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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : MicroMite 44 Pin TQFP Eval PCB/Module
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| robert.rozee Guru  Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 2442 |
gentlemen - i find the present discussion somewhat disturbing, and highly muddled. 1. what evidence exists for there being counterfeit FTDI devices out there? can someone please furnish close-up macro photos of said devices, or at least make clear their reasons for suspecting counterfeits. 2. there does seem to be some evidence for a batch of incompatible chips produced with date codes of '1213'. who has these chips? is there there any evidence of them being counterfeits? where were they purchased from? if any 'problematic' 1213 dated chips came from farnell or RS (or other major supplier), has anyone raised the problem with the supplier? in particular, has anyone suggest to the supplier that the chips are counterfeit. 3. if a ftdi chip works on one windows system with current drivers, but not on another with the same drivers, this is evidence of a driver/windows incompatibility. microsoft and/or FTDI are the people to be alerted. it provides no evidence of the chip being counterfeit, and should not be presented as evidence of such. in such a case, does switching to a chip with a different date code cause the problem to disappear? that being so may be an indication of an issue with a particular batch of chips, but if the systems consistently do/don't work irrespective of the chip's date code then one can push the problem back onto being a driver/windows issue. i'd strongly suggest that some scientific method be applied here, to find out the root cause. so far, all we have is a fair bit of enthusiastic use of the word 'counterfeit' which may well be masking a much simpler explanation. rob :-) |
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| WhiteWizzard Guru Joined: 05/04/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2944 |
Don, So based on Bobs comments that v2.10 is working, then back-tracking this to your comment (that the current version kills buggy/counterfeit chips) I guess that means that Bob hasn't got any dodgy FTDI chips! 
No need for me to take Mouser to court then for supplying dodgy components! |
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donmck Guru Joined: 09/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1314 |
Supplier? I asked the manufacturer directly, as I haven't purchased chip devices, only assembled cables. I have asked FTDI engineering if there is a possibility of counterfeit chips and I am waiting for an answer. This was suggested to me, so I am asking the question of FTDI. I have no proof, but I am asking the question, and I hope to get an answer. I was the sole FTDI distributor in Australia and NZ for many years. I do know that out of 20 random cables I tested from two different Chinese manufacturers that only 3 would work with the current drivers. The other 17 failed and would only work with a previous version of the firmware, that I have detailed elsewhere. So I know there is something badly wrong. Perhaps it is the current driver that is the real problem. I have asked the question, and I have provided a work around for users that are having problems. This is based mainly on the findings of Olimex. In my case, all 17 cables that were not working, now do work with the earlier version driver. It has also solved the problem for at least one user on TBS already. Counterfeit or buggy, I have no idea, so I have asked the manufacturer to throw some more light on it so we can track down the problem. Cheers Don... https://www.dontronics.com |
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BobD Guru Joined: 07/12/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 935 |
OK, after a few tries I now have FTDI driver V2.10 installed and working on all 3 systems. thanks Don. |
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| WhiteWizzard Guru Joined: 05/04/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2944 |
Rob, I found it disturbing too which is why I looked into it on Google. And note that I AM NOT initiating anything against FTDI - in fact if you read my posts I am one of their biggest fans which is why I use their chips. It started with a warning from Don on the MicroMite Beta 18 thread (I requested it move back here on this thread.) BobD was having issues with the FTDI driver on Win 8 (which he now has working). Don gave a potential cause of Bobs initial driver issue as the following post: There is some evidence of people having issues out there BUT I am not 100% convinced yet there is an issue with FTDI drivers on genuine devices. I would be stunned if no counterfeits existed BUT it is NOT down to me to prove any do. Google it and you will find that fake FTDIs do exist and have been proven to exist by FTDI themselves. I am continuing to look into this but I want to make one thing clear. I ONLY BUY MY COMPONENTS TO MAKE MY 44-PIN MICROMITE MODULE FROM MAIN STREAM SUPPLIERS. I know that these suppliers (namely Mouser and RS Components for my FTDI chips) supply chains may be 'infiltrated' but this should be minimised as they should deal directly with FTDI. I will try and re-find a good 'discussion' about this that I came across and post a link for you to read which is why Don has helpfully given us all a heads-up. Regards, Phil |
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| WhiteWizzard Guru Joined: 05/04/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2944 |
I found it . . . FT232RL: Real or Fake? Click here to read it (and be sure to read ALL the comments at the bottom of the page). . . |
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| donmck Guru Joined: 09/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1314 |
Spot on Phil. There's your problem :-) I'll direct that link at a few people including FTDI engineering and see what falls out. Cheers Don... https://www.dontronics.com |
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| WhiteWizzard Guru Joined: 05/04/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2944 |
Don Bit confusing this - first link points to v2.10 (which Bob installed ok now); second link points to v2.08.30. Possibly you need to update website to v2.10?? Thanks for your help in guiding BobD to success. Not sure what caused the issue of this driver in the first place though. Bob. Do you now why it went in ok in the end - was it a MS Windows issue? WW |
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| WhiteWizzard Guru Joined: 05/04/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2944 |
Don, Funny thing is, if you look closely at the photo of fake v real then you can see there is a clear difference in Font for the FTDI wording (logo?). The thing is, my FTDIs from Mouser look like the fake  . BUT they are laser etched and not printed (i use chemicals to see if wording rubs off - if so then printed).
