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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : 2 new MM Plus units going crazy
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TassyJim Guru  Joined: 07/08/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 6283 |
It's a bugger when the body can't keep up with the tasks you have for it. Having a hobby to keep the mind busy while you wait for the body helps a lot. Jim VK7JH MMedit |
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KeepIS Guru Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1882 |
Thanks Jim, unfortunately it's even worse that that as this will impact on my life. FYI an update: Microchip want the Trace code from the Chips, I've just sent it off but I can feel a fob-off coming. NANO Inverter: Full download - Only Hex Ver 8.1Ks |
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| KeepIS Guru Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1882 |
As expected, Microchip reply with suggesting that bypass caps are faulty. Typical lame response. So two kits have been supplied with faulty bypass caps?. I have already tried the suggested bypass caps in parallel, made absolutely no difference, the board I tried had been running all day at 100 Mhz so was at operating temperature. I fitted the cap, powered the board to the Basic prompt,typed CPU 120 and instantly got 2 or 3 garbage characters back and a locked board. Power off and on and perfect again running at the power-on default of 100 MHz. Two new board doing exactly the same thing. One old identical board runing perfect at 120 MHz, identical in every way except for the processor. NANO Inverter: Full download - Only Hex Ver 8.1Ks |
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Azure Guru Joined: 09/11/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 446 |
It seems all things pointing towards a 100MHz part. You mentioned earlier SC said they will chase up their supply, hopefully they will get to the bottom if it. Unless the other people that purchaed from their same batch of parts run them at 120MHz it won't become "obvious" that they were 100MHz paerts. Or is that the Microchip response you just referred to? |
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| KeepIS Guru Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1882 |
That was Microchips response to SC. I feel that a lot of people don't bother running at 120 MHz so we may not know, as I mentioned earlier, my CNC controller code (the critical code that drives and reads two slave digital scale position slides) is now running at 100 MHz. Maybe when I'm up to it I'll grab a known 120 MHz part and put in just to prove it. I offered to send a close up of the processor and the soldering - it's absolutely perfect and done by a professional SMD assembler. Voltages are 100% correct, Don't know if I'd see anything on the main bypass cap with my CRO, may just compare the good and bad boards just for fun. NANO Inverter: Full download - Only Hex Ver 8.1Ks |
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Grogster Admin Group  Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9610 |
My current batch of 120MHz parts has the trace-code of 1743QC7.  These are 120MHz parts - I still have the anti-static bag they came in, and went back and looked, and they are definitely the 120MHz part. It is marked on the sticker, just not the bloody parts....   EDIT: I am a member of the Microchip Forums. If you can post your trace code here, I will post on that thread that Chronic linked to and they should then be able to come back and tell us - by their own admission - which speed it actually is. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| KeepIS Guru Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1882 |
Thanks, the Build and trace code of your units are exactly the same as mine. From reading the forum it appeared to me that the trace code may not actually indicate the speed with 100% certainty? It will be interesting to see if that can be confirmed as a lot of information seems to be contradictory on the Microchip forums. NANO Inverter: Full download - Only Hex Ver 8.1Ks |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9610 |
Now, THAT is interesting.  These are the parts I received, and here is the bag label:  I only bought these chips last month, as evidenced by the bag seal date. I have just checked a couple of my E100 kits from stock, and they too have the exact same trace code. When I looked back on that MC forum thread, I see someone has posted a (fuzzy)photo of their chip that also has the same code, and they are saying they are having issues with theirs at 120MHz. That wasn't you, was it? The problem with NOT having the speed marked on the part itself, is that all it would take, would be for one MC employee to not pay enough attention when restocking their new chips, for that person to put 100MHz parts in the 120MHz trays - and then all 120's that go out are actually 100's, and no-one knows. Not even Microchip themselves. To me, it's crazy for MC to NOT mark the different speed versions. It does not matter if there is only one speed, but if you have different speed options, it should be marked on the device itself. Disappointing. Especially when by MC's own admission, they USED to do it, but then they decided not to - the logic of which escapes me, when if you use the wrong speed part, you can have issues. Seems like MC have created a whole lot of extra hassle for everyone(including themselves) for no reason.  Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| KeepIS Guru Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1882 |
Yes that was the point I was trying to make, any mistake and there is NO WAY to tell if it's the correct speed rating, and as pointed out before there is NO internal ID that can be read to identify the part, 100 MHZ and 120 MHz read exactly the same and they are marked exactly the same - MicroChip are MORONS for deliberately making that decision to actually do this - one has to wonder why? As the forum member said, all the trace codes and paperwork mean absolutely NOTHING if the wrong speed part was put in the sealed bag. As for the picture, no I have never posted on that forum. NANO Inverter: Full download - Only Hex Ver 8.1Ks |
