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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : HC-12 old vs new module....
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| DaveC Newbie  Joined: 27/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 11 |
issues reported on the Picaxe Forum: http://www.picaxeforum.co.uk/showthread.php?29875-HC-12-working-supply/page6 and a likely indication of fakes on the HC01 website: http://www.hc01.shop/productDetail?id=29 Dave |
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Azure Guru  Joined: 09/11/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 446 |
As VK2MCT wrote, it might be worth checking if the XTAL's are a slightly different frequency between the two types of boards. |
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Grogster Admin Group  Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9493 |
@ VK2MCT - Yes, I think you are probably right. Especially once I read the couple of posts below your one.... @ DaveC - Thanks very much for that link.  This does seem to confirm that there are bloody fakes out there now. Grrrrrrrr......  For this thread's reference, here are the photos that Dave is talking about from the HC12 website:   Apart from the slight silkscreen misalignment on the fakes, they are also easily spotted as fakes by the two extra holes on the PCB, indicated by the arrow. If you have those holes on your HC12's, they are fake ones, so it would seem. I will now check all the ones I have in stock, and if I find ones without those holes that appear to be genuine, I will then test THOSE - but I fully expect them to be spot on frequency wise, being the genuine article. Certainly something to be VERY aware of now we know fake HC12's are being sold. EDIT: The 'Holes' I mention are actually on both. The arrow seems to be indicating the thin silkscreen on the fakes, which shows them up. The genuine ones have a thicker whiter silkscreen. The ones I have certainly seem to be the fake ones based on what I am seeing.  Luckily, I have only built about six units with the new 'Fake' HC12's, so I will have to f-ing pull them to bit again, and remove the modules and obtain and install some genuine ones. *sigh* However, looking on the bright side(of life!), I had only built 6 units, not 60 or 600 - that would be an absolute nightmare.Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9493 |
Well, I have checked my stock, and found seven HC-12's which all qualify as being fakes. I have binned the lot.  I bought them as a lot of 15 from AliExpress, but back in November last year, so I can't open any kind of dispute about them now(too much time has passed). The only thing is, I am trying to remember where I used the other 8 from that batch..... EDIT: From what I have been able to establish at this stage, after a bit of cross-referencing with the PICAXE thread Dave linked us to, THE GENUINE MODULES HAVE AN OSCILLATOR MARKED AS T300. THE FAKES HAVE AN OSCILLATOR MARKED AS 30.000MHZ. Fakes also seem to be about half the price of the genuine ones - US$2.50 or so each, with genuine ones being around US$5 each, so that can be used as a guide. I was not aware of HC12 fakes existing, so always went for the cheapest ones I could find. Now I know different, I will be more selective in whom I buy them from - but that does not necessarily mean you won't be sold fake ones anyway.  EDIT: I am going to design a small PCB that can be used to test and program HC12 modules. It will used pogo-pins for the HC12, allowing you to plonk one on the board for programming AND testing. This was not really necessary before now, but as there appears to be fakes on the market now, an easy way to test them becomes more important. It can also double as a programmer for them. You will still need a UHF scanner, but hand-held scanner radios can be had very cheaply on eBay etc. Not so good on the transmit side of things, but they work beautifully as a receiver. I will link to one when I have the PCB ready. I will start a new thread for that. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| PeterB Guru Joined: 05/02/2015 Location: AustraliaPosts: 655 |
G'Day Grogster et al I know it's all done and dusted but it occurred to me that you could have proved your theory by loading the Xtal on the new device to drop it's frequency enough to correct it. A pair of twisted wires cut to length could do it. Just a thought. Peter |
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| VK2MCT Senior Member  Joined: 30/03/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 120 |
The docs seem to say that the Xtal caps values, can be programmed. Caps are internal to the brain. John B |
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CaptainBoing Guru Joined: 07/09/2016 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2141 |
hold your horses fella!  It might be they are crap because of some minor error - I know they were cheap but if you can fix them for a couple of smd caps, that's gotta be better. They are evidently close to being functional and the effort to fake something to a working state is considerable. I would mark them with a big F in a circle on the bag but put them to one side until all avenues have been explored - at least until your new tester is done and you can prove it.  for that btwat 22Yuan from HC, I will probably get mine from then direct now, works out as sub £2.50... why take the chance |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9493 |
I hear that, but the issue I have is NOT just the crystal oscillator. If they are clones, then the ST chip will be a clone also, and probably the Si RF chip too. The PICAXE forums talk about people having issues with their HC12's locking up completely, and they can only get them to talk again by cycling power. These appear to be the clone HC12's. This to me suggests that the MCU could be quite unstable, depending on what die they have actually used, vs what the genuine HC12's have used. For cloners, every single cent matters, as you probably know.  So, while the crystal oscillator is definetly a problem in the clones, it would also appear that the ST chip is also - cos it too is probably also cloned or some kind of sub-standard version. The cloners may have used the ST rejects for this part to save a few cents, but to cause a whole heap of stress for anyone trying to use them. Back to my tester PCB layout. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| CaptainBoing Guru Joined: 07/09/2016 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2141 |
