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Forum Index : Electronics : Latronics PVE 1200-2500

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Old Seagull Man
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Joined: 21/12/2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 18
Posted: 08:42am 08 Feb 2020
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Hi All.

I have been given a couple of PVE 1200 grid  tie inverters.
An they seam well made and have quite a low PV voltage input.About 100v max.

Has anyone any experience with these, i understand the MPPT can be disconnected and they can be run of a 48 volt battery bank.

Andrew
 
Davo99
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Joined: 03/06/2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 493
Posted: 01:55am 10 Feb 2020
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I have a 2000W Latronics and that is 200V.
They seem a very robust if not the most efficent unit.  I seem to get a bit better power out of the same array at the same time from a more modern electronic unit. Not complaining, I'll take the old school unit any day and pay a few watts for having it.

No Idea about running them direct, I'm happy with mine just the way it is.  :0)
Wouldn't mind a few more even if keeping the voltage down is bit of a pain especially with the newer 56V panels.
 
renewableMark

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Joined: 09/12/2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 1564
Posted: 04:17am 29 Apr 2020
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  Old Seagull Man said  Hi All.

I have been given a couple of PVE 1200 grid  tie inverters.
An they seam well made and have quite a low PV voltage input.About 100v max.

Has anyone any experience with these, i understand the MPPT can be disconnected and they can be run of a 48 volt battery bank.

Andrew


If you are talking about the 1200 edge, no it can't run direct off batteries.

It has a dip switch to flick so it doesn't overcharge a battery bank, if it's connected in the system with another "off grid inverter" that has batteries.

The edge is purely a feed from solar only inverter.

It's confusing, but download the manual and you'll get it.

They can be used to backfeed a Oz/Madinverter type unit.
I tried one on my nanoverter but it didn't like it, it kept coming up with fault of some sort.

I never tried it with a mad control board hooked up, but Gary has used other GTI's with it fine for a number of years.

I'm hoping it will play nicely with the Warpinverter.
Cheers Caveman Mark
Off grid eastern Melb
 
Warpspeed
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Joined: 09/08/2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 3261
Posted: 04:22am 29 Apr 2020
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Klaus has been successfully back feeding his Warpverter without any problems.
Cheers, Tony.
 
Old Seagull Man
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Joined: 21/12/2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 18
Posted: 11:31am 29 Apr 2020
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  Warpspeed said  Klaus has been successfully back feeding his Warpverter without any problems.



Thanks guy for the info. but now im more confused.

extracted for the pv edge manual pdf.


DC WIRING
The Inverter is designed to operate directly from a photovoltaic supply.


If other sources of DC input are required e.g wind turbines, micro
hydro turbines etc, a battery bank will be required with the Maximum
Power Point Tracking (MPPT) disabled (see pg 7.)


Page 7.

DIP SWITCH SETTINGS
Switch 1 -MPPT / Battery mode
Switch 2 - 50/60 Hz
Switch 4
Switch 5
Switch 6
In the ON position the Maximum Power Point Tracking is enabled.
This is required when the DC input is Photovoltaic Solar Modules only.
In the OFF position the Maximum Power Point Tracking is disabled and the
voltage tracking will operate at a fixed voltage of 54V (PVE1200) or 108V
(PVE2500). This setting is required in a system where a 48V (PVE1200) or
96V (PVE2500) Battery Bank is required on the DC input.


This is why i thought it, would work. At least that's the impression it seems to
gives. So thanks for the heads up..

Andrew.
 
renewableMark

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Joined: 09/12/2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 1564
Posted: 09:29pm 29 Apr 2020
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If you look at P7 of the manual here
It shows how a battery can be used in the system, but the edge can't run by itself on battery as it has anti islanding.

The manual is confusing with the wording (Queenslanders) but it appears you can connect it up with another "LS" pure sine inverter and then the edge will run off battery.
The LS is another inverter model they make which is a truly off grid inverter.
Cheers Caveman Mark
Off grid eastern Melb
 
Old Seagull Man
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Joined: 21/12/2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 18
Posted: 07:47am 30 Apr 2020
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Hi Mark

And thank you for all your help..
And mybe this might help.


but the edge can't run by itself on battery as it has anti islanding.sland.  

