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Grogster

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Posted: 01:58pm 16 Nov 2016

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Now, this is an interesting new thread!

Crikey.

Please, everyone, don't give matherp the keys to something REALLY powerful - God knows what he could do with it!

Excellent work, guys, and an extremely impressive screenshot on the first post.

With all this extra speed, do you think it would be possible SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE to allow WAV file playback via the MZ? It would simplify audio-based projects, if the MM could directly access the WAV files and decode them to audio signals. This only on MY wish-list though, and if not practical or possible, then that is fine - plenty of MP3 player modules available to get around that problem and they are cheap as chips.

QUESTION: WHY resonator and NOT crystal? I would have thought that the crystal would always be a better choice for accuracy over a resonator - especially once you multiply the oscillator up to 198MHz! I don't care that it has to be a resonator, I am just curious as to WHY it needs to be one over a crystal.....

Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops!

panky

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Joined: 02/10/2012
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Posted: 02:34pm 16 Nov 2016

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I think Python is just BASIC rebranded by some geeky would be computer science grad trying to impress his tutor! If anyone can tell me what's "WRONG" with our Basic I would love to hear it!
Doug.

... almost all of the Maximites, the MicromMites, the MM Extremes, the ArmMites, the PicoMite and loving it!

MicroBlocks

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Posted: 04:45pm 16 Nov 2016

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I can tell you what is wrong with Python. :)
Incredible how something like that can be popular.

Microblocks. Build with logic.

Paul_L
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Joined: 03/03/2016
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Posts: 769

Posted: 06:09pm 16 Nov 2016

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Move over Cray!

And, I don't care what you guys think, I still like COBOL running under CICS!

Paul from Poughkeepsie

TassyJim

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Posted: 07:03pm 16 Nov 2016

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Grogster said
QUESTION: WHY resonator and NOT crystal? .....

I think Peter is referring to an external oscillator module (which could/should be crystal based)
It just can't use the usual 2 caps and a crystal connected directly to the 2 mcu pins.

Jim

VK7JH
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Grogster

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Posted: 08:12pm 16 Nov 2016

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Hokey pokey.

Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops!

matherp
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Joined: 11/12/2012
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Posted: 11:26pm 16 Nov 2016

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Quote would be possible SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE to allow WAV file playback via the MZ?

Not directly it doesn't have the hardware but it does support i2s so would just need an external audio codec

Quote QUESTION: WHY resonator and NOT crystal?

This is a chip errata across the whole MZ range

Just to be clear what is needed is a crystal oscillator not a resonator. It is likely that any final release would probably use a 24MHz oscillator rather than 12 as this allows full 200MHz operation
Edited by matherp 2016-11-18

JohnS
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Joined: 18/11/2011
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Posted: 12:45am 17 Nov 2016

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kiiid said Good one Peter

I have a MZEF64 board (new revision) currently in manufacturing. Here is what it looks like (those grey things are actually headers, don't mind the poor render). And the schematic, which is based on the original MZEF64 which you have.
A full port of MMBasic NOT based on Harmony but on PLIB is done (credit to Spas for the huge volume of work on that port) and will be out to Geoff for approval in the next day or two.

2016-11-16_122945_MZEF64.pdf

Sounds very interesting.

Just wondering about the osc - is it OK as regards the silicon errata?

Also, what sort of price for a built board?

John

JohnS
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Posted: 12:47am 17 Nov 2016

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chronic said
Welcome to the MZ zeitgeist ! I am getting similar speed increases,
160 k lines /sec for simple loops ( carefully optimised though

).

Are you using Harmony or a bespoke PLIB?

I have revised my 100 pin MZ pcb and have had some made but I haven't
built one up yet...I could make the gerbers available I guess. It would
be good to maintain some compatibility .

Microchip also have some cheap dev boards one for MZ -

dev board

there is also a cheap 470 one.

Yours may well be of interest to people.

But that Mchp board is NOT cheap it is EXPENSIVE!

John

JohnS
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Posted: 12:50am 17 Nov 2016

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JohnL said $32 AU for the 100 pin microcontroller chip alone.

http://au.element14.com/microchip/pic32mz2048efg100-i-pt/mcu-32bit-pic32mz-200mhz-tqfp/dp/2500473?ost=PIC32MZ2048EFG100& selectedCategoryId=&categoryId=800000000185&searchView=table&iscrfnonsku=false

Better quality external crystal oscillator will set you back about another AU$5.00.
+ PCB + tons of decoupling caps and you still have to build it?

