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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : Mega65 preorder went live yesterday...
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epsilon Senior Member  Joined: 30/07/2020 Location: BelgiumPosts: 255 |
Good for you! I hope it takes off and a nice 'scene' develops around it. It's going to be a ton of fun to write SW that takes advantage of the new capabilities. For the time being though, I'll be watching from the sidelines, with interest. Epsilon CMM2 projects |
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Poppy Guru  Joined: 25/07/2019 Location: GermanyPosts: 486 |
Another important point. I think the price is the only deterrence, but actually for old white-bearded dudes (that actually we all are at least inside) this cannot be a barrier. I for myself do just think that the old CBM-BASIC is not worth it (it should at least have Simons-BASIC qualities) But generally such a project would be a great loss not being done or even tried to realize. Therefore generally   But actually still not for me individually. BUT if there was no Maximite and MMBASIC before, I think I would have bought this one myself! Definitely!  Andre ... such a GURU? | ||||
| toml_12953 Guru Joined: 13/02/2015 Location: United StatesPosts: 442 |
I'm one of those "greybeards" - literally! I'm very happy with my TRS-80 Model 1 and Altair 8800c with ASR33 Teletype attached (10 char/sec. Wow, that's fast!) Never underestimate the power of nostalgia. You'll get old some day (we hope!) and be nostalgic for some machine you have now. |
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CaptainBoing Guru Joined: 07/09/2016 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2170 |
lesson No.1 Never assume. I had been writing code on a variety of 8080/85 & Z80 (very basic) platforms since I was 16 and wrote Z80, 80x86 & 68K assembler professionally for embedded systems and PC until I was almost 30 (PC stuff continues to this day but not much assembler anymore  ). I consider myself very lucky that my formative years coincided precisely with the computer revolution of the 80s - BUT... the machines then do not hold a candle to properly modern designs in the same spirit, like the CMM2. Not even a C64 at 40x.Take the speccy; I was 18 when it appeared. At first I was wowed by Clive's blurb but when I saw one in the flesh I realised very quickly it was a colour ZX81+ and not the machine we were lead to believe. Mediocre at best at just about everything it did - I am genuinely interested to see if anyone can name one thing it did well (and being cheap as dirt to sell millions doesn't count). Probably the best thing that ever happened to that particular machine was it fell into the hands of a barrow-boy in a suit that at least knew what the customer base wanted - later versions were huge improvements. Lodovic hit the nail on the head with "I don't want to relive [80s machine] limitations and its very limited BASIC". Precisely. Staring my retirement in the face, I am glad to say, that although I enjoyed the 80s, my capacity for not being blinded by nostalgia is as good as ever and certainly not enough to make me shell out $1000(!) for a C64 reboot - The memories of those days are far, far better than the reality. |
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Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 7939 |
I've still got the (now non-working, unfortunately) Nascom-1 that I built from a kit. :) ... along with a couple of Nascom-2s that I couldn't afford at the time. It only took me about 30 years to get those. Yep, the TRS-80 Model 1 with expansion interface and wobbly monitor is still in the shed too. I no longer have the KSR33 with keyboard stripped out, but I still have an Oki Microline 80 - and a stand for it to take teletype rolls. @Cap'n - I'd be happy to hear of one thing that *any* of the *affordable* early home computers did well. :) Yep, the Speccy wasn't brilliant but getting a half decent version of BASIC, very good documentation and colour display of any sort on a home computer in 1982/83 was no mean feat. You can't compare it with, say, the BBC Micro as that simply wasn't affordable unless you had unusually rich parents. Edited 2021-10-05 23:35 by Mixtel90 Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| lizby Guru Joined: 17/05/2016 Location: United StatesPosts: 3378 |
My home-made Z80 S100-bus home computer ran a very clunky and limited version of COBOL with which I could debug programs that with slight modification could then run on a mainframe. This at a time when you might be able to get a couple of turnarounds a day with a stack of punch cards on the mainframe. 5-10 times faster debugging turnaround. PicoMite, Armmite F4, SensorKits, MMBasic Hardware, Games, etc. on fruitoftheshed |
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| CaptainBoing Guru Joined: 07/09/2016 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2170 |
S100! Now we are doing nostalgia! My first professional exposure to a Z80 platform (which I got off the back of my kit ZX81 experience) was a Cromemco Z2D with the BlitzBus S100 compat backplane, with a 4MHz Z80, 64K of RAM and two 'huge' 60K 5.25" floppies, had a lot of fun with that. Built an EPROM programmer on a S100 wire-wrap card that ran with DEBUG (Cromemco version of DDT) under CDOS (Cromemco version of CPM). Hazeltine 2000 terminal weighed a ton. |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 7939 |
I have some Gemini boards that I keep intending to build into a suitable frame & bus with some drives. Hopefully it'll run CP/M at some point. It's one of those projects that's pretty low priority though, although it has started. :) Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| karjo238 Regular Member  Joined: 12/10/2018 Location: New ZealandPosts: 60 |
