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Forum Index : Off topic archive. : WHAT AN IDIOT
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| VK4AYQ Guru  Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi All Today I realized how much of an idiot I have been, I went to use my back up generator to drill some holes in formwork out of the range of power from the shed, I took my trusty back up generator, topped up the fuel laid out the leads ready for a productive session. Guess what it wouldn't go, Pull - Pull, puff - Puff, but nothing. Tipped a little fuel into the aircleaner and got a chug chug, but thats all, not good for a relied on back up generator. To check the fuel I took the drain plug out of the float bowl of the carby, and shock horror out came an assortment of brown grunge, something like flakes of mica mixed with sticky gum. The revelation hit, last time I used the generator I hadn't stopped it by running the petrol out of the carby, I had just turned off the ignition and thats it. The petrol left in the carby had turned into a varnish like substance and clogged up everything, this is why I am an idiot, because I know this happens, the composition of unleaded petrol is such that if left in a container exposed to air it turns unto this gummy grunge that would eat the horse from under the rider. 
This brown varnish like substance coated everything and had completely blocked the main jet, and glued the needle into the seat so no more fuel could get in, in the pictures it is after I tipped all the loose grunge out, the rest of it was a real worry as it was as good as epoxy the way it stuck to the metal I could only just scratch it of with a screw driver. It was so corrosive that it had eaten the O ring that forms the gasket on the top of the bowl and included a bit of the o ring molecules into the toxic sludge no doubt. After half an hour trying to clean it by manual methods I gave up, I was making no progress at all, so into the solvent bath it went, a mixture of acetone and paint spray thinners, four hours later it was a bit softer so I could remove it with a high quality Chinese paint brush which it dissolved, and some fine steel wool. The results: 
Not perfect I know but a hell of a lot better than when I started. Tomorrow I will put it back together and hope I haven't lost any parts. The idiot bit, I was relying on this generator for emergency power and lights and to have something happen like this in an emergency need situation is inexcusable. How long had it sat? last I used it was over Christmas storm and flood system, so all this damage was done in less than five months. The message, shut off the fuel to stop a generator unless you intend to use it again in a few hours, maybe I did think of using it again last time, but the power came back on and the feeble baked beans forget to run it out before packing away. The question, have you done this to yours as well, check it before you need it next time. and remember that Thinners and acetone will dissolve this grunge in a few hours, nothing else I tried would dissolve it. Please someone come back and tell me I am not the only idiot on the whole forum. 
THE PROJECT 
THE DINASOAR Sorry no picture of the IDIOT. All the best Bob  Foolin Around |
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Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5015 |
Nah you not an idiot Bob. An idiot would throw it away and buy a new generator. Its good advice too, draining the carbie. A lot of the time we just forget, thinking "I'll do that next month after the storm season has passed". It reminds me, tomorrow I need to drag out my generator and drain its carbie. 
Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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sPuDd Senior Member  Joined: 10/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 251 |
My old man used to idle our outboard motors in a drum of fresh water for about 20 minutes then pull the fuel hose and let it splutter out. Never had any fuel issues. Oh, and he would empty a whole can of WD40 all over the engine just to be sure. I've been using the same principle ever since on any petrol engines, including the little 3.5kva inverter I have now. Run the buggers dry 
sPuDd.. It should work ...in theory |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5015 |
You know that reminds me of when I was a kid. At the age of 10 my father told me I had to mow the yard for now on. We had a Victa, and Dad would make me turn off the fuel tap and run it dry when I had finished. The motor would run for a minute, and then suddenly rev up and make a hell of a racket before finally running out of fuel and shutting down. A bit scary as a kid. Then my mate from school told me he heard that the motor can blow up if you do that! So from that day on I was terrified every time I had to mow the grass.
Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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Greenbelt Guru Joined: 11/01/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 566 |
Hi Bob; My personal synapses are miss firing more and more often of late. Thanks for the timely reminder. I last used my Generator in early February and did not purge the Carbie, Must do it today. ----Cheers, Roe Time has proven that I am blind to the Obvious, some of the above may be True? |
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mac46 Guru Joined: 07/02/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 412 |
I've my hand raised too, been there done that...thought that, and the bad part, I'll probably do it again too. Looks like a big project ahead, when I built my garage I invested in a transit, a bit of a splurge I thought...but well worth the money when it comes to accuracy.(and no carb. to drain). .....Mac46 ps: I like that digger! I'm just a farmer |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi All This unleaded fuel now is a real worry, before unleaded you could leave it for months and it was still good and no sludge or varnish formed, now a few weeks and a damp atmosphere and it turns to varnish and can be very corrosive as well. When it first came in we put it in the plane and had all sorts of gum problems in the lines and filters, it ate the copper strainers out of the fuel tanks, turned them to green sludge. Now if we aren't using the plane for a week or two we drain the petrol right out. In the old days we had a drum of petrol that sat at the back of the shed for five years and was still good but now if it sit for more than a couple of months the motors wont start on it, I mix it 50/50 with new stuff and use it in the ride on mower, as it's not safe to fly with. Thats why I am an idiot because dealing with this all the time and I still stuffed up. Hi Spud Sounds like your old man had many good years of service out of his motors, not like some of the boatie's now that have corroded unreliable motors after the first season. Hi Glenn When I was in high school my part time job was repairing motor mowers and i remember the rev up before stop very well, it is caused by running a rich mixture to help cool the motor in normal use, when we used them in go carts we leaned them out and got a lot more power but they didn't last to long, but the object was to win not to have the oldest motor in the club. My main back up motor is a diesel and it never gives any trouble, it was a bit more expensive but in fuel cost saving it has paid for its self many times over. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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Bryan1 Guru Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1209 |
I can say I've been there...... the main water pump on the farm was running a tad rough so I decided to give it a tuneup with all new filters and a new plug. Changed all the filters and when it came to the plug i did notice it was on an angle, yep the dork who fitted it before we bought the farm has cross threaded the plug. Anyway I had a backup B&S water pump so that went online and the honda with the cross-threaded spark plug thread just went under the house for 4 years. I decided it was time to fix the honda so rather than go buy a heli coil kit and do it myself I took into the mower place and asked them to do it and to clean the carbi. Well when I got charged $79 for the job I thought man thats rich but even worse they didn't even do the carbi. So I cleaned out the ol' gunk the best I could but never got the carbi to run off idle. so back in the shed it went for another 12 months... My B&S water pump gave up the ghost and I remembered sheesh I didn't drain the petrol out. Anyway drained out the ol' fuel and put the water pump online with fresh fuel. It started after 3 pulls on the cord and with my son up at the header tank with a uhf radio he soon said water was going in the tank. To this day that honda water pump won't run off idle but it will pump water upto the header tank in the roughly the same time as the B&S use to, but now I can get 3 full runs out of a tank of fuel where when I used it before it was a fuel guzzler. Cheers Bryan |
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| RossW Guru Joined: 25/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 495 |
25 years ago we had a big storm here in town that took power out for a few days and left us on rotating rations (some hours on, some hours off) for 4 months. I purchased a 5KVA honda/dunlite genset then, which kept the business side working, and thought I'd keep it as a backup genset. Added a 60 litre fuel tank, thought it was the ducks guts. Ran it every month just to make sure. First time I needed it in anger - it started fine, but wouldn't hold any load. The fuel had gone off. Lesson learned. DON'T use petrol gensets for emergency power. Period. The fuel goes off, it causes all sorts of problems like the original poster. The answer? A quick, cheap conversion to propane. Fuel will never go off in the cylinder. You can use the bbq bottle for reserve or like me, a 20Kg cylinder or larger. It's clean, it's convenient and it's *reliable*. For a backup genset, the latter is the most important. |
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| mac46 Guru Joined: 07/02/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 412 |
