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KarlJ

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Joined: 19/05/2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 1178

Posted: 06:16am 12 Jan 2010

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great news, perhaps some longer bolts with washers, spring washers and nylocks?

This poses the question is High strength loctite as good as a nylock/metalock or spring washer?

Myself, I went for loctite and plain washers on the hub....

Luck favours the well prepared

SparWeb

Senior Member

Joined: 17/04/2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 196

Posted: 09:10pm 12 Jan 2010

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I think it was all temporarily bolted together, Karl, just to fit up the parts.

Presumably there's a matching "front-face" disk as well.

SmartDrives:

That's looking good and congratulations on keeping the cogging down to a low level.

How did the re-assembly go? Exciting...?

Now you get to consider
A) test runs to measure the output. You have access to a lathe. See my older postings for the general idea of how to do such tests, if you want.
B) blade sizing. Usually it's easier to pick a blade size after you have tested the generator, but educated guesses + a fudge factor are the norm, here.

Fun to follow your progress...

Steven T. Fahey

Dinges
Senior Member

Joined: 04/01/2008
Location: Albania
Posts: 510

Posted: 09:32pm 12 Jan 2010

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[quote=Karl]This poses the question is High strength loctite as good as a nylock/metalock or spring washer?[/quote]

A spring washer is *not* suitable in a situation of dynamic loads. It will come loose.

"For example, conventional spring lock washers are no longer specified, because it has been shown that they actually aid self loosening rather than prevent it."

http://www.boltscience.com/pages/vibloose.htm

Watch and be horrified:

http://www.boltscience.com/pages/junkertestvideo.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgwmuZuJ02I

In my not so humble opinion, the above videos are obligatory viewing for anyone considering putting a windturbine up in the air.

As to your question of using Loctite... the question is 'which one of the vast array of Loctites are you talking about?' (not even talking about the products of other brands.

Loctite comes in many varieties and flavours. When using Loctite 638, I wouldn't worry about it coming loose again. Actually, I wouldn't use Loctite (or at least not *that* one) *because* I wouldn't be able to get it loose without getting out the blow torch.

I like locking by means of mechanical means castle nuts, split pens, locking plates, locking wire, etc.etc. It's a bit more work initially, but later much easier to loosen things. Bit more work up front which will save many swear words later on.

Peter.Edited by Dinges 2010-01-14

Smart Drives

Senior Member

Joined: 06/07/2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 115

Posted: 11:58pm 12 Jan 2010

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Very interesting video, i think i might try and find some of those washers.
Sparweb: I dont have a front face disc i am bolting straight to the disc in the photo. I think the startup windspeed will be around 25km/h which is high. AAhh the reassembly was planned to perfection then the 240kg pulling power took over and i didn't really have say what happened.....it just slid in to position.
The lathe access i have is between other jobs he has so not really an option for testing. I am going to sit it on a low pole at home (2m) and test there. It will take longer but i have everything there. I am testing with my 2.5m dia. blades. Should have results in a week or two.

Cam.

All smart drive parts sold
Custom built turbine parts on
Multicam flatbed CNC Router

KarlJ

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Joined: 19/05/2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 1178

Posted: 12:15am 13 Jan 2010

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I used Loctite 262 threadlocker, "High Strength"
as for
drilling holes in torqued bolts for lockwire I have limited access so thats a looser and I dont have a jig to drill through the side of a hardened black steel nut 1/4".
and I used Loctite flange sealant between the flanges for the hell of it (stops moisture and corrosion in metal to metal faces).

