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