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Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9750
Posted: 02:23am 21 Nov 2017
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Version 1A was the prototype - only a few people have that one. Version 1B was the first official release - most people have that one. Version 1C adds the on-board 1455 USB interface.
Version 1D will have the 1455 also, but I am planning to get rid of the footprint for the CP2102 USB-serial module(which is optional anyway), and also planning to discontinue CON6, which is the standard console pins, because these are now directly connected to the 1455 USB interface, so there should be no need to have them anymore, as the console now effectively has become a native USB connection as standard now on any MM using the 1455 chip.
Do any of the members here have any major problems with that concept?Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops!
WhiteWizzard Guru Joined: 05/04/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2959
Posted: 03:57am 21 Nov 2017
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Hi Grogs,
Three things to run past you for consideration:
1> Can you please remove the LED colour names from the silkscreen!
2> Is it worth adding a uSD socket (as with the SC version of this PCB)? Then you can loose the SD header (CON10 I think it is?)
3> Any chance of making it double layer rather than 4-layer? (just asking!)
Cheers buddy. WW
Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9750
Posted: 04:24am 21 Nov 2017
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#1 - I added them cos I was always forgetting which LED went where. Why do you want them removed?
#2 - Not a silly idea. I will look into it.
#3 - Not a chance in Hell. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops!
WhiteWizzard Guru Joined: 05/04/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2959
Posted: 08:13am 21 Nov 2017
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I do not like using red LEDs to indicate power (prefer to use them more for 'warnings' - just a silly thing I have). I like to use green or blue to indicate Power ON). The sequence that works well on the E100 is a traffic like (i.e. from top: Red, Yellow, Green). I still supply assembled E100 units in this sequence but often get customers tell me I put the LEDs the wrong way round!!
I guessed that would be your 'polite' answer (but it would massively reduce PCB cost). As the leading PCB expert here, are you sure you don't want this PCB challenge?
Edited by WhiteWizzard 2017-11-22
Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9750
Posted: 08:16am 21 Nov 2017
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#1 - Ahhhh. I see what you mean now. Fair enough. I would still like to label them, so I will label them as you suggest. Satisfactory?
#2 -
#3 - I like a challenge, but that is impossible. If you are making a custom board, then two-layer IS quite pissable, but as the E100 has so many features on it, four-layer.....C'est La Vie....Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops!
WhiteWizzard Guru Joined: 05/04/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2959
Posted: 08:21am 21 Nov 2017
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#1 - make sure you don't turn the PCB 180deg when relabelling! Yep - very satisfied
#2 - uSD ok then, or not yet attempted?
#3 - I understand - but worth asking . . .
Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9750
Posted: 08:34am 21 Nov 2017
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[Quote=IN BRUGES]#1 Why aren't you in when I *** told you to be in. #2 Why doesn't this hotel have phones with **** voicemail and not I have to leave messages with the **** receptionist. #3 You'd better **** be in tomorrow night when I **** call again, or there'll be **** hell to pay, I'm **** telling ya. - Harry.[/Quote]
Sorry - just HAD to get that in there.
#1 - OK. #2 - Not done yet, but agree with your big-grin. #3 - On the E100, just not really possible, with I/O lines going everywhere.Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops!
jman Guru Joined: 12/06/2011 Location: New ZealandPosts: 711
Posted: 09:17am 21 Nov 2017
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Just my 2 cents worth I would prefer to keep the standard console pins this way the board is usable with OR without the 1455 (The CP2102 should be removed)
Jman
WhiteWizzard Guru Joined: 05/04/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2959
Posted: 09:29am 21 Nov 2017
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It would be useful to have a feature to 'disable' the PIC1455 when not required (to minimise current draw).
I have spoken to Peter about this and he implied to put a link in the 0v line to the PIC. I think it may still see a route to Ground through the other connections to the PIC1455 so am not yet convinced it will draw zero power with just a GND link.
On that basis - I agree with man to leave in the three basic console connections (GND, Rx, Tx)
robert.rozee Guru Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 2462
Posted: 01:10am 22 Nov 2017
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the 1455 draws about 10mA, how does this compare with the other stuff on an E100 board?
i'd really not recommend lifting the ground pin of the 1455. a far safer approach would be to socket the 1455 (ie, use a DIP version). alternatively, discuss with peter ways for the 1455 to be persuaded into a low-power sleep mode. this could be signalled, for instance, by having the mode/select pin held low at powerup - a simple jumper across the select switch would then suffice. this would, of course, require a modification to the 1455 firmware, and is dependant on such a change even being possible.
we are currently on version 1.18, with an upgrade fairly straightforward as just about all the 1455s out there included the ds30 bootloader. it would be a useful upgrade for E-28 boards too, as they have a couple of pads right next to each other for mode/select and ground.
cheers, rob :-)
Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9750
Posted: 01:21am 22 Nov 2017
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@ jman - OK, I will keep CON6, but get rid of the CP2102 module footprint.