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| Azure Guru Joined: 09/11/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 446 |
I agree, it seems like short sighted thinking not letting a user be able to identify their 100Mhz chips they purchased from their 120MHz chips. I do not know the details behind the trace code but you would hope it allows them to identify the manufacturing batch details. If they are doing (but without actually marking the chip) what Intel used, and that was to manufacturer a batch and then test them for speed sorted into separate bins then label the chip accordingly. Without the extra final labelling they would have come from the same batch. |
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| matherp Guru Joined: 11/12/2012 Location: United KingdomPosts: 10315 |
It is quite possible that there is no difference in the parts and Microchip select 120MHz capable based on test post production - this approach is not uncommon. I have some 100MHz parts which work fine at 120MHz and some nominally 120MHz which are marginal. HOWEVER, what seems to be being missed is that SC as the retailer should have an absolute responsibility to replace the units with ones that meet their published specification. I don't know what your consumer legislation is like but in the UK SC would have no option but to make good on their advertised specification. Their discussions with Microchip would then be entirely up to them. It shouldn't be up to the customer to solve the issue. |
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| KeepIS Guru Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1882 |
That seems to be selection criteria hinted at on some forums. Yes I realise SC have that responsibility, however as these are sold in kit form it adds a level of complexity to who is at fault. I could send one back but I feel the unit would be sent out to a third party to see where the the fault is and who is to blame: IE - is it an assembly fault? Absolutely not - I normally design everything from the electronics up and also program the smaller micros in assembler for industrial control, and these were professionally assembled, as was the first working 120 MHz unit. I rewrote the sync clock code for these units and they are now working fine at 100 MHz. My main point of telling SC was this: If there is a problem with kit components, as they suggested, then SC should not advertise them as 120 MHz units until they build a couple and test them correctly (at operating temperature). There is also the cost of shipping them back and a possible bill to me - I'm not a trusting person after years in this industry. I'm using almost every I/O pin on these units in this hardware / SW application, I'm really pushing them and they run all day every day at 100 MHz without a glitch. Any other hardware fault would make that near imposable. And again, two new identical units with the only difference from the first working unit being the processor date, both new units failing in exactly the same way and only at 120 MHz. (at the Basic command prompt - no program loaded or running) It would likely cost me less to just grab a known 120 MHz part and swap it in to prove it beyond doubt. Due to my health at the moment I'm just to tired to bother with this. They are working and I can live with it, hopefully this post will make more people check the units at 120 MHz and see if there is indeed a wider problem starting to emerge. NANO Inverter: Full download - Only Hex Ver 8.1Ks |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9610 |
Get well soon....  Perhaps once you ARE feeling better, Peter's ARM-mite might be worth a try. It is super fast from what I hear. I must build one to play with myself.  Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| KeepIS Guru Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1882 |
Something I have been thinking about - I would also love to try one, hopefully the boards and parts are not to hard to come by. Perhaps my next project, I'll have look at the forum thread in earnest. NANO Inverter: Full download - Only Hex Ver 8.1Ks |
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| TassyJim Guru Joined: 07/08/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 6283 |
The NUCLEO board is $35 including GST from Element14. Peter's back-back is very handy for experimenting but it is not needed. The NUCLEO board has the USB console and programming port built-in so there is nothing else required to play, apart from a few strips of pin headers. If you start attaching power hungry displays, a power supply will be needed. Jim VK7JH MMedit |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9610 |
New Avatar, Jim. Cute puppy.  Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| TassyJim Guru Joined: 07/08/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 6283 |
We lost one of our 8 year old cavoodles in April and the remaining one was feeling lonely. We were too so enter Pascale... It took 3 weeks for the old dog to accept her but now the are great mates. I had forgotten how much work a puppy is. Jim VK7JH MMedit |
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| KeepIS Guru Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1882 |
Jim, thanks for that info, I have ordered the NUCLEO board, I like the idea of the back-pack so I'll have to see where I can get one from. Thanks again to all. NANO Inverter: Full download - Only Hex Ver 8.1Ks |
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| TassyJim Guru Joined: 07/08/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 6283 |
It is really nice to have working board straight out of the box. Have fun. Jim VK7JH MMedit |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9610 |
Reported. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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