All of this to run "dressed up" old quirky Basic language in 2016?

If you really need interactive scripting language on the powerful microcontroller why not use much easier and exponentially more powerful up to date language like Python, or anything else (C , javascript, etc.) on SOC boards with proper multitasking operating system , built in WIFI, tons more memory and all other bells and whistles for less than $10?

only one example.

https://getchip.com/pages/chip

Even full genuine Raspberry Pi and Beaglebones will cost less than this.

[flame suit on]
I guess hard core MMbasic fanboys will justify things differently.

You have some good points, though (MM)Basic and Python are hardly different enough to care for most realists. It's probably easier to learn Basic and you're less likely to hit weird effects due to garbage collection than say Javascript (an ugly language to be polite).

Power usage of the things you mention is FAR higher than a typical 'mite - and that matters a lot in many applications.

John

kiiid

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Posted: 01:11am 17 Nov 2016

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It will be very cheap (no idea about pricing yet).
I would strongly suggest staying with 12MHz oscillator. The reason for that is because the new series of MZ/EF go up to 252MHz, not 200, so with 12MHz the frequency adjustment can be made better. At least my plans for now are to have 12MHz on the MZEF64 boards

http://rittle.org

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WhiteWizzard
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Joined: 05/04/2013
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Posted: 02:21am 17 Nov 2016

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@kiiid,

That is one nice looking unit (as are all your designs) and the obvious question is: Are you intending to be offering these for sale to TBS members?

If so, then a couple of questions:
1> Any idea on timescales?
2> Would you also be willing to sell unpopulated PCBs?

Keep up the great work

kiiid

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Posted: 02:30am 17 Nov 2016

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WhiteWizzard said @kiiid,

That is one nice looking unit (as are all your designs) and the obvious question is: Are you intending to be offering these for sale to TBS members?

If so, then a couple of questions:
1> Any idea on timescales?
2> Would you also be willing to sell unpopulated PCBs?

Keep up the great work

Thanks! The time scale is about two weeks from now I will have manufactured boards. Currently I have the older MZEF64 which is basically the same but without the MikroBus slots. It is what @matherp, myself and Spas are currently using for development. I am supplying Geoff with a copy as well. The new version with the MikroBus will be available as soon as we clarify the final pinout (which is currently in process) so some pins in the connections to the Microbus modules will probably change, that's why I can't give you any better timescale for now. I will make some small number of unpopulated PCBs as well.

http://rittle.org

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isochronic
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Joined: 21/01/2012
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Posted: 03:48am 17 Nov 2016

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From memory the built Curiosity mchp mz board is about US$50 , the '470 $30,
OK not cheap but still not too bad.

So I gather the micromite series still do not have native 32-bit integers ?

JohnS
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Joined: 18/11/2011
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Posted: 04:25am 17 Nov 2016

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chronic said So I gather the micromite series still do not have native 32-bit integers ?

They have 64-bit. Just don't use the top 32...

JohnEdited by JohnS 2016-11-18

MicroBlocks

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Posted: 05:37am 17 Nov 2016

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With so much flash still available would it be possible to compile the source with the free edition of the compiler?

Microblocks. Build with logic.

matherp
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Posted: 05:43am 17 Nov 2016

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Quote With so much flash still available would it be possible to compile the source with the free edition of the compiler?

It certainly compiles with "O1" and runs about 15% slower (XC32-V1.42)

kiiid

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Posted: 05:43am 17 Nov 2016

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That flash is reserved for drive A:

http://rittle.org

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sagt3k

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Posted: 06:03am 17 Nov 2016

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Then A: is internal flash?
And B: is uSD?
A is shared with the code?

kiiid

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Posted: 06:21am 17 Nov 2016

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Yes, but this is still not done and the concept has not gone through Geoff's approval as well. Just an idea under development for the moment.
I think at some point in the future we will have to eventually merge the current two ports into one. How about that, Peter?

Edited by kiiid 2016-11-18

http://rittle.org

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