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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : uMite Project: Propeller Mini Computer
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Oldbitcollector Senior Member  Joined: 16/05/2014 Location: United StatesPosts: 172 |
Yes, the Propeller is a "virgin chip' in the sense that it gets it's information from the EEPROM on boot. Changing the main program, (Micromite Companion, 'umitecompanion.spin) effectively updates the Propeller side. All other sub-programs (or modes/styles as well call them) are loaded into the Propeller's memory from SD upon demand. I've got a ton of ideas for more mode options and add-on programs, but since we are shipping next week to several here, it's time to freeze the options for a couple weeks so we can complete the documentation, (it's in draft format now), write some more demo programs, and make sure that every command is working correctly in the current release. Once that's done. (By the time any of you here receive your kits) I'll start a 'dev' folder in the project and start introducing some of the new ideas and additional commands that are still on my list. I'm resisting the temptation to add another 80x30 mode with SIDcog for now, even though that idea does look like 'low hanging fruit', so we can make sure everyone's experience with MMC is a positive one. Another temping toy this week is a .MOD player that works on the Propeller. (Can't promise I might not play with that one sooner.) One of the problems we had with the original Pocket Mini Computer project was that because it's BASIC and programming space occupied the same Propeller chip, we reached a limit what what we could do. The fun part of this project is that because we've moved the BASIC and programming to the Micromite, the Propeller is free to do all kinds of interesting objects. For example, there is an AY sound emulation, SIDcog emulation, various VGA objects, speech object, and TV objects which could be easy incorporated into this project by simply creating another 'mode'. I'll also be shooting a Kickerstarter video next Saturday. I'm going to attempt to raise the funds to pay for a large block of time away from my day job to create enhanced documentation, many more programming examples, and add-on programs. I've got some ideas for also introducing both computing history and microcontroller education into the materials. If Kickerstart is a go, then the materials will go faster, if not we'll still be heading that direction, just at a slower pace. So many interesting and fun things to do... So little time. :) BTW, you guys are also welcome to our forums and chat night as well. There's a lot of Micromite discussion these days for some reason. :) Jeff My Propeller/Micromite mini-computer project. |
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| WhiteWizzard Guru  Joined: 05/04/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2932 |
Thanks for the 'update' - very useful. Do post details about your Kickstarter when appropriate - hopefully you will have several backers from the BSF 
WW |
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Grogster Admin Group  Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9588 |
I await my MMC with anticipation. I see you mention on the website, that you already have accommodated the 170 version of the uM. Did/do you have to do much to incorporate that, or is it nothing more then a chip-swap as the 170 uM provides the extra memory, so you really don't have to touch anything on the propeller side of things? I'd be interested in donating to the Kickstarter idea, as I am sure, would many others both from the Propeller forums, and TBS members here. That is what is great about Kickstarter - people from all over the world can put in ten or twenty bucks or whatever, and it becomes reasonably easy to raise the funds over more conventional local methods. Good luck, and as WW says - keep us posted on that. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| micronut Newbie  Joined: 03/09/2014 Location: United StatesPosts: 37 |
Thank you all for the warm welcome. @ Grogster there are a couple of us on OBC's forum that have ordered some blank 170s to burn version D on. I ordered 3. It should be a drop in replacement for the 150. I'll let you know my results in 2 weeks since I'll be on vacation next week. Like OBC said there are a lot of interesting ideas floating around for the MMC. Some of the ones I am thinking of doing are: 1. See if I can get the Propeller code to handle SD cards larger than 2GB. There is code out there for that but the code the MMC uses is more stable and optimized so I may have to look at the other code and see what needs changing in the MMC code 2. OBC has a concern about PS2 keyboards becoming scarce so I was thinking of looking at the 270 chip and the Maximite code and figure out how to add a USB keyboard to the Micromite if Geoff approves of it. 3. Take the Maximite Pacman program and port it over to the MMC. 4. Create a TV/Sid mode. I have a portable 7" TV and with my laptop it makes developing anywhere easy. There is plenty of code to handle various Computer TV formats, Most are NTSC and PAL and all you need is 3 resistors and a RCA phono plug to get the TV output to work on the Propeller. I'm thinking big here. I'll be impressed with myself if I get 2 or more things on this list done. BTW the reference I gave does look like they accidentally replaced the Ohm symbol with W. I have an earlier revision schematic that doesn't have the mistake. I doubt that will be corrected though since the board for that schematic is obsolete. |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9588 |
Hi micronut. 
