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Forum Index : Electronics : Shocking insight into fake chips
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CaptainBoing Guru  Joined: 07/09/2016 Location: United KingdomPosts: 1985 |
I have no problem with recycling - we should all be doing it, but this vid shows the scale of counterfeiting that goes on where components are recovered from old kit, "recycled" and sold as new stock... in itself that is bad enough but the chips often receive an upgrade in the process and often times they don't even care about the chip so long as its got the right package and pins... You want a 6116 2Kx8 static RAM? You could end up with a 16 channel analogue multiplexer in the same package badged up to look like a 6116. Check this still from the vid:  three IC's. Identical part number, identical date code, identical batch - DIFFERENT CASINGS this absolutely cannot happen! and the sellers don't care they want your $$$ and will stoop to any cheat necessary to get them. I know it's not a new phenomenon but it never occurred that a 6116 might be a 4534. You might get lucky and get what you want but new $ for old? and maybe "upcycled" to mil-spec or different speed rating? cheeky basts! "enjoy" https://youtu.be/k72SFBOZ_lw   |
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| Pete Locke Senior Member  Joined: 26/06/2013 Location: New ZealandPosts: 178 |
Very interesting link, confirming that this sort of thing does indeed happen. |
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| Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1577 |
I'm looking at getting Mosfets. Prices range on fleabay about $20 For the same part. Anyway to tell which is a good buy for a genuine component and which is a fake ripoff? |
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| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
If you buy from one of the larger reputable component houses, you should be pretty right, but expect to pay more. If you buy cheap from Mr Foo in China, you may be in luck, or maybe not... Cheers, Tony. |
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| FFTandMe Newbie  Joined: 11/10/2019 Location: CanadaPosts: 32 |
I recently had a fake chip experience. In my case it was for HY4008W mosfets. I ordered a set from Aliexpress from a seller whose pictures showed mosfets that matched the specs provided by Hooyi so i ordered them. When they arrived the markings were not what was advertised. On top of that the case itself was smaller than the HY4008's in my inverter board and when I got them on a bench the Rds(on) was measuring 101milliohm!! After going through the dispute process and my credit card company I got my money back and decided to try LCSC based on feedback I had seen from others. Their chips arrived and once again the markings didn't match! The difference this time is that Hooyi sent out two notices to vendors (but never made it into any spec sheet I could find) that indicated they were changing their font and changing the coding on the front of the mosfet. The ones I have right now at least are the correct size packaging compared to what I have installed. I don't have access to my work's test bench to check Rds(on) but given what LCSC has to lose I seriously doubt these are fakes. In any event, Aliexpress really is the "wild west" of electronics shopping. Always use a credit card that gives you fraud protection and document everything if you use aliexpress to buy parts because photo stealing is rampant. |
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| genetrySid Newbie Joined: 05/09/2020 Location: United StatesPosts: 8 |
+1 for fake junk from China. I had this happen to me; fortunately, AliExpress mediated the dispute in my favor, and I got a refund. Bought a package of BD93291 dual-output step down converters from AliExpress to save a lot of $$$ vs buying from Mouser. Looked good, had the right part number and everything, sealed in the tape-and-reel ready for feeding into an SMT placement machine... But after soldering one on the board, there was a peculiar dead short across the power supply. You guessed it: it was the "BD93291". Tried 3 of them, same problem. Ended up buying all genuine from Mouser--and the problem vanished. If the dodgy sellers had any half-attempt to get somewhere close, I'm suspecting they relabeled some BD9329A chips...very similar part number, but instead of a dual-output converter, it's only a single-output converter with a completely different pinout (despite being the same package). Of course anyone running Windoze has probably run into the problem with fake FT232 ICs--that's pretty much all you're going to get from China. They worked great until FTDI figured out that they were being cheated--and updated the Windoze driver to set the fake chips' USB PID and VID to zero (as the official chips won't allow changing these numbers), effectively causing them to disappear from Device Manager. After some backlash, they released an updated driver that endlessly reads out a string from the driver telling you that the FT232 is fake--still rendering it useless. I got bit with one of those chips after plugging it into a newer Windoze computer--it worked fine until that point ;-). Rolled the driver back, found an editor to re-set the PID and VID to get it to work again, otherwise I was up a creek with no paddle. At any rate, I ordered a different converter chip--now I use CH340G, CP2102 or other USB-serial options. And Ubuntu  .Now trying to get a good price on CS5463 chips...the "genuine" price is somewhere between $1.77-$2.30 depending on source and quantity. Found a seller on eBay advertising 100pcs for the equivalent price of $0.77/ea. Asked for a photo of the chip...I guess their first mistake was sending me a photo of a "CS5463" that wasn't the same as the listing photo. Nah, don't think I'm going to buy a CS5463 that is missing the "Cirrus Semi" logo across the top...I bought from Mouser! Edited 2020-12-29 10:00 by genetrySid |
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Haxby Guru Joined: 07/07/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 418 |
