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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : Temp LM335 voltage fluctuations
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twofingers Guru  Joined: 02/06/2014 Location: GermanyPosts: 1593 |
Hi Peter, as Volhout said:  If I understood you correctly, then the control system for the electric boiler never worked as it should. What we know is, the LM335 voltage from the outdoor sensor is steady (no fluctuations)! Please check this for the remaining sensors: House, Boiler temp. Check also the power supply. Steady too? My next step would be either the replacement of the Maximites or I would take a voltage divider (eg 2x 10k or 2x 1k) and connect it to the supply voltage and ground. The middle should be connected to the analog input of the MM. Do you still have fluctuations? I still suspect some issue with the VCAP. We have to be sure your Maximite shows the real values. causality ≠correlation ≠coincidence |
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pcaffalldavis Senior Member  Joined: 17/10/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 187 |
Good morning Tassy Jim, Two Fingers, Volhout and all of you! At least it is morning for me! 6:30 AM I just finished two hours of testing and while I don't know the exact problem I know how to solve it! The four to five degree C fluctuation in an 8 minute test only occurs on the CGMMStick1. I did multiple tests using all 3 temp sensors, even switching them around to see if it was the pin, or the sensor circuit. It is not pin or sensor circuit specific. All the fluctuation extremes went away when I tested the exact same setup in a MaxamiteSD1. I even tried supplying breadboard 5 volt power from a bench power supply as well as directly from the Maximites, with no differences either way. The CGMMStick1 still had 4-5 degree C fluctuation in 8 min. The MaximiteSD1 had a maximum fluctuation in any given period of 1.2 degrees C, totally acceptable and probably accurate. The average 8 minute fluctuation on the CGMMStick1 was 4.2 degrees C, 3 degrees GREATER than the high/low extremes noted on the MMSD1. I also did some other tests as were suggested, like a battery on my multi-meter and a few others. All good learning experience for me, but no anomalies to report. I guess we are going to be able to put this thread to bed soon. I have four more CGMMStick1's and I'll check them all on the same breadboard setup and see what their 8 minute fluctuation results are. Maybe I was using a faulty one and the others will work fine. I don't know yet. I'll report back later. At least there is some consistency back in my universe. Yahoo! I could not have done this without all of you! Thank you all so much. Peter in Hyder Alaska We're all here 'cause we're not all there. |
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| twofingers Guru Joined: 02/06/2014 Location: GermanyPosts: 1593 |
Hi Peter, that sounds good! (so far)  Michael causality ≠correlation ≠coincidence |
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palcal Guru Joined: 12/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1993 |
I've been following this thread with interest but what I have now found more interesting is where you live. Talk about small and remote, tell us a bit about the place and what you do there besides freeze for most of the year. Paul. "It is better to be ignorant and ask a stupid question than to be plain Stupid and not ask at all" |
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| pcaffalldavis Senior Member Joined: 17/10/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 187 |
Test results are in. I have five CGMMStick1 Maximites. I ran eight minute tests on all five using the exact same breadboard setup for which the MaximiteSD1 had a 1.2 degree range from low to high temperature in an eight minute period. Low to High ranges on the CGMM's were from 3,9 C at the least to 4.3 C at the most. All of these are too wide of ranges for the precision I need. Those translate to 8 minute ranges in F of 6.9 F at the least to 7.9 F at the most. If it is O C or 32 F outside you can't rely on a reading of -2 to +2 C which is 28.5 to 36 F. Not good enough. Fortunately I still have one more MaximiteSD1 which I can use for this electric boiler controller, and the one running the Wood-fired boiler if I ever dismantle it. I should get some more Maximites, but I don't know who is selling such things these days. I think I might pass on selecting more CG Maximites if they are still selling such things. Thanks for the interest Paul. It is just a beautiful place on the ocean. Not really all that cold either, but lots of snow as this is a rain-forest. I retired here in 1999 because it is the place with the most freedom I've ever experienced. There are no taxes of any kind, and no services. No police, no fire, no zoning or dog catcher. A man is free to live here according to his ability without interference from any governmental meddling. In my experience that is really hard to find in the world without going off the grid. And I do like my electronic helpers..when the work as they should. There are about 40 households in Hyder with about 75 people. Everyone knows everyone and some of us even like and tolerate each other. The natural beauty is breathtaking. Bears are a pain though, but they are only in town in spring and fall. Once the Salmon start running in the summer they mostly go up to Fish Creek to feast. That is about four miles up the road from town, still on the Salmon River. It is a great place, just over the line from Canada. We get hundreds of RV tourists each summer, but I'm back off the main road and don't see most of them. Thank you all for your help. I hope something in all of this was of interest to others too. Peter in Hyder Alaska We're all here 'cause we're not all there. |
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| Paul_L Guru Joined: 03/03/2016 Location: United StatesPosts: 769 |
