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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : Let's discuss reducing the number of active MMBasic designs
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Mixtel90 Guru  Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 7745 |
In spite of my efforts to screw DVI signals up by making the traces different lengths, sometimes mixing 220R and 270R resistors and sometimes finding a dodgy lead, I've not had any problems with HDMI that I couldn't put down to the monitor. If a display doesn't work with one Pico design then it won't work with any of the others at that resolution either. All I can think is that *some* displays have problems in decoding valid DVI signals, possibly because they aren't accompanied by something else that's expected. If DVI is really that critical then the Adafruit breakout board should definitely not work when used on veroboard or a breadboard, but it insists on working at any of the sane resolutions that I've tried. :) Remember, the current limiting resistors have already made a pigs ear of any signals by blowing the cable impedance matching to pieces. Metal film resistors also introduce inductance - a foul enemy of cable termination which is especially potent when mixed with the track capacitance of veroboard. :). DVI is fine. Just stick with the lower resolutions where you have plenty of colours. I can even solder the SMD connectors now. :) Dilute the solder paste with gel flux until it's stringy then apply it to the pads with a toothpick, pop the socket on and give it a blast of hot air. A lot of the time it seems to work now. :) Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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stanleyella Guru Joined: 25/06/2022 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2488 |
I will post 2350 hdmi asap. it will use adafruit hdmi break out and can't see problems, car reversing monitor or tv works. |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 7745 |
Start a new thread for it when you do, Stan. It will keep the info together for when someone needs it. Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| Bleep Guru Joined: 09/01/2022 Location: United KingdomPosts: 610 |
I'm fine with the 3 suggested options, I don't see any point in continuing to develop the 2040, the 2350 is just as cheap, just as easy to use. I've never had a HDMI problem, driving everything from a HDMI to VGA dongle to an old Dell monitor with only VGA, through a 15 year old Dell monitor with HDMI to a Samsung 40" TV & using a Adafruit HDMI header. If you *really* must have VGA use a HDMI to VGA dongle, they are self powered from the 5v on the HDMI & cost less than £/€/$5 on Ebay. Yes I do still have several 2040 Picomites, which can just continue using 6.02 for the rest of their lives, I'll probably try to upgrade my GameMite to 2350, we'll see how that goes. As an experiment, I just converted one of Peters original 2350 HDMI references designs to use the new ST7796S LCD, because I didn't have a LCD 2350, it was easy & I gained 2 GPIO pins 26 & 27, which are already brought out to the edge connector, & yes it's significantly faster. On an older LCD using a program that hammers the display it sped up from 496mS per screen update to 378mS per screen update, if I also used screen updates in the background I could get 320mS per screen update, on a HDMI screen the max I can achieve is 220ms per screen update, so not too shabby. Photos really do not do LCD screens justice, this screen is very bright and clear, if you use font 7 you get 80x38 in the editor or 60x24 with font 1, yes you might need glasses to use Font 7, I do, it's crystal clear. Regards, Kevin.  |
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thwill Guru Joined: 16/09/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 4281 |
 .Just because I introduced this thread doesn't mean I have anything against the RP2040 designs (I still think @Mixtel90's original PicoMiteVGA is splendid) or the CMM2. It's just that the proliferation makes it more difficult for that subset of us who are interested in pretending that there is a future in a Pico based "retro-recreation" Boot to BASIC computer to know what the target platform should be. Also I imagine Peter is getting pretty sick of having to juggle the firmware on all the PicoMite variants. Personally the only time I start the real hardware is for smoke-testing of something I've otherwise developed in MMB4L. And I'm aware this is all pretty much pointless other than as an exercise in mental-health ... though maybe IF(*) I get MMB4L running on Android ... and then IF I work out how to combine the interpreter and a game together as a single installable Android package ... then perhaps it will be me that creates the next Flappy Bird and the money will roll in ... ROFLOL  .* The Android tool-chain for native (i.e. C) programs appears to be a sack of s**t. Best wishes, Tom Edited 2025-06-09 20:17 by thwill MMBasic for Linux, Game*Mite, CMM2 Welcome Tape, Creaky old text adventures |
