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Forum Index : Electronics : New Charge Controller/Logger
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Bryan1 Guru  Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1210 |
Hiya Guy's Well many times I've asked you blokes to growup from the picaxe so I going to start my quest on a pic based charge controller/logger open source so people who want to get into RE can have a cheap controller they can make themselves and isn't relient on a PC to handle the data. The 24x1024 eeproms from microchip can be daisychained for 4 so thats 4 meg of eeprom data waiting to be uploaded when the user can get to it. I'm not taking away from Glenn's piclog from anyway hopefully but for us RE folk that can't have a puter running all the time this concept sounds promising. More later Cheers Bryan |
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SparWeb Senior Member  Joined: 17/04/2008 Location: CanadaPosts: 196 |
Why can't the PicAxe communicate with an EEPROM, too? What about this thing? http://www.rev-ed.co.uk/docs/AXE110.pdf I still like the idea. In fact, I'd love to make one, but I'm several years away, yet, from knowing how to wire up an EEPROM chip. If one was starting from scratch, and was aiming for a "wind turbine" datalogger and not a "anything under the sun" datalogger, then you would probably come up with something more suitable, maybe simpler than the AXE110. Here's a suggestion, from the research I've done already: http://profmason.com/?page_id=106 Steven T. Fahey |
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| Bryan1 Guru Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1210 |
Hi Steven, The main reason I'm going to make a pic based one is I have a heap of pic chips and eeproms here and for me to get into the picaxe would cost a bundle. Afterall the picaxe is just a pic with a basic interpretor in it and you dont get the full use of the pic chip using a picaxe. Microchip are pretty generous with samples and their IDE Mplab is a free download. I have an ICD2 clone here so debugging a program in real time can be done. I'll be basing my project most likely on a 16f886 or 16f887 which is the new version of the old 16f87xa series. The beauty of these new chips is they have an internal osc which cuts down on the parts count and they have the ability to write and read the program memory. The assembly language for the 16f series is only 35 words and isn't that hard to learn and there is plenty of info on the net (the piclist for one) Cheers Bryan |
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Gill Senior Member Joined: 11/11/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 669 |
Steve, The PicAXE will do the job nicely as will the PIC. I've been putting one together but other priorities override, but it will come together in time. Mine is just a variant of the AXE110 built specifically for an anemometer, though other inputs say from a controller could be substituted easily enough. In the mean time, I'll let the PIC REAL MEN do this one. I'll present the PicAXE boy's toy later. Sorry I can't participate further but a good project for sure.  was working fine... til the smoke got out. Cheers Gill _Cairns, FNQ |
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Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5019 |
This sounds like a interesting project Bryan. I've always wanted to try the PIC chips but never found the time. I did buy a 16F628 chip, but thats as far as I got 
I agree a PicAxe could do the job, but I'm keen to see a PIC project, it opens up new possibilities, and more processing power. If you need any help with using VB to communicate via the serial port, let me know, I learned a few tricks with the PicLog and Charger Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| Gill Senior Member Joined: 11/11/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 669 |
Bryan, If you're going to be making a controller and a datalogger and are needing to show the superiority of the pic's processing power over the picaxe then why not strive for something a little more ambitious? What we as windmill designers need is to bring and tie all our data together over a period. By this I mean, from the battery shed_ Solar input Amps, Wind input Amps, Hydro input Amps, Load Amps, Dump Load Amps, Battery Amps in/out and Battery Voltage. Then from the windmill head_ rpm, and wind speed. And from the solar array_ light intensity. My challenge is to bring all this data together as one time related record. Firstly, I'm not suggesting this be all done by one PIC chip, rather one datalogging pic putting together a log from 3 other sources. This is something I hope to achieve in time myself. Is it too big a project target? Have you already established your goals? I'd better wait for a response before rabbiting on with further detail/ideas. was working fine... til the smoke got out. Cheers Gill _Cairns, FNQ |
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GWatPE Senior Member Joined: 01/09/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2127 |
