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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : *** COMM *** MuP Ver. 2 Available
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| WhiteWizzard Guru  Joined: 05/04/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2927 |
I am not trying to make an Arduino compatible unit/header - this is a MicroMite unit/header that uses a minimum number of connections to give the maximum flexibility for any BSF members designing new MicroMite boards. There are a lot of 'standards' out there which by definition means to me there is NO standard!! We don't need switching capability between 5v and 3v3 logic levels (causes potential confusion (and blown uControllers) for beginners) and there are so many cheap far east modules on ebay that cater for the thousands of potential combinations that people may need. I still say that the five connections are the most suitable for the MicroMite 'world' - and have proven to work well. And people can still use their own 'modules' they currently use with a MicroMite if they want to! So on this occasion I don't mind not catering for . . . Arduino 'standard' USB modules. 
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vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
No John, not only. There are 3.3 and 5V variants. You can order them separately. Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
WW, is not wise, many Bluetooth adapters come also with this standard. You are "insulating" the micro/maximite from the world and limit the users options. Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| WhiteWizzard Guru Joined: 05/04/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2927 |
I am open to suggestions - please describe a header connection that is compatible with Arduino's, Bluetooth adaptors and anything else that you suggest so we can have a 'universal' header. I am about to put more boards into production so I will hold back for an open discussion on this. My only request is that this is no more than a single row 5-way header on a 0.1" pitch. Thanks in advance for your help . . . . |
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| vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
As I didn't created the standard, you need only the SparkFun's Eagle libraries. But be careful, there are two connectors: - the emitter (USB adapter); - the receptacle (the board who needs the adapter). (the naming is my doing, you can name them as you wish) You can easily swap them by mistake. Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| WhiteWizzard Guru Joined: 05/04/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2927 |
vasi, to save time can you just name the pins & functions as a list. Don't worry about 'orientation' at this stage. By the way, I wasn't totally clear as to what you mean about there being two connectors (or what you mean by swapping them). I believe a list will be clear and will also avoid any misunderstanding as to what you are suggesting. Thanks again for your help with this. |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 3998 |
Oh. I googled for your phrase Arduino standard USB-to-Serial which took me to here Which says 5V Seems made for confusion :( John |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 3998 |
Depending on what one wants, 5 pins are not enough. Some want: Gnd 3.3V 5V Tx Rx DTR (used for reset) Also, some want 5V TTL and some want 3.3V for Tx & Rx. (However, the common PL2303 etc seem fine to me...) John |
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| vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
FTDI Friend offer the logic at 3.3v but the VCC pin is indeed at 5V and obvious you need to wire it through a regulator. A 3.3V USB adapter which use the same 6pin connector. And there are a host of them, but only if you want to see. Bluetooth modules who use the USB-to-Serial "Arduino standard" connector. Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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Lou Senior Member  Joined: 01/02/2014 Location: United StatesPosts: 229 |
Please Guys, If the USB module standard is to change do it soon before Zonker finishes his current board layout. I can only see five pins needed for uMite: 1. 5v 2. 3.3v 3. Tx 4. Rx 5. Ground For my use the DTR signal suggested earlier to reset the uMite is not needed and will add another pin to the USB interface that could confuse it with the PICkit3 programming connector. The WhiteWizzard 5-pin USB-to-Serial Module is pin compatible with the SparkFun 718 4-pin module (using care when plugging in) and adds the 5v signal to the to the 5th pin, making both useable for me (the 5-pin is preferable). If a pinout change is necessary to make it compatible with the 'rest of the world' let's figure it out now. Otherwise my vote is to leave things as they are and use the WW USB-to-Serial Module as the standard, it works well for me. What say the rest of the group ?? Thanks Guys, Lou Microcontrollers - the other white meat |
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| WhiteWizzard Guru Joined: 05/04/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2927 |
So basically you are saying 5-pins aren't enough because you propose DTR is needed too. However, I debate that DTR isn't required so hence back to 5 pins. Regarding 5v TTL - I disagree with this as it is NOT required for the MicroMite and hence why confuse beginners to the MicroMite with the potential they 'blow' their MicroController. Remember that this is a MicroMite dedicated header for Coms and Power - not a universal usb module designed to compete with the hundreds of cheap units found on ebay (some of which caused great problems for Beta testers - just read the forums if you are not aware of these issues!!) So I am still voting for the 5-pins proposed with no viable challenge to this (yet!!) WW |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 3998 |
Please re-read what I put. I said "Some want". (To be clear, I don't care. I have plenty of cheap USB/"TTL" etc things and they're very cheap anyway. I couldn't care less about Arduino "standard" especially as there clearly isn't one.) John |
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| WhiteWizzard Guru Joined: 05/04/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2927 |
These units only have one voltage out (ok this may be selectable BUT some MicroMite boards require BOTH 3v3 and 5v). Therefore this 'Arduino standard' may be suitable for Arduinos but I suggest here that it is not ideal for the MicroMite modules being created (some with onboard LDOs, others without). And what would the CTS & RTS be used for in the MicroMite world with regards to console Coms & Power? I am open to valid justifications. I am not being 'defensive' of what has been proposed - I am just waiting for a valid challenge to the 5-pins offering 3v3, 5v Rx, Tx and gnd. I have debated with myself about adding a reset signal (as suggested to DTR??). How many people out there actually need the MicroMite reset connected to DTR? Please 'shout' if you need this as a necessity! 