IMHO, 2GB is plenty for a system of this type. I understand that the MaxiMite can access cards up to about 32GB and FAT32, but that is not really needed for such a platform. I can see why the likes of Raspberry Pi would need big capacities, so it can have enough room for a GUI-OS and application data etc, but for the likes of the systems we are talking about here, 2GB is actually a hell of a lot of space! Again - MHO - others may well disagree and give reasons, just my 2c. So, with the above in mind, one needs to ask: "Is providing >2GB SD card support, something that lots of people would use?" All my Atari disks were either 92KB single-sided single-density, and most of those were games, and pretty good games most of them, and they all fit in 92K! There were also 1040 sector "Enhanced" density at 133KB a disk or side, and XF551 format true double-sided, double-density, but even these were only 368KB! Wee computers only need a wee bit of disk space. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| WhiteWizzard Guru Joined: 05/04/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2932 |
@Grogster I can confirm that the MX170 'memory upgrade' is achieved by simply updating the MicroMite - nothing to do on the Prop side. The start-up message is hard-coded so will still display '22K FREE' but Jeff knows this. If you type 'Memory' you will see the correct MX170 memory availability. I have sent out several 4.5D MX170's to MMC owners (including Jeff) so they can all see how easy it is to 'boost' the MicroMite. I see the ability to access more than 2GB a useful feature personally. The reason being - the SD card isn't just for storing .BAS files; it also stores FONT files, SPRITE files, BIN (prop) files, and the all important MODE files (that give different resolutions and other future features). A more useful feature from MicroNut's list is the USB keyboard feature. I am working on a plug-in adaptor that will allow any USB keyboard (wired OR wireless) to plug into the MMC (and also the MaxiMite). Got parts turning up tomorrow (Tuesday) but not a lot of time this week to work on it 
WW |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9588 |
Even with all of those that you listed, would you be approaching anywhere near 2GB? I would be surprised if you even got close to 1GB..... Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| WhiteWizzard Guru Joined: 05/04/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2932 |
Grogs - you are correct - just checked my 64MB SD card and I am 23MB used. There are some sound files that seem to be the biggest file sizes but I reckon you are correct in that 2GB is big enough. 
@micronut: Is there any future feature (or current) that you see a user needing more than a 2GB card? Has Jeff got something in the development pipeline that warrants 2GB+? WW edit: is there some 'talk' of voice?? |
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| Oldbitcollector Senior Member Joined: 16/05/2014 Location: United StatesPosts: 172 |
No, I can't see us actually using anything near 2GB anytime soon. That being said, a couple of us are looking into adding support for card larger than 2GB simply because we expect that 2GB cards may become hard to source in the future. This isn't a problem now, but we are planning ahead to make sure our bases are covered. Currently the DMP (converted SID file collection) takes up 204 megabytes if you were to copy the entire DMP folder to your SD card for SIDPLAYR.BIN. It's likely that the addition of a MOD player (a primitive version was just released on the Parallax forums) might add a couple hundred more megabytes of files to the typical SD card, but certainly a collection of .BIN, .BAS, sprites and tiles aren't going to come close to filling a card. Shall I be brave here and say "2GB is all you'll ever need"? :) :) Jeff My Propeller/Micromite mini-computer project. |
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| micronut Newbie Joined: 03/09/2014 Location: United StatesPosts: 37 |
Jeff explained the 2GB issue perfectly. It isn't a big issue but before you know it they'll be hard to get. Just try to get a 16MB SD card I'll probably put that one on the back burner for now.
WhiteWizzard I'll wait to see what you come up with for the USB keyboard. You guys are taking my fun away , It's good to see a big interest here.