Hi Gill, what you have described is similar in design to the VB application I posted a while back. I had provision for recording 15 inputs. The problem I see with a stand alone logger is that only raw data can seriously be recorded. To get a feel for what is happening the data has to be able to be viewed in a logical way at the same time. My system recorded a table of values that could be plottted and compared in excel etc. The data file could be viewed or copied into another application without affecting the data capture. I had a picture of the RE layout with the various components and the loads. The instantaneous data was displayed in a logical manner. I also displayed accumulated kWhr for the recording interval. There is an enormous amount of number crunching required and the data types available on a pic platform make this task difficult. My goal is to set up the logger on a PDA type computer. All it will need is a USB port and a flash memory port. The VB application will require The appropriate VBrun.dll and the USB device drivers. I had hoped to finish the real world hardware interface but I have had a lack of time. I have complicated my system with additional grid solar and another windmill. In the mean time I am making digital readouts for my two mills, so I can do a visual direct comparison of outputs. This will be with a picaxe on each mill measuring volts and amps only. Each unit will have a serial LCD attached that will display VV.VV and AA.A as well as WWW.W. These will be universal type plug in devices that can be moved for spot checking etc. There is probably no single solution to this task. I have to save up some more pennies for some more Alegro current sensors, so I can finish my system. Gordon. become more energy aware |
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| Gill Senior Member Joined: 11/11/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 669 |
I know what you mean Gordon. Everyone has their own way of approaching data and it's uses. Likewise I see a common faced problem of computer power consumption if logging data over a period. What with CRT monitor of say 400w, ATX power supply of up to 400w is all a bit much, 24hours of the day maybe over several days to just gather data. It's way more than my off-grid system could handle. I understand Bryan's choosing to build a stand alone datalogger consuming a few milliamp of power and to only turn on the computer for number-crunching once the data was collected. As I said, I have started a similar project myself so keen to help if I can though not prepared to learn Assembler coding or buy a programmer either. 
was working fine... til the smoke got out. Cheers Gill _Cairns, FNQ |
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| Bryan1 Guru Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1210 |
Hiya Guy's, I had intended to use the new 16f886 for this project but the bloke I have asked to help me is Eric and he did register in this forum under esp1 so when he makes an appearance please make him welcome. Anyway I did intend to use assembly but Eric did say the 16f886 isn't supported with Oshonsoft basic. So I reckon doing this project in basic will be a challenge for me but also for all the picaxe guy's they might find oshonsoft basic to be similar to the picaxe software but have the grunt of a full pic. I want to send Vladimir a email on doing a special offer for the pic compiler with all the goodies and hoepfully you picaxe guys might take the offer. Now the price of this software will around the price of a 40 pin picaxe or slighly more. I do suggest all the picaxe guys go and checkout oshonsoft hereand have a good think why you are still paying the ripoff prices of the picaxe. Cheers Bryan P.S. I just sent Vladimir an email on doing a pic based offer for all the pic compilers. So hopefully he will come good. If so I DO recommend all you piaxe guys seriously think about upgrading to use a real pic with a basic compiler and maybe even Gordon might be interested as with the USB pic18 support I could give him a 18f4550 USB pic to play with  |
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| esp1 Newbie  Joined: 29/05/2008 Location: United KingdomPosts: 1 |
hi Bryan, The 16F87X series PIC looks a suitable low cost upgrade for the PicAxe. Its also supported by the Oshonsoft Simulator, as you have noted. As a stand alone datalogger the 16F87X, supported with external EEPROM memory would be able store a fair amount of RE data. The onchip UART would download the 'raw' saved data to a PC, under control of the PC. I would suggest that the processing and plotting be done as at present, using the PC, after the data has been downloaded. Looking thru the RE posts and info, it looks as all the existing interfaces that the picaxe uses on its input pins, can be easily be handled by the 16F87X. Regards Eric |
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| GWatPE Senior Member Joined: 01/09/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2127 |
Hi Gill, I use a laptop for my logger. A toshiba portege, I resurected with a power converter that I made to run off my 24V battery. The total consumption is around 8W. I had never considered a desktop PC as a logger. You do need something that can run from a battery and not a UPS. Gordon. become more energy aware |
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| Gill Senior Member Joined: 11/11/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 669 |