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| zeitfest Guru Joined: 31/07/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 563 |
It would be good to settle on a foundation pattern. In my situation, I don't want to build configurability into a program, so I need a predefined arrangement for the sdcard and i2c I/O - but there are too many versions of MMBasic projects to try for generic compatibility. Would it be sensible to use the VGA Picomite as a reasonably generic platform ? I don't need the display connections. Edited 2025-06-09 22:01 by zeitfest |
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| Volhout Guru Joined: 05/03/2018 Location: NetherlandsPosts: 4981 |
According Wiki the original Flappy Bird took only 3 days of coding. Using MMBasic I could in 8 hours starting from scratch. I bet you could do this in 1 evening. Go for it... Volhout PicomiteVGA PETSCII ROBOTS |
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| Volhout Guru Joined: 05/03/2018 Location: NetherlandsPosts: 4981 |
Hi zeitfest, When I interprete the forum posts correctly: 1/ The 2040 development ends with this release, and so does VGA. 2/ The future is 2350 and HDMI (or LCD). Volhout PicomiteVGA PETSCII ROBOTS |
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| Volhout Guru Joined: 05/03/2018 Location: NetherlandsPosts: 4981 |
Hi Kevin, That works, but you need the "alternate install" from Tom's documentation, and in several of Tom's programs small modifications must be made. (avoid reserved keywords and such). I have a Game*Mite running 2350 with RC25 on it. I don't know how to create a UF2 file from it's memory, but otherwise I could send you the patched files (or Tom may do this on his Git once 6.00.02 is released) It is hard to get the old pico off, so I did build (with Toms generous offer for a blank board) a new one. The new one I have a small 500mA lipo between 2350 and LCD, mounted the aux connector top side, and am still looking for a small speaker. So the whole thing is very low profile. Thinking about a housing. And replace the 3 switches (RESET/SETUP/START) with a slightly taller stem. Volhout Edited 2025-06-10 00:45 by Volhout PicomiteVGA PETSCII ROBOTS |
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| Bleep Guru Joined: 09/01/2022 Location: United KingdomPosts: 610 |
I would/have used the standard version, ie the one for a LCD display. With this version you have complete control over CPU speed 48 to 420MHz if your RP2040 will go that high, or 48 to 396MHz again if your RP2350 will go that high, should you need to over or under clock. |
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| Volhout Guru Joined: 05/03/2018 Location: NetherlandsPosts: 4981 |
This is the one..  PicomiteVGA PETSCII ROBOTS |
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| stanleyella Guru Joined: 25/06/2022 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2488 |
mcp23017 got told off for using this but it got loads of pins that can be input or out put. dunno why i2c not more popular as I had this and vlox rangefinder and oled didplay all going same time  Edited 2025-06-10 07:11 by stanleyella |
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panky Guru Joined: 02/10/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1114 |
I am not a gamer, either playing or programming - I have no requirement for keyboard, mouse, game controller or VGA/HDMI so I hope the full suite of LCD screens with touch will continue. Although somewhat expensive the 7" or 9" SSD1963 displays are perfect for my interests (weather stations, GPS mapping, battery controllers, test equipment etc. in standalone battery powered units). Also the full colour range available with the Micromite 2, MM Extreme and Armmite varients is especially good. I hope we don't loose site of the microcontroller side of Geoff's original concept. Doug. ... almost all of the Maximites, the MicromMites, the MM Extremes, the ArmMites, the PicoMite and loving it! |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 7745 |
