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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : Deepseek musings

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Volhout
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Joined: 05/03/2018
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 5053
Posted: 08:49am 30 Jan 2025
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  TassyJim said  I will leave AI to solve the climate change mess we have created and then start on world peace.
Jim


We have had the AI we need to solve these for thousands of years....



Volhout
PicomiteVGA PETSCII ROBOTS
 
electricat

Senior Member

Joined: 30/11/2020
Location: Lithuania
Posts: 299
Posted: 10:24am 30 Jan 2025
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@Volhout  

At some point , funny and scarry idea came to my head.
AI in role of highly fanatic priest... from my point of wiev it could be more evil and scarry than "Skynet" scenario
My MMBasic 'sand box'
 
Mixtel90

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Joined: 05/10/2019
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7856
Posted: 11:38am 30 Jan 2025
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  Quote  “O Deep Thought computer," he said, "the task we have designed you to perform is this. We want you to tell us...." he paused, "The Answer."
"The Answer?" said Deep Thought. "The Answer to what?"
"Life!" urged Fook.
"The Universe!" said Lunkwill.
"Everything!" they said in chorus.
Deep Thought paused for a moment's reflection.
"Tricky," he said finally.
"But can you do it?"
Again, a significant pause.
"Yes," said Deep Thought, "I can do it."
"There is an answer?" said Fook with breathless excitement.
"Yes," said Deep Thought. "Life, the Universe, and Everything. There is an answer. But, I'll have to think about it."

Mick

Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini
Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs
 
Volhout
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Joined: 05/03/2018
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 5053
Posted: 12:58pm 30 Jan 2025
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42
.
PicomiteVGA PETSCII ROBOTS
 
LeoNicolas

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Joined: 07/10/2020
Location: Canada
Posts: 503
Posted: 02:22pm 30 Jan 2025
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This excellent video from the channel Computerphile explains the deepseek architecture and why is so cheap to train and run

https://youtu.be/gY4Z-9QlZ64?si=5ijf5jUDPW9qMzeC
 
Mixtel90

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Posted: 05:40pm 30 Jan 2025
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Oh dear.....
Big problems in little China?

Mind you, our government(s) appear to be not much better.

.
Edited 2025-01-31 03:47 by Mixtel90
Mick

Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini
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zeitfest
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Joined: 31/07/2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 574
Posted: 11:14pm 30 Jan 2025
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I remain skeptical,  I can see they are a good way of accessing knowledge but not a good source of knowledge itself.

There was on old story about an early automatic translator project (guess where).
To test it, the developers fed in a phrase, to translate it to Russian, and then retranslated the result back to English.

So, the phrase
"The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak"
came back as
"The vodka is good but the meat is rotten".  

The point was, languages are often inexact logic. That is compensated for, by using lots and lots of probability based crunching.

Recently it has taken off instigated by the increased availability of cheap GPUs which were designed to do lots of the simple arithmetic needed for image creation.
Unfortunately crunching  on floating point numbers impacts their accuracy. Image creation only needs single precision so the GPUs only provide that...as soon as you need double precision the GPUS chuck it back to the main system,  much slower !!

I think there is bit of a bandwagon fashion sometimes which leads to uh, inconvenient surprises. When computers became available to researchers, weather simulation forecasting started using computed models. The models were taking too long so the researchers started using (faster) single precision calculation to run preliminary results, with the logic being that after a successful model was found it could then be run in  higher precision to fine tune it and give more accuracy.
But the two approaches gave wildly different results. That was a surprise as the difference between a single-point number and the equivalent double-point number is very small. One researcher remarked that it was if a butterfly wing flap in the Amazon forest would lead to a storm in the Atlantic.

A "Large Language Model" no doubt has much more data and inference available, but can it see all the actions in the Amazon ?  Hmmm.
Edited 2025-01-31 09:16 by zeitfest
 
lizby
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Joined: 17/05/2016
Location: United States
Posts: 3358
Posted: 01:14am 31 Jan 2025
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  zeitfest said  they are a good way of accessing knowledge but not a good source of knowledge itself


What is knowledge? It's not just data points, however invaluable data points are in gaining knowledge. But the ability to consider far more data points than any human can is likely to result in novel formulations--new knowledge, as it were.

Medication researchers are said to be using AI to suggest possible chemical combinations to be examined for safety and efficacy in treating illnesses. Maybe AI isn't going to come up with ready-made solutions, but it may be able to suggest combinations that researchers have not yet considered.

The same goes for many fields. Battery researchers are said to be investigating novel cathode formulations suggested by AI. Magnetism researchers are looking previously unexamined interactions. Plant geneticists are exploring AI-suggested paths for feeding a hungry world.

It's early days yet. (of course, there's always the possibility that we are living in late-stage human culture now.)
PicoMite, Armmite F4, SensorKits, MMBasic Hardware, Games, etc. on fruitoftheshed
 
Mixtel90

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Posted: 09:13am 31 Jan 2025
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This is the point. AI, because of its speed and ability to see what has already been suggested, can search for and find combinations that have not yet been tried. It doesn't always know if those combinations will fit what is required as it has no data on them. Hence you can get a recipe for bratwurst ice-cream as a side dish. Yes, the components of the dish are all edible, but the AI can't taste it or get a review on it. AI is an incredibly fast and adaptable moron and is the epitome of GIGO.
Mick

Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini
Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs
 
lizby
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Joined: 17/05/2016
Location: United States
Posts: 3358
Posted: 01:31pm 31 Jan 2025
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Of course, the only real solution to "Garbage In, Garbage Out" is not to input any garbage. Since AI is to a large degree fed on what is on the internet, preventing garbage-in is a major problem, especially since in some areas there is considerable dispute over whether some "data point" is or is not garbage.
PicoMite, Armmite F4, SensorKits, MMBasic Hardware, Games, etc. on fruitoftheshed
 
twofingers

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Joined: 02/06/2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 1573
Posted: 08:49pm 09 Feb 2025
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I am wondering if there will be commercial AI devices available for around $2000 in the near future ...? Similar to PCs 40 years ago.

Michael
causality ≠ correlation ≠ coincidence
 
DavidCP2010
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Joined: 09/02/2025
Location: United States
Posts: 3
Posted: 09:28pm 09 Feb 2025
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  Mixtel90 said  I just wish there was an alternative word. "Intelligent" is not what it is. That implies being able to reason and understand. AI does neither. It merely links database entries according to algorithms. There is no understanding there and any "reasoning" is based on the database entries that it finds, not on what they mean.

Does it "learn"? No, I don't think so. It refines the algorithms in response to people correcting it, but is that really learning? Absorbing knowledge without understanding it merely leads to a bigger database. There is a *hope* that if the database is big enough then the percentage of accurate results produced will be higher. That won't always be true though, the amount of false, fake and simply wrong information is also growing.

AI is "Artificial" though, so I suppose 50% is about the same accuracy. :)


Yep. This is my stickler with calling "AI" Intelligent. Being able to apply and validate what is known against what isn't is a pretty important part of intellect (arguably the most important part) and yet current AI can't actually do either of those things without a proven model.

Some methods (like sim2real) are a little closer I guess because they have an approximated (often too approximated) model to validate against but that falls more into robotics than what people call "AI".

A very complex encoding and replay can fool a lot of people (and perhaps be good enough for products) but it's not nearly enough for me to call it smart.😅
 
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