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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : Let's discuss reducing the number of active MMBasic designs
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Mixtel90 Guru  Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 7745 |
mmm... 52 quid for 5. The PGA2350 is £9 then they charge $3.90 postage. Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| Volhout Guru Joined: 05/03/2018 Location: NetherlandsPosts: 4981 |
I hope you did choose for 1.6mm (or 2.0mm) thick FR4. Otherwise getting this out of a breadboard pops all the components off (bending the board due to pull-out force at each pin). Volhout PicomiteVGA PETSCII ROBOTS |
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| matherp Guru Joined: 11/12/2012 Location: United KingdomPosts: 10164 |
1.6mm is standard for JLC. I've had them in and out of breadboards with no issues. Spudger under each end |
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| PhenixRising Guru Joined: 07/11/2023 Location: United KingdomPosts: 1285 |
RP2350 DIL: The TPS7A7002DDAR (regulator) is rated 3A. What's the recommended limit for external devices? |
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LeoNicolas Guru Joined: 07/10/2020 Location: CanadaPosts: 502 |
I will give you my thoughts about this subject... There are so many variants of the Pico board that I struggle to understand what models exist, the differences between them, and even where to find a list of boards and their specifications, or where to buy them. |
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| matherp Guru Joined: 11/12/2012 Location: United KingdomPosts: 10164 |
The TPS7A7002DDAR is only used for DVDD (c 1.3V) the AMS1117-3.3 is the main regulator for 3.3V which is rated at 1A |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 7745 |
There are four "official" ones, Leo. Pico (the original - uses the RP2040) Pico W (as above but with wireless connectivity) Pico 2 (the "new" version using the RP2350A chip) Pico 2 W (as above but with wireless connectivity) The RP2040 chip alone The RP2350A chip alone (64-pin) The RP2350B chip alone (80-pin) That's it - all that Raspberry Pi offer either directly or though dealers. Various companies and individuals buy the chips and integrate them into their own modules. The only one that I know of that can be overclocked sufficiently and stably enough for the highest resolutions that MMBasic supports is the board by matherp mentioned above. AFAIK this is only obtainable from WhiteWizzard in the UK or by having some made by JLCPCB. Not too far behind it is the PGA2350 from Pimorini, which uses the RP2350B on a pin grid array style module. There are various others, each with their own advantages and disadvantages. Not all of them have been fully tested with MMBasic yet. The RP2350B has proved to be a bit temperamental to work with, which may be why Raspberry Pi haven't produced a module using it yet. . Edited 2025-06-11 04:09 by Mixtel90 Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| LeoNicolas Guru Joined: 07/10/2020 Location: CanadaPosts: 502 |
Thank you Mixtel for the clarification |
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| PhenixRising Guru Joined: 07/11/2023 Location: United KingdomPosts: 1285 |
Don't know how you keep up, Mick  The temperamental thing; Is that the PULLDOWN issue? |
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| pwillard Guru Joined: 07/06/2022 Location: United StatesPosts: 311 |
I'm not even sure I like this thread's general direction/goal. These are just my two cents on the ideas here. I have a bunch of RP2040's and would hate to already have them left in the dust. I'm more upset about all of the FPGA "toys" out in the wild that gain a following and then die as soon as the chip maker goes fickle on us and kills production of the part. |
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| Volhout Guru Joined: 05/03/2018 Location: NetherlandsPosts: 4981 |
Hi pwillard, The RP2040's will not be left to the dust. But MMBasic 6.00.02 will be the final release. There will be a microcontroller version, a "boot to basic" VGA version, a WEB version, and USB host support (keyboard/mouse etc..) for all of them. And several audio options, SD card support. Touch LCD support. But there may not be an update after this release. And that is fine. The CMM1, and micromite, micromite plus, also do not get an update anymore. All performance has been squeezed out of these chips. So is the 2040. Just look at what it all can do. Volhout For the 2350 these is still some room to grow. So there may be a release after 6.00.02 that implement this growth. Volhout PicomiteVGA PETSCII ROBOTS |
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| dddns Guru Joined: 20/09/2024 Location: GermanyPosts: 452 |