WhiteWizzard, Chip Gracey, the creator of the Propeller Chip wrote a program that did phonetic sounds with the Propeller. Here is a link to the thread in the Parallax forum that describes it Propeller Voice Synthesis. Also here is a link to another program that uses the code Voice Synthesis. I've also attached the Singing Seven Demo that uses it as Seven.bin. Note this has no video and I haven't tested it on the MMC but it should work 2014-09-08_230220_Seven.zip . That could be a basis for a talking mode. |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9588 |
Ha, ha, ha, ha - "640K ought to be enough for anyone."  (although, there is evidence that Bill Gates never actually said that, but true or not, it is a saying that has gone down in computer history!)
I appreciate your looking to the future, and would have to agree that 2GB SD cards are starting to get harder to find - STARTING to get - they are still very easy to find as of now...... I have at least ten of them(all new) - SanDisk brand. Pretty useless for anything these days. Perhaps I am one of the last to have some in stock!!!  Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| WhiteWizzard Guru Joined: 05/04/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2932 |
Hey, forget the SD cards; have any of you tried getting a MX150 or MX170 these days!!  |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9588 |
I know there is a shortage of 150's, but I thought there were plenty of 170's about? Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| micronut Newbie Joined: 03/09/2014 Location: United StatesPosts: 37 |
Grogster, they are difficult to find. Microchip shows they won't have any to ship until Nov 3! I found Digi-Key Australia has 81 (119) yesterday. I bought 3 myself. They are going fast. There are 418 of the non 50I type as well. I wonder what is the difference is between the two. The 50Is are more expensive as well. |
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| Oldbitcollector Senior Member Joined: 16/05/2014 Location: United StatesPosts: 172 |
I was going to keep this a secret. Someone even email me this morning.. Instead of the MX150's on the orders going out this week, we'll be installing MX170's in your orders. I was able to secure a batch of them from Digikey this morning, so it might cost be an extra day before I ship, but I suspect that those of you who are waiting won't mind for the extra memory. :) Guess it's time to update our "hard-coded" 22k message at boot up. So like the guys in our forums said, "Wow! The new kids are getting 170's!! Cool! " Jeff My Propeller/Micromite mini-computer project. |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9588 |
I have fifteen 150's(50I's) in stock, if anyone is desperate.... The 50I means the chip is guaranteed to run up to 50MHz, the non-50I marked ones are not guaranteed to run up to 50MHz - they have a rating of 40MHz. I am not that likely to use them anytime soon, so if someone wants them more then me, flick me a PM. These are the standard skinny-DIL package, not SMD. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| Oldbitcollector Senior Member Joined: 16/05/2014 Location: United StatesPosts: 172 |
I've been busy today stuff kits into envelopes to get them into the mailbox! Several kits are going out right now! A couple of you who live in Australia have provided me with PO BOX which US INTERNATIONAL mail chokes on, so I've emailed you. In the meantime, I've also been working on an Instructable for those who already have a Propeller Board on their shelves and would like to create their own "home-brew" version of the Micromite Companion Minicomputer. http://www.instructables.com/id/Building-your-own-Micromite- Companion-Minicomputer/ I'd appeciate any thoughts or comments on this Instructable. Jeff My Propeller/Micromite mini-computer project. |
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| WhiteWizzard Guru Joined: 05/04/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2932 |
Looks really good Jeff- great Instructable
Working link here |
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| Oldbitcollector Senior Member Joined: 16/05/2014 Location: United StatesPosts: 172 |
Just a couple more videos on the stuff we are doing with the Project. Updated Sprite Editor I was working on this one then started testing it with the Beta of the MKII. The speed of the Beta chip was very noticeable, given the IF statements I used initially to read the keys. 3 Voice SID controlled from MMBASIC My Propeller/Micromite mini-computer project. |
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| Oldbitcollector Senior Member Joined: 16/05/2014 Location: United StatesPosts: 172 |
A new video for our Sprite, Tile, and now Screen editor. Big update to Graphics Editor and MODE 4. Given good resource tools like this, MMBASIC on the Micromite is amazingly powerful for pushing these resources. The new Beta MKII code doubly so. My Propeller/Micromite mini-computer project. |
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