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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : FTDI Drivers Are Killing Fake Chips
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Justplayin Guru  Joined: 31/01/2014 Location: United StatesPosts: 327 |
Just saw this article on Hack A Day. Watch That Windows Update: FTDI Drivers Are Killing Fake Chips Anybody a victim yet? --Curtis I am not a Mad Scientist... It makes me happy inventing new ways to take over the world!! |
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BobD Guru Joined: 07/12/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 935 |
Not a friendly move by FTDI and Microsoft as a facilitator. Got to be dodgy legal territory. Microsoft should pull the update to the driver. |
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| Justplayin Guru Joined: 31/01/2014 Location: United StatesPosts: 327 |
I'd don't think this will fair well for FTDI in the public opinion polls. I know they are trying to send a message, but what I hear is: "Avoid all FTDI products since you have no idea if it's real or fake." Hopefully not too much damage will be done by this update. It's probably a "Optional update" for anyone with an existing device and not many people bother with the "optional updates." However, those connecting new devices might fall victim if they let Windows search for the drivers. --Curtis I am not a Mad Scientist... It makes me happy inventing new ways to take over the world!! |
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| BobD Guru Joined: 07/12/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 935 |
It will appear that Windows updates are bricking peoples devices, machines, hair dryers or whatever. Microsoft has much to lose here. |
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vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
In the end, the affected FTDI chips will work on Linux thanks to workarounds, and maybe on OS X too... As I see it, the first one to stand up against this illegal measure will be Microsoft. Until then, I see a massive reorientation to the Microchip and Atmel (which one is cheaper and in unlimited quantities) solutions. Mine is Microchip and I'm still happy with it - and now more determined to include it in my future device developments. Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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G8JCF Guru Joined: 15/05/2014 Location: United KingdomPosts: 676 |
@Justplayin Thanks for the heads up. I've just checked the 'optional updates' and there is indeed an FTDI update pending which I shall NOT be installing - use right click, 'hide this update' to prevent accidental installation at some future date. It does seem a somewhat drastic and aggressive move by FTDI which I can't see how it will help consumers find suppliers who use authentic chips. @WW, you sell FTDI USB<->Serial converters, how do you make sure you only get converters with authentic FTDI chips ? or do U manufacture the modules yourself and buy the chips direct from FTDI in Glasgow ? Peter The only Konstant is Change |
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| robert.rozee Guru Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 2428 |
i would have thought that the FTDI drivers now fit all the criteria to be classed as a virus/trogan: - uses a widespread deployment mechanism - covert operation on user's hardware - permanent damage to functionality rob :-) |
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| hitsware Guru Joined: 23/11/2012 Location: United StatesPosts: 535 |
Are there any other than the FTDI that can be reprogrammed (simply as with the FTDI's) to work with PicAxe chips ? (Tx and Rx inverted) (that are avaiable on a breakout board) |
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| BobD Guru Joined: 07/12/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 935 |
Peter can you indicate which update it is please. I may have already installed it and if so then I will remove it. Bob |
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Zonker Guru Joined: 18/08/2012 Location: United StatesPosts: 767 |
Yikes... I just bought 25 FT234Xd's from Digikey... Hope they are the real deal... |
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| G8JCF Guru Joined: 15/05/2014 Location: United KingdomPosts: 676 |
@BobD The update was in the Optional category, was FTDI driver, and was August I suggest that you look at your update History around August and you should find it (assuming you have installed it). If you haven't done so, change your Windows Update settings so that only Critical updates are reported, and make sure that you choose, 'Download, but notify me to install', that way you can check what is about to be updated before it actually updates. OK ? Peter The only Konstant is Change |
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| G8JCF Guru Joined: 15/05/2014 Location: United KingdomPosts: 676 |
@RR FTDI has the legal right to protect their IP including their driver software. If FTDI detects non-FTDI h/w, FTDI have the legal right to stop their (FTDI) drivers from functioning with non-FTDI hardware. What FTDI has done is not a virus/trojan/malware by any reasonable definition(s) of those terms. FTDI may be/probably are being very stupid/committing commercial suicide, but to compare them to virus/trojan/malware authors/producers is wholly incorrect. FTDI are entirely within their legal rights IMHO. The hardware is an illegal, unauthorised copy of FTDI's intellectual property. FTDI has the legal right to take all steps required to protect their IP including disabling/destroying illegal copies of their IP. If one was to go down the pub and buy a bottle of Chanel 5 for 5 quid, would one really expect the bottle to be genuine ? No, at that price, the bottle of Chanel 5 is either counterfeit or even worse stolen, and when the authorities turn up, that 'bargain bottle' is going to be confiscated and destroyed. As a consumer of possible illegal copies of FTDI IP, my redress is against those people/entities which sold me something which purports to be 'genuine' FTDI product - 'Buyer Beware'. If something is too good to be true, then it probably is "too good to be true" - "a fool and his money are easily parted". In summary, IMHO, FTDI have every legal right to do what they appeared to have done, BUT they have probably been commercially stupid to have done what they have done. Peter The only Konstant is Change |
