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Forum Index : Windmills : New Farm mill ready to go ~1KW.
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GWatPE Senior Member  Joined: 01/09/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2127 |
Looks like enough for a power inverter. You could still clear this up. Gordon. become more energy aware |
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KarlJ Guru  Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
Sorry, only reason for the batts is for the GTI. Seems overkill to have 7.5KW of battery storage just for the GTI but Latronics recommend 200AH 48 V battery bank, which I'm just shy of at 160AH. PL20 will look after the dump load which is about 4OHMS. If I kick it in at 56-57V, should give it a little more headroom as dump a little smaller than max output of the mill (similar to Phill), grid doesnt go down very often and if there is a scheduled outage (which they usually are), I can shut down the mill. The question is will the PVE 1200 actually move its rated power of 1200+W at 55V. How does it decide how much grunt to push into the grid, i can only think its by the rate at which the batt voltage is going up....or down. Luck favours the well prepared |
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| KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
Oh an on the cable depth thing..... I cheated in more ways than one, I did not use orange stuff, just grey and I buried it about 400mm deep -Ripper on the tractor will "find" it at the recommended depth of 600mm anyway, same theory applies with the conduit, the ripper will tear out 80m of cable whether its buried in orange, grey or any other colour of conduit. As far as I know, if its under 100V then you can do as you wish, if not then....... Luck favours the well prepared |
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MacGyver Guru Joined: 12/05/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 1329 |
[Quote=KarlJ]this = gold, but needs sliprings to be saleable I think I have a simple fix. Do what I'm going to do and that's put a spring-loaded "stop" at 90 degrees both ways from center with the windmill (upwind machine) facing in the direction of usual wind flow. The output wires run down the inside (in my case) or outside of the tower. When the windmill yaws to the point it will start wrapping the output wires around the tower, it hits the stop. The spring lessens the impact. Woah! Either God's making popcorn or we're having a dandy hail storm! Anyway, where was I? Putting stops 180 degrees apart like this will limit the yaw for sure, but you won't have to worry about tending the lines all the time and more importantly you won't need slip rings. In most areas, the wind generally comes from the same direction. In my case, the Pacific Ocean provides off-shore breezes nearly 24/7 except for about a week a year when we have on-shore winds. I'm still working on my generator (and likely will be for several weeks) but when it's done, I'll put up some pics and you'll be able to see how the stops work. I'm still using a whopping tail, mind you; gotta keep the gennie pointed directly into the wind best I can. Nothing difficult is ever easy! Perhaps better stated in the words of Morgan Freeman, "Where there is no struggle, there is no progress!" Copeville, Texas |
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| GWatPE Senior Member Joined: 01/09/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2127 |
Hi Karl, In answer to question 1, NO question 2 is a bit more complicated. The PVE1200 has a power point tracking algorithm. There is a finite reponse time for the PVE to calculate the appropriate loading. It does lag the windmill power, so the battery will help to smooth the power flow. My PVE1200 allows the voltage to rise to approx 60V for max capacity. Increase in power up to 1500W is possible, but voltage rises to around 75V. This is not sustainable, and the invereter will derate, and back OFF the loading. My windmill is automatically switched OFF during the gusts, if the battery voltage rises to 62V. The PVE copes with this as well. If the diversion load is set for 56-57V, then a lot of power will be wasted. Better to increase the set point up to about 59V. The PVE will operate without a battery. "Bolty" operates without a battery, but with a modified TC48. WRT your system, only time will tell. The battery should not be too affected by brief high voltage [up to say 60V] transients. Most of the time the wind will not be max. My old and basically dead 48V GEL lead battery was only 200Ah when new. probably about 40Ah now and this is OK for the PVE1200. Today has been moderately windy, with peaks up to 800W. You should be on a winner with the latronics unit either way. Gordon. become more energy aware |
