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Forum Index : Electronics : My attemps to make an ozinverter

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BenandAmber
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Joined: 16/02/2019
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Posted: 12:19pm 07 Jun 2019
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LadyN do you have the parts list for warpspeed inverter control board

I already have the empty board with the single cip

I would like to go ahead and order the parts while I'm ordering the parts for my NanoEdited by BenandAmber 2019-06-08
 
Tinker

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Joined: 07/11/2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 1904
Posted: 02:25pm 07 Jun 2019
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BenandAmber, it may be wise for you to put on the brakes a little. I would suggest you complete that nano inverter project to a stage so it can be put to use before you spend money on parts for a warpinverter.

As I see it with your difficulty to source suitable transformers, sourcing one sounds a lot easier than sourcing four to me. You can hone your transformer winding technique this way before you attempt to wind 4 of them.
Its not as easy as it looks if you want reliable long term performance and quiet running.

This inverter building can develop into a terrible disease so beware. I know, I'm onto building my sixth inverter but I did do them one at a time.
Klaus
 
BenandAmber
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Posted: 02:28am 08 Jun 2019
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Thanks Tinker for the advice

I've already have all the Transformers 4 the warp speed inverter

I have four APC Transformers just the like the six that's on this post

I also have a larger 3 or 4000 Watt single one


I'll be using square ones

I want to have all the parts here so when I get the time

Hate waiting on the slow boat

I'll be able to work on it but the Nano will be first

have waited way too long for it not to be
Very excited about it

And you're 100% right it is very addictive

I want to have a backup for my backup
Edited by BenandAmber 2019-06-09
 
arthur8
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Joined: 08/05/2019
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Posted: 11:19pm 10 Jun 2019
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  ltopower said   Here is a rough outline.... the text did not qork quite as intended..




Hi!

This looks to be an good idea.

Those are my ongrid inverters:

Maybe i could reconfigure them for that? But they don't have any current sensing/CT on them. :-(

 
arthur8
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Posted: 11:24pm 10 Jun 2019
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  LadyN said   arthur8, have you found links to the various Warpverter related information here?

If not, please let me know.

I started by creating a post that was meant to consolidate these links but this forum does not let one edit older posts that have been replied to, so that first post is now incomplete as I cannot update it anymore.

The Warpverter can be used to scale from a few kW to many kW without changing the fundamental design.

The biggest painpoint with the Warpverter, which is currently blocking all of us who are in the U.S. is the availability of cheap transformers - an issue that's just not a problem for you since you have way more than what you will need.

The ozInverter focuses all its power on one single transformer, while the Warpverter spreads it across multiple ones with each stage decreasing the THD and increasing the power output.

It's also a low freq. design - makes things easier to follow, diagnose and maintain.

LadyN,

Thank you again for helping me out over PM.

I've read the idea and just loved it. But it looks extremely complicated (on my knowledge). But i've just loved the idea and *of course* i will be making some tries on the warpverters looks like the future.

It is just fantastic and of course i will try it out.

Thank you and all the involved people based on this fantastic project.
 
arthur8
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Posted: 11:31pm 10 Jun 2019
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  ltopower said   Wow, very impressed with the capacitor setup. I think it is the first home power pack I have seen with that many supercaps.
You say each is 350F and by the looks of it you have around 588 caps, so at 2.7V charge you have about 330Wh of capacity ?

They are charged up to 58V (max). That will be about 2V on each capacitor.

They are just fantastic. Highly recommended for any system, considering they are getting cheaper and cheaper every day.


What voltage range do you run the capacitors over ?

R: The battery bank is 56 to 58V MAX, so they are charged maximum to ~2V. They are each rated to 2.5V.


Another option for getting 10kW output is to use a standard inverter build and then attach one or more grid tie inverters that has a CT and feedback (typically used for a zero export setup)

So you end up with :

OZ Inverter --CT------------ House / demand
| |
2kW Grid Tie Inverter ---|
|
2kW Grid Tie Inverter ---|


The Oz would handle the initial switching load change and then the grid tie units would then add supply and back off the Oz Inverter to handle the faster changes.

This is the setup that I intend to have for the house, using a 10kW inverter to only ever supply 5kW and the other 2x2kW units providing an overall continuous capacity of 11kW.


R: I think now i've understood your idea. Do you mean that ozinverter could accept grid tie inverters?