Everyone, Somewhat off topic, I layed 2 courses of cement blocks , first, for my new garage. It helps the building inthat it gets it up away from the splash of the rain and also lets you have a higher interior work space, "you can flip a sheet of plywood", without takeing out a light, and allows the windows to be higher, letting in better light. A small additional cost compared to the entire project, and makes a huge differance. Worth considering. .....Mac46 I'm just a farmer |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Idiot is alive and not well. Well I did it again, I set up an Inverter Latronics 24 volt 1500 watts for a test on the battery bank, all hooked up and functioning OK, turned on the battery charger for a bit of top up 10 amps, got the call for dinner and forgot to turn it all off. I was sitting down to lunch when I glanced out to the shed only to see smoke billowing out the roof and door, panic panic made haste to the shed only to find a large fire where the Inverter and charger used to be, the whole dam lot had gone up in smoke along with a heap of tools my LG generator the wife's new gas oven and other assorted items. A frantic half hour with water buckets and I managed to get it out, I think if it had gone another couple of minutes before I noticed it it would have been bye bye shed and everything, so that's the bright side, but wife will kill me when she sees her new gas oven burned to a crisp. Cause and effect, The Chinese battery charger caught fire, second one to do that now so I should have known better, the melting guts and plastic of the battery charger dripped onto the the polystyrene packing of the oven that was under the bench and from there on it ate everything within a meter or so. I think a fault in the Inverter may have overloaded the battery charger causing it to catch fire but will never know for sure as the whole lot is now a lump of molten metal. I believe it started in the Inverter as all the inside was charcoal, and the leads of the battery charger had melted off but the plastic internals where well cooked but more or less intact. Moral of the story is to never go and leave a test item connected while you have lunch otherwise you will join the Idiot file like me. It tested 1 amp idle current and 230 volts output with no load and was connected through a 100 amp circuit breaker there was no load on the Inverter at the time. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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norcold Guru Joined: 06/02/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 670 |
Hey Bob, You been stirring up the Irish lately. No stuff ups up here for awhile, now I know why you`ve got Murphy down your way. Will arrange a new gas oven for your Missus delivery and all if you keep Murphy down there. We have our hands full up here with Mick & Pat. We come from the land downunder. Vic |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Vic Thanks for the offer but Murphy Law is an all encompassing Law without boundaries and restraints, and actually seems to favor distant and remote areas where it is difficult to provide backup systems to minimize bad effects. Best of luck with Pat and Mick and their cousin. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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isaiah Guru Joined: 25/12/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 303 |
Hey Bob Do you guys have the petrol stabilizer's down there? We use them here in the states and seem to help.Don't be afraid to give a tank a double dose. The petrol here in the usa is getting worse also . I may look to updating my back up gen to lp Its a very old B & S motor but had very few hrs on it when I got it. The starter rope pulley still had all the paint on it. URL=http://www.motherearthnews.com/Renewable-Energy/1973-11- 01/The-Plowboy-Interview.aspx>The Plowboy Interview[/URL> |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Charlie I have seen the petrol conditioner but it is a bit expensive to justify its use, I believe avgas already has it in it so that may be a good call. \ The problem I had with varnish was caused bu Idiot putting some 2 stroke mix in the generator, apparently the oil reacts with the ULP esters and forms a varnish after a few weeks. I tried it in a container and after 3 months I had a lining of varnish but the one without oil there was none, the petrol was flat and wouldn't even start the mower though, moral of the story is to keep using fresh petrol and do not store it for long. Let me know how your generator conversion to gas goes as I have been thinking along those lines myself. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| isaiah Guru Joined: 25/12/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 303 |
Bob, And All dose any one know of lp conversions for the older gas engines?. I have several small tanks and we use LP at this time to heat the house and have a 500 gal for that so I could tap into it. we are open to suggestions for lp conversions. Isaiah URL=http://www.motherearthnews.com/Renewable-Energy/1973-11- 01/The-Plowboy-Interview.aspx>The Plowboy Interview[/URL> |
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| Greenbelt Guru Joined: 11/01/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 566 |
isaiah LP conversion, Simple to costly --------Cheers, Roe Time has proven that I am blind to the Obvious, some of the above may be True? |
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| norcold Guru Joined: 06/02/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 670 |
Have had a little success using Castrol Fuel Doctor added to petrol in gennies, since using have not suffered from the gumming up. Cause it has claims gives better fuel consumption etc etc, cannot verify those claims. We come from the land downunder. Vic |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Vic Next time in town I will get some and give it a try. Bob Foolin Around |
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| isaiah Guru Joined: 25/12/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 303 |
Roe, Thank you for the link. Ill have to contact them and see if they have one for a 1968 B&S. The old generator dosent have very many hours on it and I usually change the oil every year.Its a 3500 watt and runs everything in the house but the air cond. It runs the furnace in the winter and the smrsable water pump. I think I might like something a bit bigger and maybe some newer. Charlie URL=http://www.motherearthnews.com/Renewable-Energy/1973-11- 01/The-Plowboy-Interview.aspx>The Plowboy Interview[/URL> |
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