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| KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
Yes, I went for the battery and PL20 solution based on the advise here that without mods the TC48 will fry. Incidentally, I was advised against it based on the experiences here, unless your mod was done... Pretty steep -considering i'd have to fix it ontop. Email from Latronics regarding TC48 and dump load. Hi Karl, The TC48 can come with a dump load option. The model is TC48P RRP $793.00 Kind Regards, William Pettit Electronic Engineer PL20 recommended wiring with wind 2010-01-22_200153_PLWINDsheet1.pdf OH and I read up as much as I can on the VRLA type of SLA batery I have and it will tolerate a 2.5VPc as long as you keep it cool.... I figure give the batts plenty of space in between and put them on the concrete so they cool well in this type of scenario, and although I would like it to make 1000W+ all the time the reality will probably be different  Luck favours the well prepared |
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| KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
off forum till Tuesday, Weekend sorting all the batts/ controllers inverter pouring concrete Monday Wish me luck! Karl Luck favours the well prepared |
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| KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
Here's some pics of the now quite expensive setup learned a bit from Eastcoastgreen energy, the all singing all dancing tower has the top portion with a 3/1 ratio. thus 3m of 4" bore casing avove the pivot and only 1m (870mm to be precise) to the bottom anchor, welds were less than great so I took it to my local welder for an extension and some lugs "just in case". Anemometer now on the shed, moved from the house and gone up another 2m on old height (used the carbon fibre Yacht mast for the lower bit almost killed me putting it up there 
Electrical board, space in there for 2x 2KW solar inverters too -should arrive Wednesday Oh and notice the three un-switched 240V outlets, sparkie did me a favour here, inverter is hardwired but he's happy to do whatever I like later (after electrical inspector does his thing) and put a plug on it so I can run it back through the modified energy meter (ins and outs swapped over on the shunt) -this will give better real time data that I can log (by hand) against windspeed on the anemometer logger and the ammeter (hasnt arrived yet). So one outlet for the energy meter, one for the phone charger 5V supply for the shunt meter and one phone charger for the anemometer. Anemometer does have 5V output but was easier to use the phone charger and enough stuff there already. 
Still waiting on the shunt and the main battery diode which have some space down the bottom. and wiring is there done. some recycled porcelain terminal blocks (from the old house board very handy and have neat little covers too (I cheated and ran the power out the front rather than through the back of the board but still neat Terminal un-used if for the 2nd dumpload, unfortunately the 30A rating wasnt for the use of plug connectors which got hot and stuffed the relay with only 18-20A being pushed through it during testing. SSR may be the go bring on the advise! 
Batteries all nicely placed with air gaps, balance bars, insulated and boxed, lights up the fencing wire I was using to pull wires through the board nicely! 
The BIG moment! Pole in the ground, self supporting 5" bore casing 5.7m long. 1.5m in the gound along with 3m3 of concrete -cant see that getting moved by anything In all quite a productive weekend Top piece and Mill head waiting in anticipation of the concrete setting! -I had to be forcefully held back! Oh and notice the fridge for the voltage doubler and rectifiers 
Luck favours the well prepared |
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Downwind Guru Joined: 09/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2333 |
Hi Karl, Looking good mate. 
You must be somewhat pleased all your hard work is close to bearing fruit now you have the tree planted. I see the site inspector Sophie has passed a careful eye over you work. Did it pass? Only problem is 80 metres is a long way to walk for a beer out of the fridge. 