I don't know EOL, maybe we have to live with the 2350. That's why I think, now would be a good time to set a common "standard". Because the "Micro controller" version supports LCD, I see RAM as necessary as for HDMI. So my wish would be that we agree to 2350B with PSRAM and there would be a updated/another new reference design. My wish also would be, that LCD and HDMI would share the same range of graphic commands and would be compatible. Edited 2025-06-11 16:25 by dddns |
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| Volhout Guru Joined: 05/03/2018 Location: NetherlandsPosts: 4981 |
With HDMI the video memory is inside the PicoMite, closely coupled to the ARM. With LCD the video memory is in the external (in the screen) and either parallel, or serial (SPI) connected to the ARM. The LCD will not have the same performance as HDMI. External memory has slower access. Volhout PicomiteVGA PETSCII ROBOTS |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 7745 |
The RP2040 is, I think, pretty full now, with virtually all its flash used and all its RAM used. It has nowhere to go. That doesn't make it a bad chip though, it's still perfectly "fit for purpose" and there are plenty of applications where it can, and should, be used. It's not really suitable for any further expansion though, whereas the RP2350 is. I have no problems in using the original Pico, I'm quite happy with it providing I don't want any of the RP2350 specific items like a HDMI display. It's certainly not obsolete in my book and there's no reason why it shouldn't carry on for years yet. On the other hand, I'm torn on the RP2350 and the issue of PSRAM. I, personally, don't want MMBasic to become dependent on PSRAM for anything even slightly important as that makes the Pico 2 pointless and breaks the entire upgrade path. I see PSRAM as a "nice to have" optional extra, required for specific projects only, where it can be built into a particular system. Even just on cost, any current module which includes PSRAM costs about twice as much as a Pico 2, a difference which may eventually get even bigger as economies of scale kick in and the Pico 2 becomes cheaper to produce. Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| dddns Guru Joined: 20/09/2024 Location: GermanyPosts: 452 |
That is true for the screenbuffer but not for Framebuffer neither Blit. And I'm missing sprite on LCD |
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| Bleep Guru Joined: 09/01/2022 Location: United KingdomPosts: 610 |
I've used Sprites only a couple of weeks ago, when I did the chess client for the LCD. I've also recently used both frame and layer buffers on a LCD. Basically as far as I am concerned everything that is not specifically for VGA/HDMI works on a LCD. There maybe one minor issue with one type of LCD, where you can't read the on LCD frame buffer, but that is a LCD fault, not MMBasic. |
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IanT Senior Member  Joined: 29/11/2016 Location: United KingdomPosts: 108 |
I still have a couple of PIC32 28pin DILs in stock, which can still be used if I ever need a small footprint component for a custom PCB or it's other specifics. I also have a few Pico 1 & WS Zero's in store that are more than capable of driving many of my likely future projects. The software is stable and I have a fair understanding of how to use it. I recently purchased a RP2350B DIL to play with and have HDMI running on an external display. I thought the extra GP pins might be useful. However, looking forward, I will of course just purchase Pico 2's - as for the extra £1 or so, it doesn't make sense not to. I'm not a 'gamer' as such and generally see large displays as useful for control purposes. I agree with Mick that the focus should be on Pico 2 but would still be interested in seeing RP2350 based systems developed around Peter's DIL. In some ways it reminds me of going back to Micromite and Micromite Plus. I used 28p DIL PIC32s for my Mites but also had (still have) an Explore 64 board (with SD card/uSB etc) that I developed on. Regards, IanT |
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| dddns Guru Joined: 20/09/2024 Location: GermanyPosts: 452 |
Sorry then for that, I was still thinking: Appendix G – Sprites Sprites VGA AND HDMI VERSIONS ONLY |
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| dddns Guru Joined: 20/09/2024 Location: GermanyPosts: 452 |
@Bleep with a standard 2350 you cannot have a Framebuffer on a SSD1963 as it of cause depends on the resolution. With PSRAM that changes and is real fun then plus no more headaches because of heap running out. With 800x600 HDMI MODE3 it's no fun either without PSRAM |
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| Bleep Guru Joined: 09/01/2022 Location: United KingdomPosts: 610 |
Nothing is perfect! |
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