@ WW - On the E100, is low-power really even a thing? With the E28 or a custom design using a MM2 I can certainly see why you would want low-power mode for battery operation, but the E100 with it's thirsty LCD screen makes the 10mA or so of the 1455 chip negligable I would have thought....
@ Rob - Yes, a DIL socketed IC would be the best way forward with that. There MIGHT be room for that as an idea - I will look into it, then if you want the 1455 interface, you just plug in the 1455 DIL chip. If not, remove it.
I realise that to some extent I am opening myself up to design-by-committee again here with this thread, but so far I am happy with suggestions.
That is not a cue for members to start suggesting flux capacitors and time circuits....... Edited by Grogster 2017-11-23Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops!
MicroBlocks Guru Joined: 12/05/2012 Location: ThailandPosts: 2209
Posted: 01:10am 22 Nov 2017
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Power the 1455 from USB only, then only when the USB is plugged in it will draw power. Microblocks. Build with logic.
MicroBlocks Guru Joined: 12/05/2012 Location: ThailandPosts: 2209
Posted: 01:13am 22 Nov 2017
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[quote] That is not a cue for members to start suggesting flux capacitors and time circuits....... [/quote] He, did Grogster post in the future? (Or did i go back in time?) Microblocks. Build with logic.
MicroBlocks Guru Joined: 12/05/2012 Location: ThailandPosts: 2209
Posted: 01:16am 22 Nov 2017
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BTTF Music.... Microblocks. Build with logic.
Phil23 Guru Joined: 27/03/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1667
Posted: 08:05pm 22 Nov 2017
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ESP-8266 users will be compromised.
On mine I use the CP-2102 header for a plug to connect the ESP-01 as I mentioned here....
I could live without that particular connector, but as long as I still had access to Tx & Rx before the 1455, as on Con6.
All my MM's including the E100's are connected by Wifi & I'd be totally lost without that functionality.
Having to take a laptop & USB to all of them for code changes would be a huge PITA.
at should still be available via some means.
Think this applies to all devices using the 1455; Direct Tx & Rx Needs to still be available.
Cheers
Phil. Edited by Phil23 2017-11-24
Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9750
Posted: 10:32pm 22 Nov 2017
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OK folks, thanks.
And Phil - you make a very good point, and hammered home well with the photos.
I think what I will do, is leave the CP2102 header and CON6 there, but perhaps change the SOIC 1455 to a DIL version, so that if you want the USB serial connection and/or the ASCII ICSP feature, you plonk the DIL chip into a socket on the E100 board.
I think that would then cater to everyone. Those that DON'T want it cos they currently have arrangements such as Phil, but also those that DO want that extra feature. This also means just one version of the PCB.
So, that is how I am going to proceed.
- CP2102 footprint will stay. - CON6 will stay. - 1455 will change from SOIC to DIL and socket - Silkscreen changes to LED's as suggested by WW - Add uSD card socket as suggested by WW.
It was worthwhile posting this thread. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops!
Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9750
Posted: 12:17am 23 Nov 2017
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OK, DIL 1455 mod done. I just have to do the other suggestions.
Install the DIL 1455 in the socket if you want the USB console and/or ICSP programming ability, don't install the chip if you don't want that ability and would rather use the CP2102 or CON6. I think that best deals with every situation, yes?(rhetorical!)Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops!
Phil23 Guru Joined: 27/03/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1667
Posted: 06:50am 23 Nov 2017
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So Con6 etc will all still work with the 1455 plugged in?
I'd see myself using Wifi on almost exclusive basis, but would have the 1455 sitting in wait for ease of upgrade for firmware whenever it comes around.
Phil.
Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9750
Posted: 07:04am 23 Nov 2017
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No.
If you want the 1455 interface, you can't use the CP2102 footprint or CON6. If you want the CP2102 footprint or CON6, you can't use the 1455.Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops!
Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9750
Posted: 01:02am 02 Dec 2017
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UPDATE:
OK, here we are with the new design.
- Optional socketed 1455 USB/ICSP interface chip with on-board ICSP for IT - Silkscreen changes as per WW request(around LED's) - uSD card socket added(SD #2), upper-left corner. - CON10 removed. - PIN_17 added to PIN_51 header as a spare I/O pin.
I will probably tweak a few more things, but this is essentially the new version of the board I plan to get made.Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops!
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The Back Shed's forum code is written, and hosted, in Australia.
Notice. New forum software under development. It's going to miss a few functions and look a bit ugly for a while, but I'm working on it full time now as the old forum was too unstable. Couple days, all good. If you notice any issues, please contact me.
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(just asking!)
I understand - but worth asking . . . 
With the E28 or a custom design using a MM2 I can certainly see why you would want low-power mode for battery operation, but the E100 with it's thirsty LCD screen makes the 10mA or so of the 1455 chip negligable I would have thought....