With around 4 ton of concrete for the base i dont think it will be moving in a hurry. Pete. Sometimes it just works |
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| KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
If any Melbourne Forum Members are interested I may need a hand putting on the top part late next week at 4m long + my extension an extra pair of hands wouldnt go astray Luck favours the well prepared |
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| Jarbar Senior Member Joined: 03/02/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 225 |
Karl i will be there. Anthony. "Creativity is detirmined by the way you hold your tounge".My Father "Your generation will have to correct the problems made by mine".My Grandfather. |
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| KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
ON ya, I'll give you a call when I'm closer to the time, Welding on the tower should be done by Tuesday next week so I cant see any change out of next weekend. Leaving it perilously close to moving date (to Perth) but hey stuff happens and with all the input here it will be as robust / reliable / bullet proof as it can be. Luck favours the well prepared |
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| KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
Tomorrow is the BIG day, have all the "new" bits assembled, 50A shunt, SSR relay for dump load 2 and of course the 140A battery isolation diode. Taking the brother in-law and Anthony (Jarber). Will be exercising full restraint, no beer, no champagne until there is power making it to the grid, then ceremoniously I will smash a bottle of bubbly into the rotating blades..... or perhaps just into the tower! Stand by for a barrage of pics, data and other dribble about how good it is! seems luck has been on my side this week so all should go well. I watched this tower raising off fieldlines for inspiration, was a real tear jerker! first up mill BTW forecast is orecast for Wednesday Winds: Northeasterly 5 to 10 knots tending southeasterly 10 to 15 knots during the afternoon. should give us some 7-8m/s or 28km/hr at our spot. Bring on 600W I guess! Luck favours the well prepared |
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| KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
All good mill up and a max seen so far in basically very little wind up to 10A. This sucker really produces the goods! Blades are absolutely SMOOTH as, no hint of vibration wobble or any other ill effects. ----Thanks Phill!!!!!!!!! Basically just after startup, she pumps power into the batts Luck favours the well prepared |
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Greenbelt Guru Joined: 11/01/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 566 |
KARLJ, We Gotta have a PIC of this machine, I've been watching this progress report for some time. with the planning, designing and testing this has gone through its like a new Boeing leaping into the sky!!. I want to see it RUN!! I Can't fault the kids, That paint job is actually pleasing, You have done a Aircraft quality Job on this project. and I'm sure Glad it was you who paid the piper. I'm one of the GRRReeen people on this forum.  and its all your doin.
When you get to Perth. you will need one of Gismo's new Piclog's to check the oil level in your new Baby. I want to note here that Phil has earned the respect of all who witnessed his pioneering work on the aluminum blades. Luck goes with you--Roe Time has proven that I am blind to the Obvious, some of the above may be True? |
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| KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
Just got the word from dad monitoring closely, Max now 12A and seen in the 5-10A most of the afternoon. PVE 1200 tells me we have delivered 1.2KW to the grid since lunchtime and the wind has yet to exceed 8m/s. A couple of gusts have lifted the tail off the stop but otherwise no furling as yet. I have the video on my computer, not having any luck getting it up on youtube...anyone got any tips? I'm hoping Jarber will post some of his pics pending my return (to the mill) in a few days. Trust me I'm as disappointed as you not having the battery for the camera (thought I'd lost it but at home on the charger) BTW Dad is considering making a small mound 20m from the turbine so you can set up the picnic rug and watch it without doing in the back, outdoor chairs cutting it for the moment! Certainly worth it as its beautiful to watch above anything else and the whirring from the 100S stators is like music to the ears. Luck favours the well prepared |
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| JimBo911 Senior Member Joined: 26/03/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 262 |
KarlJ Congrats on a job well done. Sure feels good doesn't it. Have a couples of beers, lay on the gound looking up and watch it GO!. Got to love it. Jim |
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| Jarbar Senior Member Joined: 03/02/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 225 |
Gidday all, had a great time helping Karl,his father Damian and Tom install windmill.The photo's that follow were nearly as challenging to put up.Learned a lot,thanks Karl.Phils mill is well made and a pleasure to watch and listen to. Anthony. 
Now come on Tom where did you hide my camera battery? 
Pull Tom pull,I think we need a bigger chain,or a heavier Tom. 
Who drilled these holes,at least one out of three lined up. 
After much hole filing it's up.What a relief,what satisfaction. 
Now for some wind and there was some but had to brake mill whilst finishing wiring controls in the shed. 
Before we left,5 amps showed on meter,no photo.Of course it reached 10 amps after we left and no smoke. 
"Creativity is detirmined by the way you hold your tounge".My Father "Your generation will have to correct the problems made by mine".My Grandfather. |
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| MacGyver Guru Joined: 12/05/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 1329 |
And here I thought everything "down under" was upside down. Well, I stand corrected; stuff apparently leans to the left instead. Nothing difficult is ever easy! Perhaps better stated in the words of Morgan Freeman, "Where there is no struggle, there is no progress!" Copeville, Texas |
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| GWatPE Senior Member Joined: 01/09/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2127 |
- looks like someone has just been busy updating the photos. Gordon. become more energy aware |
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