I have never bought chips from dodgy sources till yesterday actually! Always from Digi-Key, rs, mouser,element14.... We will see what comes in the mail in 3 months time. when you are trying to get a new design going, you don't want that extra unknown variable in your bug fixing stage. And if you want the design to work reliably over a long time, you just can't be questioning the quality of the components. Especially electrolytic capacitors and power components. Now in the last week, as I contemplated building a 3 phase warpverter, I thought that since it will be just for fun and I won't be relying on it, won't be selling it, well, might as well try out cheaper components from AliExpress. Also I don't have a deadline to get something going, so waiting 3 months for some crap to arrive isn't going to annoy me too much. Well the prices are good..... A tenth of the price of Digi-Key. But I'll be checking every component before it gets soldered, that's for sure. I bought 60 X hcpl3120 opto drivers at $2.18 per 10 pack! The RS price is $2.90 just for one of the suckers! Same for IGBTs and MOSFETs. I still can't bring myself to buy electrolytics from anywhere but the quality places. Even for this hobby project. I've seen too many dry out and fail. |
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| Haxby Guru Joined: 07/07/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 418 |
Reminds me of this gem:  |
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| BenandAmber Guru Joined: 16/02/2019 Location: United StatesPosts: 961 |
Guess i have been lucky I have never received a fake i could be to ignorant to know the difference lol I just ordered all they had of the hy5608 360 amp I use the same store as most of you guys did on the hy4008 i think it is aztec everything els i have ordered i make sure there is over 15 good reviews The little 4 mosfet china board is getting a up grade with the hy5608 I want to see how much wattage i can get out of it just for kicks and giggles I will video testing it if anyone wants to see I will also be using hy5608 in one of my PJ inverters "thanks kent" It has a GS control and wi fi board I beefed up the as4 tranny with a extra 12 gauge winding on the high side and a all new bigger low side winding The core gets hot spots at around 3500 watts So it had to go also Not much PJ left that is a good thing!! lol Back on subject i have had the wrong part come two times Both times i was not mad not about the very little money i was mad about the shipping time to reorder the right part Both times the seller was so good to me i felt bad about being mad and did not want a refund Please keep in mind i use sellers that people on hear told me to or who have over 15 good reviews One time the price seemed to low so i texted the guy told him i didt want to wast his or my time and he gave me a link to real ones So i think if you do as stated above and its just a hobby to ya you will be mostly happy If you are a EE and programer working for a inverter company ordering less common parts like maybe some of the other post on here you may not want to take chances Over all i am happy ordering from aliexpress and ebay But i do order from digakey when it has to work first time be warned i am good parrot but Dumber than a box of rocks |
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Grogster Admin Group  Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9051 |
I think most of us have been bitten by the China fakes at one point or another. I bought some LM350's, but they blew up with anything more then 2A load. Cutting one open, revealed a die that was smaller then the specs said in the 350 PDF it should be. Seller tried to tell me that: "Don't use more then 1A and they will be fine." ....that is NOT what a genuine 350 can do. They can easily do 3A with the correct input-output differential, which I was using(about 3.5v difference). They were labelled as LM350K's, but you could easily rub-off the printing with your finger, and as I said above - most certainly not capable of more then 1.5A maximum - about what you would expect from LM317's, which is what I think they actually were, relabeled as 350's..... Don't buy chips from AliExpress or eBay - they are more then likely fake. Costs more from a genuine seller, but there is a reason for that, and you get what you pay for. Both with a genuine seller, and the cheap fakes. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| CaptainBoing Guru Joined: 07/09/2016 Location: United KingdomPosts: 1985 |
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| rogerdw Guru Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 792 |
I've been caught more than once. Bought a heap of PIC16C57 and PIC16F84 micros ... then wondered why a number that I used only lasted a few weeks to months in action. Took a while to wake up that they were simply unreliable and went back to genuine ... and my problem went away. I've also had a lot of trouble with SRAM chips that are no longer available from mainstream suppliers ... and the ones I've sourced from China often do not work. As well as flash memory chips ... ... they look like brand new and are nicely packaged in the plastic trays with sealing tape ... but when I check them before programming ... some are already programmed with various random code!!! Clearly not new. When I do need to chase chips that are no longer available from the mainstream guys ... I always go to UTSource .com They have proven reliable so far ... but it is important to take note of the descriptions ... if they have new chips they are listed as new ... .. but will also list secondhand ones as well ... at cheaper prices. If they have new, I always go for new. It's only if they don't list new that I have to take a chance with their used. Take care to note that if UTSource don't have the required chips themselves ... they usually list other suppliers that have them, and their prices ... and THEY are the ones I have had trouble with ... I just won't bother with them any more. Cheers, Roger |