I think this is were i have you confused. Or its that i live in Queensland.
In my workshop we have two 48v 1250 ah forklift battery packs.They were in storage with one of our customers. But somehow they ended up in my shed. when he closed down.

The charger was left with him, but its 3 phase, so he couldn't charge the packs.
I have 415 so every now and then i would charge them, so they were ok. Guess that's way he left them for me.

This was the thinking. My nighttime power usage is about 1500 watts.
So the idea was to plug the 1250 watt grid inverter into the mains, after hours and  turn of the MPPT control. and connect it to the 48v forklift pack. And use that as the night time solar power. The anti islanding, shouldn't be a problem. as it connected to the mains. But but instead of the panels delivering 30 to 70 volts, at up  to 20 amps.

The battery provides 48volts. At full output of 1250 watts the inverter draws about 25 amps. So it should not discharge the 1250 AH Pack that much over night. And I do have two of them, so I'm not to worried.

We have 10kw on the roof, as 3 phase, so i can charge them for free, now. As our FIT have dropped again, so i might as well get something for my money.

Hope that makes my madness somewhat less Queenslandic, and matbe telling you this at the start might have been a help..

Thanks for your patients, Andrew.
Edited 2020-04-30 17:50 by Old Seagull Man
 
Davo99
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Joined: 03/06/2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 493
Posted: 08:35am 30 Apr 2020
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  Old Seagull Man said  

So the idea was to plug the 1250 watt grid inverter into the mains, after hours and  turn of the MPPT control. and connect it to the 48v forklift pack. And use that as the night time solar power. The anti islanding, shouldn't be a problem. as it connected to the mains.
The battery provides 48volts. At full output of 1250 watts the inverter draws about 25 amps. So it should not discharge the 1250 AH Pack that much over night. And I do have two of them, so I'm not to worried.


Very interesting!

Would the inverter not try to provide the full 1250 W regardless of the load you had on it and try to backfeed to the grid? These are pretty basic units and I doubt they are smart enough to have zero back feed..... although I'd be happy if mine could do that!

Ok if you have a meter you can spin backwards but if not, you will be loosing money on excess power and you will have to switch it off at night to stop the back feed when you go to bed.
Edited 2020-04-30 18:47 by Davo99
 
Old Seagull Man
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Joined: 21/12/2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 18
Posted: 08:46am 30 Apr 2020
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The fact that the inverter would give out its full 1250 watts wont matter. As we consume, between 1500 and 1700 watts all night. So no power would return to the grid.

We would still be using 200 or 300 watts from the grid anyway. This would mean i would get 1250 watts of that for free.

I have the battery the solar, and the inverter.

So i might have a go.
 
Davo99
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Location: Australia
Posts: 493
Posted: 08:48am 30 Apr 2020
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In that case sounds like you are on a winner.

Out of curiosity Andrew, what do you run that uses that power all Night?
 
Old Seagull Man
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Location: Australia
Posts: 18
Posted: 10:31am 30 Apr 2020
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I was going to say the grow lights, for the crop.

But no just a couple of very boring servers, that run 24, 7 for my sons computer business.
 
Warpspeed
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Joined: 09/08/2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 3261
Posted: 11:16am 30 Apr 2020
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Just check that the inverter has an inbuilt current limit.

If not, the mppt will try to draw more and more power from the battery chasing a power peak that keeps growing larger and larger.....

That might let the smoke out  

Most of these grid tie inverters specify some maximum wattage of installed panels, so the panels themselves create an inherent power limitation, so there is no requirement to artificially limit the current within the inverter.

Most likely scenario I would expect is it just runs for a short while, and then shuts down with maybe some kind of error code or message.
Edited 2020-04-30 21:29 by Warpspeed
Cheers, Tony.
 
renewableMark

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Joined: 09/12/2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 1564
Posted: 09:34pm 30 Apr 2020
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  Old Seagull Man said  Hi Mark

...................
So the idea was to plug the 1250 watt grid inverter into the mains, after hours and  turn of the MPPT control. and connect it to the 48v forklift pack.


Oh now you tell us........

Yes that makes a big difference.

If you flip the dip switch to battery the mppt will be switched off.