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| vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
I think is even more complicated than that. FTDI have the rights to stop that entity to clone the chips by closing it. He can also enforce the retiring of those products from the market. But when it comes to people's property who thought they bought authentic FTDI products, then it can be count as an aggression (and that is something which can happen only in countries with dictatorship where everything must be paid by the population). And they (FTDI) must pay! Yeah, is no more than a direct attack to the consumers. Is a small thing? Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| G8JCF Guru Joined: 15/05/2014 Location: United KingdomPosts: 676 |
@ Vasi Buyer Beware. It is the buyer's responsibility to assure themselves that what the seller is offering to sell them is indeed what the buyers believes it is they are buying. It is the seller's responsibility to ensure that what they are offering to the buyer(s) is what the seller is indeed offering. If the seller sells to the buyer something which does NOT meet the specification which the seller is promising, then the buyer's recourse is to require the seller to reimburse the buyer for their costs. Just how can FTDI be held responsible for the actions of third parties in expropriating their (FTDI's) IP ? Anybody who thought that buying a product containing a "genuine FTDI" component including P&P & a PCB for far less than the price of the component itself (in thousand off quantity) was/is either stupid/closing their blind eye/complicit in the theft itself. Granted, for FTDI's ongoing commercial interests they should probably have chosen a less draconian solution, eg a warning message every-time the driver was initialised, one cannot deny that FTDI has the legal and moral right to protect their investment in their IP. If you worked for FTDI and FTDI went bust because of counterfeiting, and you lost your job, how would you feel ? Consumers must understand that collaborating, (by turning a blind-eye), with thieves, (what else can one call those who counterfeit/steal IP ?), is not risk-free and will result in penalties of one form or another. Theft of IP is theft, no different from the burglar who breaks in and steals the family jewels. Apologies for having to be so forceful, but so many people think that theft of IP (music, ideas, patents, software) is OK, but if someone broke into their gaff and stole their CD's they would be screaming blue murder - double standards or what ! Peter The only Konstant is Change |
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| vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
Not all counterfeits were sold cheap... you can't cover all the cases. Simply, you can't make them all thefts and accomplices. So, if you are forceful, you'll pay (well, not you Peter). Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 4036 |
I'm fairly sure English law would allow remedies against Microsoft and FTDI if they disable, as alleged, hardware that was working. Whether a genuine chip or not such action has legal consequences and suing for damages looks easy. Best way to go under is to do stupid things that are against the law! Should be able to get a restraining order against both companies, too. People (that would be company executives) go to prison for breaking those... Still, not really any effect on me as I avoid Windoze as much as possible and don't allow it to connect to the net if I dual-boot into it. FTDI need to charge a fair price instead of their rip-off price. That's where the trouble is. John |
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Grogster Admin Group  Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9588 |
Any reputable parts supplier such as Digikey, Farnell, Element-14, etc would be selling genuine parts, I would think. The dirt-cheap versions you can buy on eBay etc are the ones to avoid. An interesting discussion going on here. Personally, I tend to agree with FTDI's stance on this, but that is just me, as I would not like someone to copy my IP for exactly the same reasons. On the one hand, I agree that FTDI should be able to brick cloned chips if it detects them, but on the other hand, that IS indeed a thorny legal issue.... I'll be watching this thread for updates on this! Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 4036 |
I almost hope it happens to me as I'd LOVE to file a claim against Microsoft. I don't see that their EULA will allow or indeed could under English law allow the disabling of previously-working hardware. Even if the EULA purports to allow it, such a clause would be struck out as unlawful. Big mistake if they're doing this. Even if it's FTDI code it would be Microsoft who'd have to pay (they'd have the option to sue FTDI of course). Meanwhile I'm looking for a way to avoid FTDI chips and instead use (say) a PIC18. John |
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MicroBlocks Guru Joined: 12/05/2012 Location: ThailandPosts: 2209 |
I am not very fond of the FTDI's. Especially not the shelf live. I use the MCP2200 and don't need to worry about fakes as they are ordered straight from the factory. Microblocks. Build with logic. |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9588 |
Yes, the 2200 looks like a good bet. They are very cheap too, at only US$1.94 for the SOIC or SSOP version. I have downloaded the datasheet for this device, and am having a read. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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