Hi Peter. Hyder sounds like it is really remote. Congratulations on finding a place that suits you. It looks like the nearest gas station is in Meziadin Junction, 42 miles away and in Canada. Here in New York we now have to have a special, high security drivers license or a passport to cross the border into Canada. I don't imagine that is required up there. Years ago I used to hang out in a small cabin in Speculator NY, population 162, when I really wanted to get away from people. But Speculator had two gas stations. I retired to the Hudson Valley about 75 miles north of New York City near Poughkeepsie. We have the occasional black bear, lots of deer, and a big dairy herd 1/4 mile away. The 1500 pound Holsteins are a real pain when they get into the swimming pools in the backyards. They can't figure out how to get out. For accuracy and stability in making temperature measurements near 0°C you should really switch to using the DS18B20 digital sensor. If you really want to confirm stability and accuracy with your sensors you really should resort to putting them in a plastic bag and immersing them in ice water. Paul in NY |
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| pcaffalldavis Senior Member Joined: 17/10/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 187 |
Paul, There is actually a gas station in Stewart BC Canada just over the line. There is no US Customs station for entering the US at this crossing, but Canada put in a Border crossing post over 20 years ago and yes, we have to stop and present passports or the new land-crossing passport cards. Between midnight and 8 AM they tried locking the gate a couple years back, but that didn't last; the Canadian miners that use the US highway to get through the US and back into Canada up the road to access their mines had a fit. So now they close the office at night but leave the gate open. Folks entering Canada during those hours are required to use a phone call-in box to report before entering. The world has gone mad. I'm wondering if it would be possible for me to flash my CGMMStick1's with newer software that might make it possible for me to use the TEMPR(PIN) command. Then I'd be able to use some DS18B20 sensors. The CG Sticks are currently running MMBasic 3.0 and I've learned in this thread that MMBasic version 4.5 is capable of working with these sensors. Does anyone think re-flashing the CG sticks might accomplish that? I've never flashed a MM but I'm willing to try, and get some DS18B20 sensors if anyone thinks this might work. Cheerio and a good morning! Peter in Hyder Alaska We're all here 'cause we're not all there. |
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| WhiteWizzard Guru Joined: 05/04/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2944 |
YEP - go for it! |
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| twofingers Guru Joined: 02/06/2014 Location: GermanyPosts: 1593 |
Hi Peter, I would recommend that too! It's probably also a good idea to contact CircuitGizmos (a TBS member) he sells AFAIK the CGStick1 and can tell you more about the (fluctuate) issue. I would think he also can tell you something about updating (flashing) the CGStick1. Anyway I would order some DS18B20 (Waterproof Digital Thermal Probe or Sensor DS18B20) from Ebay. AS I said before you can use this sensors with MMBasic V3.0 and the code from the MMBasic Library (1WDS1820.BAS 29 March 2012 By Ian Delaney). Regards causality ≠correlation ≠coincidence |
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| pcaffalldavis Senior Member Joined: 17/10/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 187 |
I looked at that MM Library DS1820 code you suggested. I'm still using line numbers so I'm a little out of my depth to understand and implement that in my MMBasic version 3 program code. I used to program in several languages without line numbers, but I just never took the time to convert my Boiler.bas program which started out in version 2.7 using line numbers. It was a well commented program, and approached 34K several times, so I trimmed out many of the comment lines to keep it small enough to load and run on a MMSM1. Now since lots of the comment lines have been removed years ago it would take some time to convert it from line numbers to labels. It could be done, it is just that life is short and I try to use time as wisely as possible. Are MM's still limited to program sizes of about 34K? I also saw what look like commands in that library code that I don't see any reference for in my Version 3 MMBasic manual, like OWREAD, and OWWRITE. So I'm not sure if I converted the library code to line numbers it would work in my MM. Others may know better. Maybe I'm missing something. I ordered up some DS18B20's this morning so I'll look into flashing some CG Sticks one of these days before they arrive. What MMBasic version is currently being used? We're all here 'cause we're not all there. |
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| WhiteWizzard Guru Joined: 05/04/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2944 |
Hi Peter, MicroMite's have more space now - 50K With v4.5 for your MaxiMites I cannot comment on available space (as not near a setup). v4.5 is the way to go. Visit geoffg.net and go to the MaxiMite page for a link to v4.5 download. Also instructions there too. OWREAD and OWWRITE have become ONEWIRE READ and ONEWIRE WRITE Converting from line-numbers (to no line numbers) is reasonably straight forward. If you are happy to 'share' your code (either here on TBS, or via an email to me) then I am willing to convert it for you  Glad you got the DS18B20s ordered - how long approx before they land with you? |
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| pcaffalldavis Senior Member Joined: 17/10/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 187 |
Used to be I could jump to the last page of a thread to post a reply. Now I seem to have to click through each page/next. Is there an easier way? I got the 4.5 from Geoff's site, and looked at the instructions on the Circuit Gizmo site for the Sticks, but I don't see a link there to download their bootloader.zip file. I wonder if I can use the bootloader.exe from Geoff, but use the required jumper on the CGMStick1 to reflash it with 4.5. I emailed CG to ask where their bootloader.zip file is located for download, if it is any different, but have not heard back yet. Mail from the 48 states to here usually takes about 10 days. That is where my DS18B20 sensors are coming from. China is usually 5 weeks. We're all here 'cause we're not all there. |
