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Forum Index : Off topic archive. : Floods
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| VK4AYQ Guru  Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Al Thanks for the kind thoughts mate, at times we must keep looking ahead as it is to disturbing to look back. We all have our problems but when we dwell on them they get bigger, I think one of the best factors is how the community comes together and helps, when this happens you can't sit and cry as there isn't the time for it. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
Geez Bob that's sh!t news mate, glad you're keeping at it and have high spirits. I had the time so I had a little cry for you and your loved ones. For the first time with my youngsters (3 and 5 years old) we had prayers for those in need in QLD. the girls asked "why do we pray for those people" Well i'm a realist and though i have little faith in religion,from the other side of the country there's little se I can do. We just cant comprehend it here in Perth, which hasn't had any meaningful rain in 6 months. I'm sure you are the rock of the family and if there is anything at all I can do to help drop me a line 0401 627 446 and i'll call u right back. Best of luck and my prayers are with your daughter in laws. Luck favours the well prepared |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Thanks Karl I went for a drive around yesterday, and went to registered as flood affected at the local emergency center, it is heartbreaking to see the people with new houses that where 3 meters under water, young people such as yourself all crowded into the emergency center with little kids and babies. At a place called Fernvale a little rural village whole subdivisions of new homes are now unlivable, most are less than 5 years old. I cannot understand for the life of me why the councils let them develop these estates on a old flood plain, the soil got there from past floods so it will happen again regardless of the human ants that try to make it otherwise. They have made a big dam for Brisbane water supply and flood mitergation called Whivenhoe Dam, it blocks of the Brisbane River near Lowood the closest village to my place. Have a look on Google Earth. This is a huge Dam some 80 KL long. The scary part they are not talking about was that it got to 200% full during the flood, that meant that they had to do a panic release into the Brisbane river adding to the floods downstream. If per chance the Dam let go by itself through the emergency spill way it would have meant another 6 meters of flood below the dam and I will leave it to your reasoning as to what that would have done. If it was to let go completely, Heaven Forbid, it would wash all civilization below the the dam into the sea and possibly kill a million people. Our councils and politicians have the collective intellect of a Gnat. It is also built on a known Geo fault line, and caused a few minor earth quakes when it first filled, pretty smart our engineers, it is like Brisbane is living on a 1000 mt Atom Bomb waiting to explode. And for those in the dark side of government monitoring all types of communications, take some note of what I say, it isn't said with malaise, but with disappointed in the stupidity of governments and politicians as a whole. TAKE NOTE!!! BOMB, DEATH, DESTRUCTION --- KEY WORDS. The SES and various other groups have done a marvelous job helping people and cleaning up the mess, volunteers have done more than the government in the clean up. police and army are busy looking for bodies around the Lockyer valley and the brisbane river and bremmer river, they are not telling the public the full extent of the deaths for obvious reasons. I was one of the lucky ones on higher ground and it was bad enough here, so my heart goes out to the real victims. Unfortunately my health doesn't allow me to do much to help, but there are plenty trying to do so. I can understand that you have little faith in religion as a lot of people are disalusioned with the mainstream churches these days, but God is still there. As was said in WW2 there aren't any atheists in the trenches, so adversity brings out the real thoughts of people, when the normal systems we all trust fail around us, we need a higher power to talk to. The weather patterns are on a wild swing at the moment and I feel we are in for a lot more critical events such as we see now, drought and flood, and the cumulative effects on the economy, at least we as a group are trying to do something about it but most people are going along in ignorance and bliss relying on the government to help them. The blind leading the blind, it is said. Thanks for the kind offer and thoughts, but I am coping OK at the moment, just enduring the musty smell in the house and surrounds as the house tries to dry out, and the smell of rotting flesh of the wildlife that didn't make it. As for the rock, that is my head I think. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| neil0mac Senior Member  Joined: 26/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 210 |
I suspect that all major barriers to the flow of water are the result of past geological upheaval. It is just that eventually water finds a though and millenia later someone says, "What a great site for a dam!". Anyone know of a dam in Oz that is NOT built on a fault line? |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Neil I think the thing is whether they are on an active fault line or a past fault line that hopefully is inactive. As you say fault lines make good dam sites after time but to build a city in the direct path of the run off from an active one doesn't make sense, actually most cities don't make much sense as they are nearly all built on flood plains and fertile garden soils,using up precious farm land when unproductive high land is ignored until they run out of flat land. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