Gee,, 8W,, Now that's getting more like it.... was working fine... til the smoke got out. Cheers Gill _Cairns, FNQ |
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| GWatPE Senior Member Joined: 01/09/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2127 |
Hi Gill, I used to work in water resources. I saw the transition from clock mechanism paper chart recorders to electronics. In those early days, solar panels were very expensive. The systems were mW power levels. These days, recording systems are much more powerful and the power level has increased. I would consider that a logging system for terrestrial use could use 1-10W of power. I am always trying to improve my own system. Gordon. become more energy aware |
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| SparWeb Senior Member Joined: 17/04/2008 Location: CanadaPosts: 196 |
...total consumption is around 8W... That's great, but what I'd love to see is a bit of software that uses a Palm Pilot or some such to hold the data. They already run on 5V, just like the piclog, and have a negligible power requirement. Of course I've looked, and can only find a few odd things that don't do much but calibrate and test machinist's tools, or adjust a microcontroller on auto tuners' nitro injectors! Steven T. Fahey |
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herbnz Senior Member Joined: 18/02/2007 Location: New ZealandPosts: 258 |
Hi Just had involvment with a professional company monitoring weather for oil platform unloading. They installed a setup that used the usb memory sticks that the locals could unplug plug new one in and send old one back to their office. Power requirements must have been min as only small solar panel for power. To me this is the ultimate take yhe stick home plug intocomputer and analyse. Herb |
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| mattvenn Newbie Joined: 31/03/2009 Location: Posts: 22 |
A while back I was working on an open source wind data logger project for a coop in spain. The idea was to save money on the professional loggers so that they could multiple locations for wind speed and then build a turbine on the best spot. I came up with a 3v (2x large capacity c cell) monitor that stored results to a 500k eeprom. The data was read out with a laptop on location. If I was doing it again, then I'd agree with herbnz above - using removable storage is a great idea. USB or even the pluggable flash drives. Remove/replace/suck out the data with a laptop and then process as needed using data analysis tools. I note that most folks are using pic based systems here. I use atmel AVR, and have see the use of SD cards for storage: http://www.arduino.cc/playground/Learning/SDMMC (1GB for 16euro!) And here is a link to a wireless sensor network project: http://www.sensor-networks.org/index.php?page=0827727742 |
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vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
So, storing on SD/MMC cards ... even with a 8pin PIC (let it be 12F683/PICAXE08M), with respect to GLenn's logger...of course, this is the small version. The maximum will be pic 16f887 (this one have an internal clock, as picaxe). The Glenn's logger can store on SD/MMC and this will be the "portable" version. And also, a raw PIC12F683 - for those which don't have the possibility to get PICAXE chips. Also, the maximum version can be both PICAXE/PIC variants (I think)... The "gadget" can be this: http://www.mikroe.com/en/tools/rs232/serial-mmc-sd/ You can send serial data to this device for storing in SD/MMC 
And, if I said something stupid, don't bother with it Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| Janne Senior Member Joined: 20/06/2008 Location: FinlandPosts: 121 |
This seems interesting. I wonder though, how the interface will work? As the mmc requires 3.3V to run, and there doesn't seem to be any other components on board, than the pic and a (propably) 3.3V regulator. Mayby the serial interace will need 3.3V levels to work? If at first you don't succeed, try again. My projects |
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| vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
I think levels are "normal" because is about rs323 standards and, you communicate with that PIC, not with memory card (there should be a doc. in pdf format)... But I'll wait for examples code... they said that the device will be available soon. They have another two devices for R/W operations on SD/MMC cards but this device it seems to be the easiest in working with. ------------------------------- Bryan, what you think about this device? Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| Janne Senior Member Joined: 20/06/2008 Location: FinlandPosts: 121 |
I'm pretty sure it won't have the RS232 standard operation levels,(+/-12V) unless the max232 chip (or equivalent) with it's 4 electrolytic caps is somehow hidden under that mmc socket. After thinking it over, the resistors propably make a potential divider for the output lines from the pic to the mmc, and the pic directly picks up the 3.3V signal from the mmc card. Anyways, be interesting to see the specs when it becames available. If at first you don't succeed, try again. My projects |
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