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thwill Guru Joined: 16/09/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 3830 |
Is this only for high value IC's or does the same go for 4000 and 7400 series jelly-bean DIPs intended for hobby circuits? I tend to go Chinese because I resent paying the high postage on small quantities from the big guys. Best wishes, Tom Edited 2020-12-29 22:38 by thwill Game*Mite, CMM2 Welcome Tape, Creaky old text adventures |
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| rogerdw Guru Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 792 |
I can't answer your question Tom ... but I'd be surprised if it applies much to really common chips ... ... but I hear where you're coming from. Until 10 years ago I never would have risked buying stuff out of China ... but I was desperate for some 80 pin NEC micros to fix some equipment. I took months to find a supplier in the US ... but then they quoted me $123 each for the chips ... and $156 in freight to send them out here to Australia. The chips are no bigger than my thumbnail ... so 4 of them could have been stuck to a piece of paper and shoved in an envelope ... for a few dollars. I was so tickled off, especially after waiting so long to find a supplier, that I figured it was worth the risk to try China. They cost me around $4.50 each ... plus a bit of freight ... maybe $25 ... and I also ordered a heap of other chips I hadn't been able to find from mainstream suppliers. As mentioned above, I have been caught out a few times ... but I have fixed a ton of gear with parts I simply could not find anywhere else. Cheers, Roger |
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| CaptainBoing Guru Joined: 07/09/2016 Location: United KingdomPosts: 1985 |
with Flash RAM, the random code thing seems to be feature of brand new chips - perhaps as part of the functional test(?) The first (and each subsequent) erase clears the memory cells to a known state. I've worked with loads of absolutely genuine Winbond devices and (every time I checked/been caught-out) they all have random data on first power up. All erased just fine and have settled into sterling work. Edited 2020-12-29 23:53 by CaptainBoing |
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| genetrySid Newbie Joined: 05/09/2020 Location: United StatesPosts: 8 |
I can definitely recommend LCSC Electronics for dirt cheap prices on a lot of regular parts. They don't sell junk though, and as a result, in some case, Mouser can be cheaper (one instance I've found are Keystone PCB mount screw terminals...probably due to the shipping weight.) But $40 worth of thermistors from Mouser cost only $8 from LCSC. A TIP142 darlington transistor selling for $1.40 (@10pcs) from Mouser was a comparatively stunning bargain at $0.81 (@10pcs) from LCSC. Shipping isn't outrageous either, especially if you use an economy shipping method (8-20 days). Perhaps the most frustrating "China part" issue I've gotten bitten by is the venerable TL431. So you thought a TL431 is a TL431 is a TL431, right? Try buying one from China. Before you throw the whole reel into the trash in frustration...here's the deal: It's probably a CJ431. Identical to the TL432. What's the TL432 you might ask? It's a TL431 with a different pinout. Sheesh! I've learned to specify the CJ431, that way I know what I'm getting. Of course, it's possible to use a CJ431 in place of a TL431...if you don't mind flipping the little SOT-23 over, bending the leads the opposite direction, and soldering it in place upside-down  . |
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| nickskethisniks Guru Joined: 17/10/2017 Location: BelgiumPosts: 409 |
@ GenetrySid, I got the same issue with an smd 7805 voltage regulator... |
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| rogerdw Guru Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 792 |
Wow, I had no idea. I'll pay more attention when I program flash chips from other suppliers. I don't replace a huge number but when I do, I usually program them before fitting. I never used to check to see if they were blank ... just program and fit them ... but it was the checksum that caught my eye one day. I thought, that's not a blank chip!!! Cheers, Roger |
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| rogerdw Guru Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 792 |
For some reason I settled on buying the majority of my parts from element14 ... and now if I'm looking for a reasonable qty of an item, I often ask for a quote. I never used to but I had an account manager there who kept telling me to ask him for a quote. Eventually I did and he gave me a massive discount ... so of course I kept doing it. To give you some idea ... when I looked at the total spare parts spend for the first year after doing this ... the total was about $20 less than HALF of the previous years spend. Totally amazing. Some parts had very little discount but I recall some parts having as much as 90% off. I felt sure he was going to get the sack for his crazy discounting ... but who was I to argue. Eventually he moved on (inside element14) and the discounts got less and less ... but for large quantities and for expensive bits, still well worth doing. In fact, about 6 months ago I got a new account manager again and she has been very generous as well ... so I have been buying up big on some of the bits I use a lot of. So if anyone needs some really expensive bits from there, definitely ask for a quote first. There's a form on the site where you can fill in details of what you want and you'll get an answer within a few hours or at worst, the next day. Cheers, Roger |
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| CaptainBoing Guru Joined: 07/09/2016 Location: United KingdomPosts: 1985 |
I wrote a pure MMBasic set of routines for another Shedder (the target platform couldn't use PeteM's CSubs) and it specifically mentions this phenomenon when discussing the WB.Format statement, here about halfway down. |
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