I would consider that safe, Doug, however I would seriously consider moving from the RP2040 to the RP2350 anyway. There is only one Pico platform really. It compiles from a single source with defines to decide the version. Peter isn't weighted down by having separate sources for each version; PicoMite, PicoMite HDMIUSB and Webmite. The main thing is, IMHO, given that the Pico and the Pico 2 are very similar in price should the Pico 2 be considered to be a replacement for the Pico? Although that idea is unpopular with some, it has a lot of advantages: - Flash is doubled to 4MB and RAM to 512kB. - The CPU cores are more efficient. - There is an extra PIO and there are extra PIO commands. - There is the option to use the HSTX (remember that this is actually an 8-bit high speed transmit port - it doesn't have to be for DVI generation, although at the moment that's the only way in which it is used). - The ADC has been fixed. - If more IO is needed the RP2350B is available, with no changes to MMBasic. You get 8 ADC channels instead of 3 (usable) too. - PSRAM is an option. - Pico format pinout is identical. If you unplug a Pico and plug in a Pico 2 you get an instant performance upgrade. - Power demand is generally less. - Scheduled to stay in production until at least Jan 2040. There are more of improvements (even ignoring the two RISC-V cores!) which MMBasic isn't using. The above is only scratching the surface. I know, there's nothing wrong with the original Pico, so why not continue to support it? Sorry. I don't see why keeping compatibility with the older platform should restrict the new one in any way. If someone wants to continue using them for their own projects then that's fine, but I think it's time to draw a line under MMBasic development for the RP2040. At the current state of development it's till an excellent little module but it's firmware expansion capabilities are now severely limited and, if you need more IO, you have to add more hardware and you may have to write the drivers to handle it. I can't think of any real operational advantages of the RP2040 over the RP2350 apart from being able to overclock it slightly faster in some circumstances. At the moment the Pico is also about 20% cheaper (£1) than the Pico 2, but unless you are buying a few that may not be an issue. From a hardware point of view the only real disadvantage of the RP2350 is the more complicated power supply circuit. That's irrelevant if you are designing round a module like the Pico 2 that has taken care of it. Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| PhenixRising Guru Joined: 07/11/2023 Location: United KingdomPosts: 1285 |
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| Bleep Guru Joined: 09/01/2022 Location: United KingdomPosts: 610 |
Hi Harm, When I get it done, a UF2 dump would be great, but I won't be getting arround to it for a while, I haven't even got a Pico2350 going spare at the moment. Regards, Kevin. |
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| Volhout Guru Joined: 05/03/2018 Location: NetherlandsPosts: 4981 |
The RP2040 compensates this advantage by having PIO counting at least equally fast. And if you desire, at any pin, up to 8 pins simultanous. But again, this acounts for the 2350 as well. Volhout Edited 2025-06-10 21:25 by Volhout PicomiteVGA PETSCII ROBOTS |
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| PhenixRising Guru Joined: 07/11/2023 Location: United KingdomPosts: 1285 |
@Volhout Do you mean this? |
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| matherp Guru Joined: 11/12/2012 Location: United KingdomPosts: 10164 |
Let's be clear. No-one is saying you can't keep using your old RP2040. 6.00.02 will simply be the last release for functional changes for the RP2040. Likewise, I won't be making changes to VGA. Why support more colours on VGA when HDMI already does it and, as noted, cheap HDMI to VGA adapters are readily available. In fact, there will probably be little or no future changes to HDMI either. The functionality is already cpu/bus limited. For, example, why doesn't 800x600 support RGB555? Answer, there simply isn't enough bus bandwidth to feed the HSTX peripheral with the data fast enough and PSRAM is far too slow to be used for anything "real time" My intention post 6.00.02 will be to focus on the RP2350B PSRAM PicoMite using my DIL module as the standard platform.  I've just ordered another 5 of these from JLC and total cost fully built was USD70 including shipping and taxes (USD51 without) so pretty competitive with commercial alternatives and BETTER (he said humbly) Using the 64-pin chip with PSRAM opens lots of opportunities for direct coupled LCD displays including SSD1963 etc. Carrier boards can easily be designed to connect the DIL module to the displays and with in-memory framebuffers and PSRAM there are opportunities to do lots of new interesting stuff. Edited 2025-06-10 21:33 by matherp |
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| Volhout Guru Joined: 05/03/2018 Location: NetherlandsPosts: 4981 |
Thanks, I'll give this a go when the release is out. No hurry, so not doing it twice. Volhout PicomiteVGA PETSCII ROBOTS |
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