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| donmck Guru Joined: 09/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1314 |
Found that issue. A few days ago, MS update was using V2.8.30.0, today it is updating from V2.10.00, so I can update that info on the page. Mind you, V2.10.00 hasn't fixed the buggy (Counterfeit?) problem. I wouldn't expect them to of course, but I would expect FTDI to admit to the existence of Counterfeit chips, if this is in fact the real problem. Cheers Don... https://www.dontronics.com |
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| donmck Guru Joined: 09/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1314 |
Shook a few trees on the FTDI parts, see what falls out. Looks like PL2303 devices have fakes also: http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewto pic&t=128935&start=all This is the Prolific warning Please be warned that counterfeit (fake)
PL-2303HX (Chip Rev A) USB to Serial Controller ICs using Prolific's trademark logo, brandname, and device drivers, were being sold in the China market. Counterfeit IC products show exactly the same outside chip markings but generally are of poor quality and causes Windows driver compatibility issues (Yellow Mark Error Code 10). We issue this warning to all our customers and consumers to avoid confusion and false purchase. Prolific prohibits the distribution of any PL-2303 drivers (including download links) without written permission from Prolific. Prolific advices end-users to only purchase vendor branded cable products with company name contact information for service and support. Prolific does not sell cables with Prolific brand and packaging. In case you suspect a counterfeit chip inside, you may also contact Prolific to provide the vendor information. No wonder there is so much hit and miss with USB comms these days. Cheers Don... https://www.dontronics.com |
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| WhiteWizzard Guru Joined: 05/04/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2944 |
Don, I wonder if the cloning market would stop on these brilliant chips if FTDI brought their price down to under $0.25 ! Do you have any contacts their still to make this suggestion? We can only dream . . . |
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MicroBlocks Guru Joined: 12/05/2012 Location: ThailandPosts: 2209 |
It would stop innovation overnight when prices are like that. The whole supply chain would collapse as there is no more profit to be made. Only bulk and low quality will be the result. Millions of people would be without a job and end up with social security. Oh wait, that has already happened and is still continuing.... the race to zero. I think it is better to pay a fair price and demand quality products. Microblocks. Build with logic. |
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| WhiteWizzard Guru Joined: 05/04/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2944 |
I have always said that BUT when those 'secure' supply chains are infiltrated what can we do?? Perhaps I should offer two different prices for my module: 1> $1.99 (made from ebay components so probably won't work (and the PCB tracks may be connected up a bit wrong! 2> $41.99 (made from Mouser/Rs/Farnell) but guaranteed to work (even for Bob!) Any thoughts . . . . PS By the way, I can't switch these prices around BUT I CAN sell option 1 for the switched price (even give you 50% off)
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| WhiteWizzard Guru Joined: 05/04/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2944 |
Forgot to stress, the above are Australian Dollar prices 
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vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
It is so easy to make your own USB-to-Serial converter - is open-source and I guess the Chinese don't know that yet! Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| WhiteWizzard Guru Joined: 05/04/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2944 |
My price is for a fully kitted out 44-pin MicroMite Module - not just a USB-to-Serial converter!
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| WhiteWizzard Guru Joined: 05/04/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2944 |
James_From_Canb - Your Private Message Inbox is full - please delete message if you can! If you need to save messages, TZAdvantage told me a good method - it was there on the screen in front of me but I never noticed it: Open up a message and scroll to the bottom where there is a small high-lighted link to email the message to yourself (it is NOT a button which is why I never saw it). Then scroll back to the top of the message and hit the delete button (again hidden away but it is there). You need to acknowledge deletion a few times but all is done. Suggest you clear Page 3 of your outbox using this method to free up enough space. As I mentioned, this useful tip came from TZAdvatage  |
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| MicroBlocks Guru Joined: 12/05/2012 Location: ThailandPosts: 2209 |
I order my microchip parts directly from the factory. Most projects i design around Microchip parts because of that. Now i even stock them. Other parts i get from a trusted reseller who sells only to registered businesses. They get their parts directly from the factory and order quantities in the thousands. I have a family member working there who does the ordering and keeps track of inventory. It should be very difficult to infiltrate them, but you never know if someone higher up the chain falls for it. For my hobby parts like servos, dc motors etc i use ebay and i accept that they sometimes not work properly. Microblocks. Build with logic. |
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| ztoti Regular Member  Joined: 27/10/2011 Location: CanadaPosts: 65 |
Hello In past two months I made 6 version of Micromite (44pin) and here is final version how I see the Maximite. This is breadbord friendly adapter with couple DC inputs: 12V, 5V, 3.3V, LiIon battery, microUSB. The power module is switching DC/DC converter from 12 to 5V, plus linear regulator to 3.3v. Maximite will run from any of those DC source with no complain. LiIon battery is charging from USB or 12V and there is LED to indicate the charging. USB to serial converter with FT232 chip is onboard, with microUSB connector and Rx/Tx leds. The 4th LED is connected to pin 13 (like Arduino) and I use for some indications or debuging. Two terminal block are for 12V DC and LiIon battery. Also on the board is 5pin female connector for I2C units, designed to be pin compatible with RTC module from EBay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Arduino-I2C-RTC-DS1307-AT24C32-Real- Time-Clock-Module-For-AVR-ARM-PIC-SMD-/170910326110?pt=LH_De faultDomain_0&hash=item27cb0c9d5e 
This module has RTC chip on it (DS1307), EEPROM (24c32), battery, place for temperature sensor DS18B20 and the price is just $1.22. I've posted on youtube demonstration with this module, how to use in meteostation with data log. Please check the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wf68_EPhNDI I have lot of fun with Parallax OFN module and finally Micromite working with micro touchpad :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whrjabd8UuU 
Here is screenshot for meteostation: 
and PDF 3D file: " https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/42611861/micromite_april 14.pdf " |
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