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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : MM+ school laptop
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kiiid Guru  Joined: 11/05/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 671 |
No ideas and not enough statistical information yet, but my guess is they will last long enough. The flexing is only about 5 degrees to let the key touch the panel underneath, and the board is far more flexible than that. But again - not enough real-life data. http://rittle.org -------------- |
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| WhiteWizzard Guru Joined: 05/04/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2932 |
My only 'concern' would be dirt ingress (as with any keyboard!). The mechanical strength I believe to be 'robust', but any dirt/liquid ingress may result in user issues. However, that said, at least it is possible to take apart the product and clean the PCB (unlike my £60 iMac sealed keyboard 'destroyed' with a cleaning wipe  )
Will be interesting to see the durability over time - if we all buy one then Kon will have more 'usability data'  |
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panky Guru Joined: 02/10/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1114 |
Kon, Do you have a price and availability yet? I am keen to get one to play with 
panky ... almost all of the Maximites, the MicromMites, the MM Extremes, the ArmMites, the PicoMite and loving it! |
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| kiiid Guru Joined: 11/05/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 671 |
For availability, I don't know... depends on whether I will be able to manufacture more of these, when and how many. As of now it costs me about $200 in manufacturing costs per piece to make the first few samples. Of course this will drop significantly with increasing the number of manufactured boards, but in any case, the price of the earliest devices will be pretty much as for collectables :) http://rittle.org -------------- |
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| kiiid Guru Joined: 11/05/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 671 |
Well... after a long delay it is finally on! https://www.crowdsupply.com/knivd/ello-2m Please give support if you can so the world can see the first mass produced MM+ powered laptop
Thanks! http://rittle.org -------------- |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 4036 |
Great! Ohhhh nooooo - but MMBasic's NOT open source!! John |
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MicroBlocks Guru Joined: 12/05/2012 Location: ThailandPosts: 2209 |
Come on John, the reason for that is abundantly clear and explained a million times. When i learned software/hardware nothing was open source. My first computer the commodore VIC20 and soon after the Tandy TRS-80 Model I were not open source. Still we hacked it to pieces. Later the BIOS on the PC was not open source, My GWBasic was not open source, TURBO-C was not open source, en even more later Visual Basic 1-6 was not open source, etc etc.... Not to mention the hardware it was build on. All not open source. Did not hamper my ability to learn though and i think because it was not open source i had good documentation, magazines with articles, books to study etc. Open source is not the only way, in many ways it is an inferior one. Kiiid! I hope you sell it very well and get this into the hands of many!! I am a bit out of cash at the moment (moving to another city ate lots it) but i will at least go for the unassembled one. Microblocks. Build with logic. |
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| panky Guru Joined: 02/10/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1114 |
John, with the greatest respect, you seem to be obsessed with "open source". I agree fully with Microblocks -if it was just totally free slather with MMBasic source everywhere we would have no proper documentation, programs not working everywhere because of different versions running rampent. Geoff has always agreed to provide source to anyone requesting it and is extra ordinarily responsive to any bugs, enhancements, issues etc. I fail to see how totally "open source" would improve this? I for one, would NOT like to see MMBasic in the wild without Geoffs guiding hand (besides which, he's entitled - he wrote it!). Respectfully, Doug. ... almost all of the Maximites, the MicromMites, the MM Extremes, the ArmMites, the PicoMite and loving it! |
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| WhiteWizzard Guru Joined: 05/04/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2932 |
Lets not forget the main point - Kon has 'created' a product based on a MicroMite - something many of us no doubt talk about, but very few actually see through to something real and physical. And Kon has got Geoff's full backing. The fact Kon has created a product is a massive step forward, and now having created this 'sponsor' page I wish him every success. I agree with John's point in that Kon mentions 'Open Source' on his 'sales' page. This is something I would personally remove. And just to add my 2 cents/pence: I love the fact that the development is 'controlled' by Geoff with the help and suggestions of TBS members. Without Geoff, (and some other members such as MatherP), the MM would not be where it is today. Making it Open source in my opinion would 'kill it off' as there would be no 'control'. Keep up the GREAT work Kon - and best of luck
WW |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 4036 |
I'd like to emphasise that Geoff's entitled to do as he likes. But that DOES NOT make it open source and so that term ought not to be used since it misleads those (i.e. the vast majority who'll read the advertisement) who know what open source is. Call it what it is. Don't mislead. Why would anyone even WANT to mislead? If it's no longer OK to want HONESTY then that's up to you. (Here it would be illegal to mislead in that way.) John |