Interesting take on it Bob. as bad as fire of course, wipes out all the spiders, frogs etc etc etc almost surreal until the mozzies come back then the remainder follow. I have seen the biggest flood in my grandmothers lifetime at Bairnsdale but at a few of metres very little of the town affectedm a few crops and a the odd house built on the flood plain in complete stupidity. nothing like the scale in QLD or Vic for that matter. Pollies not talking any figures but trillion should almost cover it. Sad part is other countries on the news tonight talking thousands dead for some disaster or other, makes ours look insignificant... MESSAGE IS CLEAR CLIMATE CHANGE IS HERE - DO IT FOR YOUR KIDS and GRANDKIDS reduce your own footprint to nil and if possible negative for those who cant or wont join us in the cause. All it takes is concious decisions every day buy recycled toilet paper -yes buy deli food vs pre packaged take lunch to work vs going for a drive to get it get public transport run cars on LPG run the air con bare minimum etc etc etc Luck favours the well prepared |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Karl If only they could legislate for common sense all the other things would follow, but if the politicians legislated for common sense it means they too would have to practice it and the chances of that is is a big nill minus squared. We as a group are aware to some degree as to the need for change but the politicians are only interested in change if they gain kudos or extra taxes, preferably the latter, so what hope has the general population of non thinking conformists have to help create a better environment. The news media run around here like headless chooks playing and replaying their news stories until you get sick of it to save them them the royalty on the programs they would normally show, cheap copy for them posing as news coverage, the worse plight of others in the world hardly gets a mention. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5116 |
This is a good link... http://www.abc.net.au/news/infographics/qld-floods/beforeaft er.htm Before and after photos of the flooding. But I think this picture ( source here http://www.abc.net.au/news/photos/2011/01/18/3115275.htm ), gives a real idea on the amount of water that flowed over some parts. 
One thing that I'm glad to hear the politicians talking about is rethinking the way we build our houses, and where we build our houses. 50 years ago, up here in Queensland Australia, we built most of our houses on stumps, from 2 to 10 feet high. Under the house was used to park the car, have a workshop, wash the cloths, and was where the dog lived. Up stairs, the ceiling was high and we had lots of big windows. The yard was big ( cause the house foot print was smaller than the typical house today ), and the fences between yards was only 3 feet. The house was cool, cause there was a breeze, and almost flood proof, up to a point of course. I grew up in this type of house, and remember as a kid during the wet seasons, we had a foot or two of water under the house on a couple of occasions during the wet season. These days, we build low set houses on the ground, they are bigged cause they need to add on a garage for the car, and the "media" room. The fences are 8 foot tall, cause no one wants to talk to the neighbors anymore. These houses are hot, cost a fortune to air condition, cause there is no breeze. And the smallest flood is a disaster. We need to get back to building houses that are designed to work well in our climate, not houses that are "in style" or fashionable. Problem is, local governments insist you build to these stupid regulations, where fashion is more important than cost of living or survivability. Hopefully the events of the last few weeks will change a few building regulations. My rant, its a pet hate. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Glenn We live in hope of improvement and if this new panel has people instead of public serpents and politicians on it some sense may prevail, it will be a big ask to get a city with high density housing on a known flood plain entirely safe, as it will happen again, its only a matter of time. The highset Queensland you describe is the ideal residence for the climate but it is out of fashion, brick and tile monstrosities have become fashionable along with postage stamp size allotments to screw the maximum profit out for the developers and councils alike, when will they learn. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi All Please spare a thought for our southern cousins now experiencing flooding on an unprecedented scale throughout inland New South Wales and Victoria, they are going through a Similar crisis to what Queensland suffered over the past two weeks. Of note that for years they winged about not enough water in the Murry Darling river system, and blamed Queensland farmers for the shortage, now we are sending them all we can they are still not happy because we sent all our agricultural residue and silt with it. It has rejuvenated their wetlands, (the ducks and water foul are happy) but washed away their smaller settlements idyllically located with water views on the major rivers While we Queenslanders feel sorry for them, but I suspect some of the QLD farmers that they persecuted during the drought are having a bit of a chuckle. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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Greenbelt Guru Joined: 11/01/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 566 |
Hi all, There was a time in history when government could face adversity with a plan and commitment to solving the recurrent problem. Now a days the Government is 34% of the population, by the time each one of the politico's gets his share of the 30% tax paid by 66% of the people who's income is 31% of the average politician the Barrel is empty. School teacher's and policemen get the Axe. The pic's below are something from the past. No city today could even began to afford this kind of project. The Los Angeles River in California, 1930's 50 miles of concrete. Most of the time it's a trickle of water as shown in this first Pic, The next pic, shows the reason why it was built. 