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| WhiteWizzard Guru Joined: 05/04/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2944 |
Hi Peter, From TBS 'home' page (where you can view all the current posts); then clicking the arrow on the extreme right hand side (next to the persons name that posted) will jump to the most recent post (i.e. the last page). Clicking the Thread's title (i.e. on the left of the 'summary' page) will jump to the first page. Another method is to jump to any page (in a multi-page thread) by clicking on the page number under the Thread's topic (as listed in the summary page) Hope that all made sense!! |
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| WhiteWizzard Guru Joined: 05/04/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2944 |
I too can't see a link to CG - I would give it a go whilst you wait - you never know; it may just work!! That is off-course to only do it if you can spare the module being down until you hear from CG/someone (just in case it doesn't work!). I say "go for it" - you won't damage the hardware by trying CAN ANYONE CONFIRM IF CG IS COMPATIBLE WITH THE STANDARD VERSION OF v4.5 Bootloader  |
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| pcaffalldavis Senior Member Joined: 17/10/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 187 |
Now I'm back on the correct TBS Home page. I'd created a new bookmark that took me straight into this thread, which by the way does not display all the page numbers at the bottom. All better now. I'm working on other things today so I may not get a chance to try flashing a CGMMStick1 until later. You know how sometimes when you go out to eat you see some guy at another table with his mouth packed full of food and him just talking away, letting you see all the food in his mouth while he is yammering on nonstop? I'm always embarrassed for the crude bloke when I see this. Sometimes I even cringe. Well, that would be about the same feeling I'd have if someone else had to look at my mish-mashed code. I would like it done, converted from line numbers to labels, but it is going to be so embarrassing. Maybe I'll send you an email with it to convert, but promise me you won't laugh. Not today though. Thank you! We're all here 'cause we're not all there. |
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| twofingers Guru Joined: 02/06/2014 Location: GermanyPosts: 1593 |
Very true!  My DuinoMite (a Maximite clone has 86kB free. I can't say nothing about MMBasic V3.0 but I found a manual for 3.1 at p36: Appendix C 1-Wire Communications The 1-Wire protocol was invented by Dallas Semiconductor to communicate with chips using a single signalling line. It is mostly used in communicating with the DS18B20 and DS18S20 temperature measuring chips. This implementation was developed by Gerard Sexton. There are four commands that you can use: OWRESET pin [,presence] OWWRITE pin, flag, length, data [, data…] OWREAD pin, flag, length, data [, data…] As a tool to strip or insert line numbers you can use Jim's famous MMEdit. It removes also comments and much more ... causality ≠correlation ≠coincidence |
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TassyJim Guru Joined: 07/08/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 6283 |
The bootloader that you got from Geoff's site with the MMBasic firmware is the correct one to use with your CGMMsticks. They are electrically identical to the original Maximite as far as firmware loading is concerned. Once you have done that, refer to the manual that comes with the V4.5. You will find that some of the commands are different to the more recent micromite commands. Usually just a couple of syntax issues to catch you out when getting advice from users more fluent in 'micromite' You should really bite the bullet and convert your program to no-line-numbers. It will be worth it (once you stop hitting your head on the wall). I originally wrote MMEdit to enable switching from line numbers to no-number and back again. It's a long time since I tried but it should still do the job. Just one click. Jim VK7JH MMedit |
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| pcaffalldavis Senior Member Joined: 17/10/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 187 |
Just got an email back from Circuit Gizmos. While their site says they have a bootloader that can be downloaded I never found one, and their email just referred me to Geof's web site. I just had a few minutes so I tried it and was able to re-flash one CGMMStick1 using an old XP tablet in under a minute. When it boots now it shows version 4.5 by Geoff so that was simple! I'll do the other 5 later while I'm waiting for the DS18B20 temperature sensors to arrive. Yahoo! I might find some useful purpose for these CG Sticks after all. Peter We're all here 'cause we're not all there. |
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| pcaffalldavis Senior Member Joined: 17/10/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 187 |
Now I've lost line word wrap on this thread. When I first click on it the lines are wrapped, but a second later the word wrap vanishes and the rest or each long line is off screen right. Anyone have thoughts on why this just started? I didn't change any settings that I know of. We're all here 'cause we're not all there. |
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| TassyJim Guru Joined: 07/08/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 6283 |
"Do not adjust your set. normal service will resume shortly" One of the posts on this page was 'wide'. Once it has happened it is difficult to know which post was responsible as you get the whole page wide to fit the 'wide' post in. In a few more posts, we will go to the next page and all will be well in the world again... Jim VK7JH MMedit |
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