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| WhiteWizzard Guru Joined: 05/04/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2932 |
As previously mentioned - I agree with John. Have PM'd Kon suggesting the removal of these words on his campaign page. John has highlighted an important issue - let's take it in the valid manner he raises so that the MicroMite name is spread in a positive way . . . . |
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| JohnL Senior Member  Joined: 10/01/2014 Location: SeychellesPosts: 128 |
Very vague specifications. ie. Which PIC32 ucontroller? What is "simple" protocol? How is this interfaced? Where are the Schematics for an open source hardware? How is 512K of RAM set up? etc, etc.? Is this a stand alone system? If yes, what is the stand alone development environment, MMbasic and you quote C? If it requires external development system, then whats the point of the whole thing? If you want to sell this to people other than "Fanboys", you will have to provide a lot more details and justification. Who is exactly behind this development, credentials, assurances that this will be delivered, supported and maintained?? I don't see option on 'Crowd Supply" site to ask questions?? |
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| kiiid Guru Joined: 11/05/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 671 |
Thanks for the comments. I have requested the words "open source" to be replaced with "creative commons license" in the page. Also, a link to GitHub with the full schematics, bill of materials, assembly drawings, and firmware for the keyboard controller will be available from later today. Probably some specs are a bit vague indeed, however that will be clarified with the schematics. I physically can't list everything on that page, so now it is just as much as to provide the general needed information. I don't know what "etc. etc." is referring to. The schematic of the 2M² (the one with 512K RAM) I will also publish, if the campaign manages to reach the stretch goals level. http://rittle.org -------------- |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 4036 |
Reading Geoff's web pages etc MMBasic does not appear to be under Creative Commons unless you can point me to where it says that. Various variants are under various licences. John |
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| MicroBlocks Guru Joined: 12/05/2012 Location: ThailandPosts: 2209 |
Hardware license is easy as it is Kiids design. Software i would say 'freely available' Everyone can figure out if the license is suitable for them or not. Don't need to spell out everything to the finest details. If it comes with MMBasic and has support of Geoff then that can be stated exactly like that. If the goal is to teach hardware with basic control and even cfunctions then all that is needed is freely available. MPLabX is free, MMbasic is free. Both are not open source but do the job just fine. Microblocks. Build with logic. |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 4036 |
That looks better. Or use "readily available". There are requirements, at least according to some of Geoff's pages, to keep such as Copyright notices intact and/or provide all downloaded files. And so on. So some simple form of words that makes the requirements clear would help people realise they have duties they would not otherwise expect. An example of a thing that people would expect from open source is that they could change the source and then distribute those changes freely - which I gather Geoff does not allow. Another example is that if person A has some open source code then they can send it to person B who may in due course send it to C - and so on - or put it on a web site for open download, with no requirement to get any permission. Also not allowed by Geoff, I understand. John |
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| Bill7300 Senior Member Joined: 05/08/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 159 |
Bare boards have been ordered here, principally to support the cause. Exchange rate differences make supporting the assembled offering a less than trivial consideration, unfortunately. Bill, also in Tassie although presently in Sydney. Bill |
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| akashh Senior Member Joined: 19/01/2014 Location: IndiaPosts: 115 |
Hi kiid, Your project looks great, congratulations! I have been researching converting my legacy code (plib) to the MZ and came across this, I see you are announcing an mz version of MMbasic, which Goeff has clearly said he was not going to tackle some time back. After researching harmony for quite some time I came to the same conclusion as him, that it's not worth relearning right now and would entail too much work. However, recently I started thinking about this differently, because there are just a few plib libraries that would need to be rewritten but both the mz and mx are very similar in terms of coding, so I am going to tackle that. I was wondering whether you are also attempting or have already ported mmbasic to the MZ? Akash |
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| WhiteWizzard Guru Joined: 05/04/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2932 |
Hi Kon, I am keeping a close eye on your 'funding' - you've had a nice 'jump' in the last 24hours! Congrats - looks like you should easily reach your target in the time remaining |
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| kiiid Guru Joined: 11/05/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 671 |
My approach for the MZ revision is slightly different. Instead of porting MMBasic to Harmony, which seems to be a cumbersome task due to the ill-thought Harmony, the plib will be "upgraded" to support MZ (work currently ongoing, results in about a month from now). Thus Geoff's original source will be possible to be compiled for the MZ system. http://rittle.org -------------- |
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