Time has proven that I am blind to the Obvious, some of the above may be True? |
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| KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
I know its nothing to laugh about but my Dad and I have talked about this regularly for years, building houses on flood plains, particularly at low elevations above sea level means the water cant drain away fast enough naturally and when you add lots of roads, houses and other impenetrable structures (to water) the runoff increases dramatically. Hence an old flood plain becomes a really silly place to build houses. there are plenty of suburbs around Melbourne just asking for disaster too and most insurence companies are fully aware of the risk, hence flood is either not covered or very expensive. Looks like plenty getting burned by insurance companies right now I spare a thought for landslide victims in Brazil where 700+ are known dead, makes our death toll look very good and masks the scale of the damage Luck favours the well prepared |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi karl it just shows what a media event the floods here are when huge disasters hardly get a mention. Unfortunately the founding fathers of our cities didn't have the nous to look at the long term development of cities , this is happening everywhere around the world. insurance companies are like politicians, Blood Sucking Parasites, that give people a false hope and sense of security, then dash that hope when it is really needed, depending on their legalese gobbledygook to worm their way out of of contractual promises expressed and implied. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
That dam 
As time passes, the issues relating to the Queensland flooding begin to become clearer. But, as always, the blogs (and Booker) take the lead with the MSM trailing far behind. Posted on the Booker column is a comment from another blog, originally posted by an Australian who lives about 140 miles north east of the Brisbane River catchment, on the coast. Of the floods that devastated Brisbane, he notes that the rain depression had formed weeks earlier and had caused disastrous floods in Rockhampton, 250 miles to the north, and caused wide spread flooding in the central Queensland coalfields. This rain depression was slowly moving south without losing intensity and flooded the Burnett river catchment to the extent Bundaberg city suffered serious flooding. Still the rain depression moved south with very heavy rain, with the north easterly air flow carrying the rain right into the Brisbane river catchment. Thus, the Wivenhoe dam management had plenty of warning that this rain was on its way and had been so for weeks. Yet the policy of the Queensland Government was to keep the dams full because of their advice from the likes of ***Tim Flannery et al. This was that, because of global warming, Queensland was going to remain in drought. ***Must see, this has been going on for some years........... http://www.greenlivingtips.com/blogs/243/Flannery-and-Global -Dimming.html What is then crucial here, we are told, is the timing. This is one of the points made by Regionalstates: it was "all inconvenient". The rains increased in the Brisbane River catchment on Thursday 6th. By Friday afternoon the spillways were releasing 8000 cubic meters a second - just a trickle for this dam. This was in order to maintain 100 percent capacity as per government policy. Then, as we also learned from Regionalstates, no one could be contacted over the weekend of the 8/9th to make the decision to go against government policy, and open the spillways to lower the level in the dam. Thus, over the weekend, the dam went from 102 to over 144 percent in just two days - and this is a massive dam. By Monday it was too late, the die was cast. The inflows to the dam were greater than could be released. Yet the gates should have been been throttled back because of the enormous flow in the Bremer river and Lockyer Creek which join the Brisbane below the Wyvenhoe dam. The level in the dam went to within an inch or so of having the emergency spillway plugs failing and releasing an unbelievable amount of water to save the main rock and earth fill wall. They are saying, behind closed doors, just over an inch more of rain and the dam would have failed. Brisbane would be no more. (I am told that if this happened it would have meant 6 meters extra water in Brisbane and higher surges up river to approx 12 meters at Lowood and Fernvale the first two towns below the dam and 10 meters in Ipswich, with all that water and debris it could have taken out all the bridges on the Brisbane river. Town planners would