What would happen if the inverter have no load? Grid tie would inject power inside the mosfets and could blow them, maybe?

Excelent idea, by the way.






Edited by arthur8 2019-06-12
 
arthur8
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Posted: 11:39pm 10 Jun 2019
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  BenandAmber said   Thanks Tinker for the advice

I've already have all the Transformers 4 the warp speed inverter

I have four APC Transformers just the like the six that's on this post

I also have a larger 3 or 4000 Watt single one


I'll be using square ones

I want to have all the parts here so when I get the time

Hate waiting on the slow boat

I'll be able to work on it but the Nano will be first

have waited way too long for it not to be
Very excited about it

And you're 100% right it is very addictive

I want to have a backup for my backup


Looks nice. Those APC transformers are fantastic, aren't they? On my tests they really hold up some good power.
 
BenandAmber
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Joined: 16/02/2019
Location: United States
Posts: 791
Posted: 12:51am 11 Jun 2019
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I've never tried them out so I would like to hear anything you have to say about them

If I remember correctly they are rated at 3000 VA but I could be wrong about that

Would enjoy hearing about your testing so I know what mine will do

They are extremely heavyEdited by BenandAmber 2019-06-12
 
renewableMark

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Joined: 09/12/2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 1423
Posted: 07:49am 11 Jun 2019
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Arthur, you can feed the Ozinverter, or Warpinverter's AC or "mini grid" with AC from a GTI being fed by it's own panels.

Problem is it will keep pumping out as much as it can as that's how a GTI is meant to work.

Feeding one of our systems like that will boil the batteries and stuff them.

Solution is to use a Mad GTI control board.

The dc output from the panels goes through the GTI controller and only feeds the GTI with as much power as your settings will allow.
IE it throttles up and down the DC input to the GTI.

They are in THIS THREAD toward the end somewhere.

BTW it will also PWM (dc60v in my case for 48v system) to your batteries too (top fets) bottom fets are for GTI input/output.


As you can see I'm only using the PWM currently.

Of course, that power from the GTI is only available when they are making power in sunny conditions.
If you need 10kw or so at night you'll need to come up with another idea. Edited by renewableMark 2019-06-12
Cheers Caveman Mark
Off grid eastern Melb
 
arthur8
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Posts: 69
Posted: 12:25pm 11 Jun 2019
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  BenandAmber said   I've never tried them out so I would like to hear anything you have to say about them

If I remember correctly they are rated at 3000 VA but I could be wrong about that

Would enjoy hearing about your testing so I know what mine will do

They are extremely heavy


Two of those APC transformers will do 4kW happily. But you had to make a good ventilation system.

They are very easy to convert your system to 24V, too. One transformer runs at 24V and two transformers in series runs at 48V.

One transformer is for APC 1500VA series (24V) and two transformers in series are for APC 3000VA series (like APC 3000xli)
 
arthur8
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Joined: 08/05/2019
Location: Brazil
Posts: 69
Posted: 12:42pm 11 Jun 2019
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  renewableMark said   Arthur, you can feed the Ozinverter, or Warpinverter's AC or "mini grid" with AC from a GTI being fed by it's own panels.

Problem is it will keep pumping out as much as it can as that's how a GTI is meant to work.

Feeding one of our systems like that will boil the batteries and stuff them.

Solution is to use a Mad GTI control board.

The dc output from the panels goes through the GTI controller and only feeds the GTI with as much power as your settings will allow.
IE it throttles up and down the DC input to the GTI.

They are in THIS THREAD toward the end somewhere.

BTW it will also PWM (dc60v in my case for 48v system) to your batteries too (top fets) bottom fets are for GTI input/output.


As you can see I'm only using the PWM currently.

Of course, that power from the GTI is only available when they are making power in sunny conditions.
If you need 10kw or so at night you'll need to come up with another idea.


Hi Mark.

I will read this topic now.

That is a very good idea. But didn't know that ozconverter was able to 'accept' grid tie outputs on its input.

How it is possible that the batteries will be charged? I can understand how a H-bridge inverter works, but can't understand how grid tie can inject AC on the inverter, rectify them and convert again to DC to charge the batteries.

Anyway, very nice to know!

I've just bought some boards from Madness (that includes the GTI board), i will be using them for sure to limit my grid tie. My power consumption during the day will be 1~2kW with peaks of 8kW.