For bolting on the blades, there are 4 bolts per blade, the outer 2 on each blade Nylocks and for the inner two, I was going to use 2 nuts and loctite as the nylocks are just that little bit too big and I would have to torque via the head, (probably no biggie)

Luck favours the well prepared

Smart Drives

Senior Member

Joined: 06/07/2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 115

Posted: 01:59am 23 Jan 2010

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First results at 48 volts are dissapointing, it is only managing 2-4 amps in 25-30km winds (100-200 watts).
Also startup is between 30 and 35km/h WAY TO HIGH.
Even though the startup speed has basically put this project to bed , i am still going to check results at 24 volts and 12v.

update:

At 48v it was spinning around 180rpm , i thought that was just the wind speed but after changing the system to 24v the turbine will now only spin about 60-80rpm in the same wind?
I am thinking that the motor has more resistance than the blades can overcome (2.5m dia.) 3m or 3.5m blade dia. might be the solution ?

Cam.Edited by Smart Drives 2010-01-24

All smart drive parts sold
Custom built turbine parts on
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GWatPE

Senior Member

Joined: 01/09/2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 2127

Posted: 03:23am 23 Jan 2010

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Hi Cam,

just out of interest, Is the rotor very hard to turn by hand, with the outputs shorted ? Like close to impossible.

Gordon.

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KarlJ

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Joined: 19/05/2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 1178

Posted: 04:25am 23 Jan 2010

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i see where this is going, some caps perhaps...

Luck favours the well prepared

Bryan1

Guru

Joined: 22/02/2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 1507

Posted: 05:23am 23 Jan 2010

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G'day Cam,
My 1.5kw conversion had a small bit of cogging but when I put the genny on my tower with my 3 metre blades set a breath of wind will start the blades. At 24 volt the charging kicks in around 90 rpm and I have seen my 20 amp gauge top out a few times when we had a gale come thru. My 1.5kw is just standard windings and in star as I didnt find the star point for hooking in delta. Something is badly amiss with your conversion if it is just plainly not performing.

Cheers Bryan

Smart Drives

Senior Member

Joined: 06/07/2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 115

Posted: 06:41am 23 Jan 2010

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I have hooked it up in star , but have the option for delta aswell. Its not impossible to turn ( its no where near what it feels like when you touch the wires together ) but you can feel the cogging , i think i will try bigger blades first before pulling it apart.
If the bigger blades dont work i think i will add more magnets to the ends of the rotor , as the shorter magnet i used stuffed up my decogging angle.

(Bryan) is each blade 3m or 3m dia ?

Cam.
Edited by Smart Drives 2010-01-24

All smart drive parts sold
Custom built turbine parts on
Multicam flatbed CNC Router

Bryan1

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Joined: 22/02/2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 1507

Posted: 06:51am 23 Jan 2010

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Smart Drives said

(Bryan) is each blade 3m or 3m dia ?

Cam.

Hi Cam,
I did mean 3m diameter, off memory I didn't do a thread in here on it but here is link to my 1.5kw conversion finished and flying.

Cheers Bryan

Smart Drives

Senior Member

Joined: 06/07/2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 115

Posted: 08:52am 23 Jan 2010

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Thanks, those blades look like they are about 75mm thick. what type of timber did you use ?

Cam.

All smart drive parts sold
Custom built turbine parts on
Multicam flatbed CNC Router

Bryan1

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Joined: 22/02/2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 1507

Posted: 04:55am 25 Jan 2010

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Smart Drives said Thanks, those blades look like they are about 75mm thick. what type of timber did you use ?

Cam.

75mm x 160mm off memory old oregon planks I got from a scrap yard for $8 each. I did do a thread on them ages ago where I had a knot in one plank. Go for search if you want to see how I carved them.

Cheers Bryan

Smart Drives

Senior Member

Joined: 06/07/2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 115

Posted: 02:36am 31 Jan 2010

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I have just received an email from frenergy , they now supply the magnets i used 25mm long aswell so i am thinking i will order them. This will fix my cogging problem because the full length of the slots i cut will now be filled with magnets. My 10 degree skew will actually be 10 degrees now since the magnets reach the ends of the rotor.

Cam.

All smart drive parts sold
Custom built turbine parts on
Multicam flatbed CNC Router

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