what price were you paying for HC-12 from your dodgy mate down the pub ? 22Yuan is NZ$4.79 - I have had an epiphany about this - I can't risk being in the situation where I have modules that won't talk to each other. I have evidently been lucky up to this point. From now on, I go to the source. If the real thing cozts me £2.50 and the hooky ones are 99p, that saved 1.50 buys me a whole heap of pain or at least the worry until proved OK. Not risking it. |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9493 |
Totally agree, and I would order direct from hc01, but they don't have an English version of their website, so it would be pretty hard to order from them - even though I would like to - cos of the language barrier on their site. Can you speak Chinese? Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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lew247 Guru Joined: 23/12/2015 Location: United KingdomPosts: 1702 |
No but CHROME Translated Link can chrome will translate most languages |
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| Phil23 Guru Joined: 27/03/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1667 |
What a bugger, I went for HC-11's a few years back cause I read something about timing issues; well watched on YouTube. They are working fine, but the range sees one up the front office being deaf occasionally. Figured on all the latest reads that I could just grab a dozen HC-12's & swap them about & still have 1/2 a dozen to spare. Got cold feet now. Just hate how these FAKE copies pop up an don't meet the mark. Phil. |
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| Azure Guru Joined: 09/11/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 446 |
A lot of the content on HC01 uses images (text saved as gifs or other formats). The translators for Chrome and Edge, etc cannot translate the image parts of web pages. I checked out the HC-2 specs and there are a lot of images on there, the text parts get translated but not the rest. |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9493 |
Yes, I had that problem too. I did try Mr. Translate on that site, but it is still pretty much unreadable - to me. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9493 |
You can, if you get the genuine ones. The cloners don't clone stuff to be competitive, they clone stuff to get your money. They really don't care if they actually work right or not, the object is to get you to part with your cash. Sad, but true. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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MicroBlocks Guru Joined: 12/05/2012 Location: ThailandPosts: 2209 |
Note to self.... When ordering from ebay, aliexpress,banggood etc. Check if everything works once received. Then still have time to file a complaint and get your money back. Microblocks. Build with logic. |
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| kg4pid Regular Member  Joined: 08/03/2015 Location: United StatesPosts: 50 |
I just found this thread and since I've had very limited success with my HC-12 I decided to look at the few I have been using. They do have the crystal marked T300 but the silkscreen is so heavy on the back side that I can not see any traces at all. I find it ironic that Chineese companies are faking devices made by other Chineese companies. I thought they only did that to well known companies in other contries. I recently read that SanDisk memory cards a being faked at a very high rate. Prolific USB to serial chips are another product that is frequently copied. Where do we go to get the real thing these days? |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9493 |
Sounds like you have the genuine article. One of the things that is visually different between the real and clones, is that the genuine ones have a thick white silkscreen on the bottom. You can't see the bottom tracks because of this. The fake ones have a more see-through milky looking silkscreen on the bottom. The clones seem to actually work OK from what I have found, but cos they are off frequency, you can't use clones and genuine ones on the same link or network, as they won't talk to each other on the same channel because of that. All genuine ones - no problems. All fake ones - no problems. Mix them up - BIG problems. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| Azure Guru Joined: 09/11/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 446 |
@grogster I understand your reluctance to use the fakes on paid jobs because of reported reliability, locking up, etc. Trying to nail down the cause of the different Tx frequency are you able to measure the frequency of the XTALs running on the 2 boards. Also doing the chip swaps you talked about earlier would be handy, but understand you may not care about doing that now. Just would be nice to see if the difference is from one of those components. |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9493 |
Yeah....  What has done my head in the most, is that I did not realize there were fake HC-12's out there. Now I know....... Had I known that or even suspected it before, I would have been much more careful about where I bought them from. I suppose when you really think about it some, the HC-12 is a VERY popular module, and anything that gets popular is cloned, so I guess I should have thought this was possible before now. Excrement. Oh well - onwards and upwards. Good idea on the XTAL thing. I will see if I can connect each module to my frequency counter. If that works, I will post results and photos. No, not really interested in chip-swapping now. That idea was back when I thought I was still dealing with genuine modules, but once it became possible they were fakes, it simply is not worth the time and effort to do the chip-swap now. MHOO. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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