have had a clean slate to replan the city on higher ground if anyone was left to fill it. The town center highrise buildings would have been under threat of collapse and the riverside residential towers would have collapsed due to erosion on the foundations.) I have added the paragraph above after talking to a water recourses engineer who cannot be named for his own protection, he has however sent a report to state and federal government supporting the above. Bob Because of bad policy, policy makers asleep at the wheel over the weekend, the Wyvenhoe Dam did nothing to reduce the flooding in Brisbane. In all, building the dam was a waste of time if it could not be managed in the way it was designed. If the dam had been at 40-60 percent when the rain started, there would be no flooding in Brisbane and the dam would have done the job for which it had been designed. Perversely, straight out of the "shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted" department, water is now being released from the Wyvenhoe Dam (pictured), although levels remain at 160 percent, which is what caused the problem in the first place. This is matched by a weasel-worded, "on the one hand this, on the other hand, that" article in The Australian, which completely misses the point about the impact of the global warming obsession on water management policy. ---------- Foolin Around |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5116 |
Yeah I did wonder about the management of Wyvenhoe too, it should have been able to soak up more water than it did. I think since there have been a lot of water restrictions in Brisbane for years before this wet season, the government wanted to make sure the dam was full to the brim when the up coming dry season starts. It would have looked bad if the dam wasn't full after such a big wet season. But it backfired on them, the dam was too full. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Glenn They are only politicians and are therefore exempt from reason and practicality. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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gsw999 Newbie  Joined: 22/01/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 19 |
I have been watching this on the news in the UK and I have seen lots of houses that appear to be built on "stilts" that are only about a foot tall, if your going to build something off the floor at least make it a few feet off the floor, hopefully the country can recover, Terribly upsetting to hear about the young lad who died trying to save his little brother, rest in peace little man :( Our politicians are a bunch of reptilian scum also seems that this is the same worldwide, at least you Aussies dont have the EU to put up with. Peace. i am not interested in giving my hard earned money to corrupt "leaders" to pour down the drain. |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi gsw999 There have been some terrible stories emerge from the floods and a lot of positive as well by way of people going to great lengths to help other people, even the rational use of army and airforce equipment and manpower, its nice to see them helping instead of killing. Politicians are the same world wide and the pubic serpents that underlay them are the real problem as politicians only form the tail if the snake.(arseholes) Thank goodness Captain Chook found Australia a long way from the EU, but we still have the American influence and decadence permeating our social fabric, they brainwash the populace by the use of the Cretanizer that lives in the lounge room. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| grub Senior Member Joined: 27/11/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 169 |
"The Cretanizer", I like that! Can see the ads now, "Buy the Cretanizer 3000 now, watch and learn all that we want you to know and think, and soon nothing else will matter." |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Grub It is a sad fact that the Cretanizer has replaced common sense in the community as the constant barrage of misinformation particually directed at children and the intellectually marginalized among the population. The brainwashing starts at an early stage in life as the devils eye is used as a baby sitter. It is a shame as there are many programs about useful and good things, but the stupid sitcoms with all the canned laughter to teach you what is funny predominate. Truth and reality are bypassed for the popular or gory first of all by the program compilers and then by choice of the trained monkey viewers. Off the soap box bob. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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