If you have a smart meter the power co may question why you are feeding at night, dunno how detailed their systems are. If you use more than produced it won't be a problem, but you'll never be able to control that entirely.


VERY nice battery storage!!!!
Holy F, total of 2500Ah @48v, that's the biggest I have heard anyone had on a home system.

You are better off using the batteries and keeping the electrolyte circulating, having them sitting there isn't great for them, so yeah put them to use and keep the sulphation away.

Have you thought about making a Oz/Madinverter?
Edited 2020-05-01 07:41 by renewableMark
Cheers Caveman Mark
Off grid eastern Melb
 
renewableMark

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Location: Australia
Posts: 1564
Posted: 10:07pm 30 Apr 2020
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Not sure how much you know about the fork batteries, but be careful when charging as they give off hydrogen, and a small amount of acidic mist.

I made a pyramid shaped hood for mine from coreflute, it's not effected by the mist and it's cheap, easy to cut and just tape it together with that HD cloth tape from buggerings.
You can buy big 2400x 1200 sheets of coreflute from signwriters supply shops, should be $50-60 for two sheets.
Cheers Caveman Mark
Off grid eastern Melb
 
Davo99
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Joined: 03/06/2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 493
Posted: 01:09am 02 May 2020
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  renewableMark said  Not sure how much you know about the fork batteries, but be careful when charging as they give off hydrogen, and a small amount of acidic mist.


Small Marine Bilge blower fan would be good for the job with the hood. They are all plastic for corrosion so would be impervious to the acid. Keep the air in the hood pulling off the gasses and vent them outside. Either that or tap it direct out the batteries and store/ Burn it.

Won't catch me doing that. I made a Solar powered Hydrogen generator summer before last out of a couple of 240L Plastic drums. Worked real well. Bled it off a few times to get all the oxygen out ( oxygen was vented from the Process) and then started production in earnest.

I tapped some Hydrogen off into a plastic sandwich bag to see how it burned expecting a lazy, rich flame like one would get with methane or LPG.
Nearly blew my damn head off with the bang it made! From a plastic sandwich bag!
Hydrogen ( as I then stupidly discovered) has a huge Explosion ratio with air.  Most things are a fairly Narrow in air to fuel to burn but Hydrogen is from here to thar and then some.

Nope, no way I can be certain to never get any air in it. That's not something a hacker like me has the skills and precision to play with. Disconnected it all, Vented out the couple of Hundred litres of gas I had stored and turned the setup into a Methane Digester. Will never play with Hydrogen again. That is for people with better skills or less of a sense of personal preservation than me.  I consider myself very lucky. I could have really had a bad accident with my ignorance. Assuming it was much like other things was a BAD and stupid error on my part that was for sure.  Took about 30 Sec of searching on the net to find the LEL and UEL and frightened the heck out of me some more.

Shame with the hydrogen because I have loads of power in summer to make the stuff with but the way that little sandwich bag went off, Frightened the crap out of me because it was the polar opposite of what I was expecting.  Only other thing I have seen do that is Acetylene and I had to make sure to get the oxygen Mix Right for that.  If that was a 200L drum of Hydrogen with some leaked air,..... I could Blow a big shed to pieces with that no problem at all.

How these Guys have the ignorance or balls to play with that HHO/ browns gas where you have the Hydrogen and oxygen mixed together in the same Fuel supply pipe is beyond me.

Make sure to have a positive airflow with the batteries when Charging them.  I have several old car radiator fans hooked to panels and as you would most likely be charging through the day, these would be ideal. You could make a housing and connect them to draw air through the hood and really give the batteries some ventilation.

Corflute if often available on fleabay Cheap as left over packing material. I bought some thin stuff for $4 a sheet a while back.  Doubled it up and it was fine for what I needed.


2500ah@ 48V  = 120Kwh.  Adequate!  :0)
One thing to have the capacity but boy, that's sure going to take some recharging!
You would want a good solar array for that

If ever I go off grid it will be with forklift packs. Best bang for the buck I can find  and an old and proven Tech. Heavy, Bulky and need some minimal maintence but not concerns for me. I looked at them recently and a pack that I could buy for $1800 was worth $650+ as scrap and that's now.  In 10 years time when it was finished....  Going to keep pace with inflation at least.
 
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