At night, just some 500W loads.

Thanks again for your help!
 
Madness

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Posted: 09:36pm 11 Jun 2019
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Connecting GTI's does indeed charge the battery via our off-grid inverters. It also has the advantages of utilizing the GTIs MPPT and high efficiency for running loads during daylight hours. Combined with the GTI Regulator PCB you can also charge your battery correctly. Also the Regulator PCB can be used to control things like hot water heater with power that would otherwise not be used. I also use to control an air conditioner for the room where my inverters and battery is.

There were some teething problems with earlier versions, but it now runs very reliably. Mine has been running perfectly for well over a year now.
There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.
 
arthur8
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Location: Brazil
Posts: 69
Posted: 12:17am 12 Jun 2019
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  Madness said   Connecting GTI's does indeed charge the battery via our off-grid inverters. It also has the advantages of utilizing the GTIs MPPT and high efficiency for running loads during daylight hours. Combined with the GTI Regulator PCB you can also charge your battery correctly. Also the Regulator PCB can be used to control things like hot water heater with power that would otherwise not be used. I also use to control an air conditioner for the room where my inverters and battery is.

There were some teething problems with earlier versions, but it now runs very reliably. Mine has been running perfectly for well over a year now.


Hey Mad.

Thanks for stopping by.

I can't understand how backfeed works on this case, but i like it a lot.

I have lots of usage for the GTI regulators boards like enable the air conditioner, hot water (rarely needed), mining rig (800W of power consumption).

This board is just fantastic.
 
BenandAmber
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Posted: 07:24pm 12 Jun 2019
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Thanks for the info on that APC UPS Transformers
 
arthur8
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Posted: 04:08pm 20 Jun 2019
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Updated post belowEdited by arthur8 2019-06-23
 
arthur8
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Posted: 11:30pm 21 Jun 2019
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Some progress.

The BMS lithium board:






16s, it have some spare space if i need to increase the voltage of the bank.

Each "S" will be connected to this and when the voltage is > 4.20V, it powers on the resistor. This will avoid problems with unbalancing on the battery bank.

==========================

The relay sequencer:

Since i don't like sparks and fire, and i'm working this big capacitor bank, i was on need of some more safety.

I've seen the sparks that one of those Maxwell's capacitors can create and i can't imagine what all those capacitors wired up can make in therms of fire and sparks in case of a problem.

So i will use some relays to avoid unecessary fire and damage.

This solar room is very small and it will have some smoke sensors.

If any smoke is detected (or excessive current passing to the Current Transformers), the alarm will beep and all five relays boxes will be shutdown turning off the entire system. Since the solar panels to the inverter.

Or, in case of a maintenance, i can just turn off the entire system easily and safely.

For turning everything back on, i can't just turn them all on at the same time, so i will be using a relay sequencer:



It will turn the solar panels to controller first, after two seconds the controller to capacitor bank and so on.

It have 5 channels (one channel per relay box) and will turn on each relay box at time on this order:



Each relay box has two to five 120A (real rating is about 50A to 70A) chinese relays. They are dirt cheap so i'm putting a lot of them in parallel.

Here is what is already done, the relays that will connect the lithium battery bank (on the left) and the capacitor bank (on the right) to the inverter.



The 5 relays on the right will give us about 350~400A of surge capacity at 42V (nominal system voltage will be about 56 to 59V).

Later a video will be made showing it working.

A suggestion about those relays:
They work at 12V, but i've found that 10.7V are better for avoiding their coil overheating and fail on some time of use.

Edited by arthur8 2019-06-23
 
arthur8
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Posted: 11:47pm 21 Jun 2019
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This beauty arrived today:





Very heavy.

This will turn when batteries are drained, in case of some rainy days. They provide 53.5v and 93A.Edited by arthur8 2019-06-23
 
arthur8
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Posted: 06:45pm 18 Nov 2019
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Hi Friends.

Was traveling and paused a bit the project to wait some components from China.

The boards already arrived (thanks for Bruce!).

And i would like to report a problem on the forum.

I've been trying to access the forum since ~1 month ago (on different locations) and it didn't worked at all.

It simply not worked, even on AirBNB/hotel wifi connections and not on my home connection, too. This started since ~1 month ago.

Looks like the entire country is unable to access the forum.

I'm using a OpenVPN proxy (from Miami) to access it.
 
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