Remember when replying that this is NOT a general purpose I/O header. It is only designed for console Comms and/or Power supply input. WW |
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| vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
The confusion will start when the user will try to use an already bought product... you suppose that the world starts with your gadgets... but if the community desire this, then I don't mind, as micromite is not in my area of interest. Just wanted to warn about "the universality" of your adapter... The Serial connector is "the flaw" (well, from my angle) who captured my attention on all the boards until now... Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| Lou Senior Member Joined: 01/02/2014 Location: United StatesPosts: 229 |
JohnS said: I couldn't care less about Arduino "standard" especially as there clearly isn't one.
I agree 100% WW said: I have debated with myself about adding a reset signal (as suggested to DTR??). How many people out there actually need the MicroMite reset connected to DTR?
I agree 100%, I don't need reset or the extra pin required. Vasi said: The Serial connector is "the flaw" (well, from my angle) who captured my attention on all the boards until now...
Sorry Vasi, but I can't see a flaw. I think we already have something awfully good for the uMite needs, why change anything ?? My 2 cents worth. Lou Microcontrollers - the other white meat |
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| Goeytex Regular Member  Joined: 12/05/2014 Location: United StatesPosts: 74 |
If the goal is to specifically support Micromite, then I would leave it as is. Keep it simple and cost effective. There is no way to please everyone. I wouldn't try. If at some point you want to offer a more universal device that also supports Micromite, then offer as a separate item. My 2 Cents Bill |
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| vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
Fine by me then. Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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MicroBlocks Guru Joined: 12/05/2012 Location: ThailandPosts: 2209 |
I have got a specific reason for the DTR being used as a reset signal for the uMite. When you want to monitor some signals with a PC, a uMite is a pretty handy 'tool' to be able to read analogue and digital signals. The PC can be a 'connection to internet' or a logger or a 'master controller' etc. For that you need to make sure that the uMite is always responding and working. If the PC side detects that there is no more communication with the uMite then simply using the DTR to reset the uMite will in 99.9% of the cases get it running again. I have done this with arduinos before, and i know i need that functionality. Now to be clear, it does not have to be on the same connector, on the boards i am designing it definitely is, but that DTR can just as easy be on another pin. Microblocks. Build with logic. |
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| vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
It is for emitter (USB adapter): - GND - CTS - 5Vcc - TX - RX - RTS And for receiver (mcu board): - GND - CTS - 5Vcc - RX - TX - RTS For RTS we have DTR and I guess for CTS we can have the 3.3Vcc but careful, some Arduino boards and adapters connect CTS to ground. And the standard is somewhat preserved. - Board USBAdapter - GND GND - 3,3v 3,3v - 5v 5v - RX TX - TX RX - DTR DTR P.S. I can make a list with all the boards, adapters and cables using this standard. Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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Zonker Guru Joined: 18/08/2012 Location: United StatesPosts: 767 |
Wow... My little 8bit head is spinning in circles... I think the object of the upcoming LCD prototype board is to make it compatible with what is already being offered to customers at Phil's website. Lou also seems to think the 5pin WW module for console IO is very suitable also... DONE... The board will have a "power" connector with: +RAW, +5out, +3out and GND... There will be a "solder-bump" jumper to source +5 from the WW module (if wanted) The board has SMD +5 and +3 volt reg's onboard to supply external power More info and a schematic will follow soon... (will open a new thread)  |
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