When I get my hands on a machine, I am going to attempt the uncertain and maybe futile task of porting MMBasic to the Mega 65. It seems like a great fit, but, just to stop any flak coming my way: It probably won't happen I absolutely realise what I'm saying, but as I said, MMBasic and the Mega 65 seem a great fit, so I don't see the harm in at least trying. Despite what others have quite rightly said, I'm an optimist with this thing, and I'm really hopeful people will get on and do great things with it. I hope it won't just be a failed niche product only for those people whose hair colour is grey, white or non-existent (extends hand). I'm really looking forward to what will be done. All right, let the backlash commence! |
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| epsilon Senior Member Joined: 30/07/2020 Location: BelgiumPosts: 255 |
Maybe you can put it on a cartridge, like Simon's Basic. Wouldn't that be cool?! Epsilon CMM2 projects |
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| CaptainBoing Guru Joined: 07/09/2016 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2170 |
hoist by my own petard! I got to thinking about the S100 bus stuff I did 40 years ago and how much "fun" I had, so I googled it just as a memory trip... and they all came flooding back about what a cow it was to get it all working. Casting a modern eye over it, how far we've come from the archaic (in the truest sense of the word) thinking back then. I appreciate very much the bus was all things to all systems, but it wasn't great really. The memories are better than the reality and once again I am reminded of Rebound's Law. oh well, onward and upward... I like where we are in "MiteSpace" . |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 7939 |
Scary how far we've come, isn't it? Check my sig. :) I was born a couple of years before the first transistor radio (TR-1) went on sale. It had a whole 4 (expensive) transistors in it. It cost $49.95 (Probably around $500 today). Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| mclout999 Guru Joined: 05/07/2020 Location: United StatesPosts: 490 |
If you check out their project you would see that the basic is very much improved and updated beyond what Simons Basic was. The graphics and sound commands and functions are quite robust. There are a lot more improvements over the C64 basic. Here is the manual https://files.mega65.org/manuals-upload/mega65-basic65-reference.pdf that being said I would not pay that much when I am likely to see a core for my Mister FPGA. If you want to play with the thing you could just get the emulator they provide a link to. https://github.lgb.hu/xemu/ All the projects are generally updating their implmentation of basic. The commanderx16, the ZX Next, and the Mega65 all have addressed the weakness in the basics of the source devices pretty well. |
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| Poppy Guru Joined: 25/07/2019 Location: GermanyPosts: 486 |
You are right, it looks better than I thought before! If they do it will be fine! It still keeps being a matter of is the price worth it and therefore individual nostalgia. ... and if there was nothing else or more I still would be one of the buyers! Andre ... such a GURU? | ||||
| CaptainBoing Guru Joined: 07/09/2016 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2170 |
compulsory line numbers. ugh. |
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| Poppy Guru Joined: 25/07/2019 Location: GermanyPosts: 486 |
Actually I like them ... as long as I do not have type them myself each line. Each line is easier to find! Andre ... such a GURU? | ||||
| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 7939 |
Compulsory line numbers did have their place in some ways. The "BASIC Faster And Better" book for the TRS-80 showed how they could work - like using chapters, paragraphs and sentences. It points out that the RENUMBER command is to be avoided as it completely ruins the program layout. However, they simply aren't needed now and IMHO should be consigned to history. Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| CaptainBoing Guru Joined: 07/09/2016 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2170 |
don't misunderstand. I have no problem with line numbers, my beef is that they are mandatory. As far as the "chapter" thing goes, I totally agree and used to use them as an error handling aid in VB6 code that I wrote (and still support) so that when errors occur, they become "modularised" to specific program steps. Line numbers pepper the areas that are likely to have problems (connections to DBs, other systems etc). They get treated as "program steps", see? 1230: 'bring in the record set and clean the data SQL = "SELECT ID,TV01,TV02,TV03,TV04,TV05,TV06,TV07,TV08,TV09,TV10," & _ "TV41,TV42,TV43,TV44,TV45,TV46,TV47,TV48,TV49,TV50,SYSIDENT,TIMEWHEN " & _ "from CI_BUFFER where STATUS='N' and SYSIDENT=" & sysid & " order by ID;" Set TRS = DBCONN.Execute(SQL) 1240: If Not TRS.EOF Then G = TRS.GetRows TRS.Close 1250: '--------------------------- process the CIs from the Buffer --------------------------- ... and the error handler has specific sections for steps. but, HAVING to have them for each statement is a retro-grade step - the thinking behind which kind of fell apart with multi-statement lines back in the 80s. I remember I had quite a "whaaaaa?" moment first time I used QuickBasic (4.5?) "how can they NOT have line numbers???" been in love with the idea ever since Edited 2021-10-07 21:14 by CaptainBoing |
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| Volhout Guru Joined: 05/03/2018 Location: NetherlandsPosts: 5091 |
Wauw, that brings back memories from the time I wrote Algol 60 Volhout Edited 2021-10-07 23:26 by Volhout PicomiteVGA PETSCII ROBOTS |
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| Poppy Guru Joined: 25/07/2019 Location: GermanyPosts: 486 |
They should not be part of the program, just number the physical row, so that each single program line is easier to find. If the error-message says something like "error in line 264" then it would be easier to follow the visible numbers and simply scroll up or down to it than counting unnumbered rows from the top to the bottom. This is my point, anything else would just be nostalgic and therefore really not necessary. Andre ... such a GURU? | ||||
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