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Frank N. Furter
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Posted: 08:21pm 15 Nov 2025

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twofingers said Connect a microphone to the PC, start a recording program (in my case it would be Cooledit 2000), and ring each bell individually with a fixed object (a mallet) corresponding to the numbered bell – with short pauses in between. Check if the signal level is high enough. Then save everything as an MP3 file. Compress it as a ZIP archive and upload it here.

I'm a little frustrated at the moment. :-( I haven't been able to get the microphone to work under f***ing Win10. It's enabled in the security settings, but it just doesn't work...
The internal microphone works on another small Win10 notebook, but it doesn't have an external microphone connection and the internal microphone is useless...

Unfortunately, I don't know anything about musical notation.

I recorded the highest and lowest bells again with a different recorder, but I think it's just as useless:
REC000.zip

I think I'll try Volhout's suggestion next and try to generate the frequencies of Jim with the Picomite and try to figure out the bell tones that way.

@phil99:
Actually, I'm reluctant to continue soldering on the glockenspiel. It's still working at the moment, and it would be nice if it stayed that way. Once I've found replacements for the sound elements, I'll try them out with different timings.

Frank

twofingers

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Posted: 09:17pm 15 Nov 2025

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Hi Frank,

that's a real shame. I can't even play the program under Windows 7:

WAV File: rec024.wav
Audio Format: 17 Channels: 1 Sample Rate: 8000Hz
Bits Per Sample: 4 Data Bytes: 28672
Unsupported audio format (not PCM integer): 17

4 Bits per Sample?

And even Pico fails with this format. Cooledit 200 also crashes when trying to load the file. Doesn't anyone around you have a smartphone?

And just two tones wouldn't help us anyway.
Kind regards
Michael

PS:
I could relatively easily write a universal bell tone program, but I don't know when I'll get around. It's really just about the UI.

causality ≠ correlation ≠ coincidence

phil99

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Posted: 09:19pm 15 Nov 2025

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Unfortunately they contain very few frequencies above the noise level, and none of them match the previous recordings.
The signal level is just too low.

Does your recording software have any way to increase the gain?
If not try other software.

REC020.WAV has just one usable peak at 2694Hz
REC024.WAV has just two usable peaks at 3262Hz and 1065Hz
.
Edited 2025-11-16 07:34 by phil99

Frank N. Furter
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Posted: 09:28pm 15 Nov 2025

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So, I played around with the frequencies of TassyJim and used the online tone generator from here:

https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/

When I struck the bells manually, I could hear resonance at these frequencies:

F7 2793,83
D#7 2489,02
C7 2093
B6 1975,53
A#6 1864,66
A6 1760
G6 1567,98
F#6 1479,98
F6 1396,91
E6 1318,51
D#6 1244,51
C6 1046,50

I believe that with these frequencies we are not very far from the actual bells.
I'll try that out with my player now.

Frank

twofingers

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Posted: 09:46pm 15 Nov 2025

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@Frank:
Did you ring the bells at the same time?
I found the frequencies (File: REC024.wav) 1056 Hz (C6) and 3193 Hz (G7).
I don't know if that will help.

EDIT:
I saw Phil's post. Did you save each tone in a separate file?
I only tried the larger one (rec024), assuming it would have a better chance of being high quality.
Edited 2025-11-16 07:53 by twofingers

causality ≠ correlation ≠ coincidence

phil99

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Posted: 09:54pm 15 Nov 2025

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Ran through REC024.WAV again and got peaks at 3194Hz and 1065Hz

TassyJim

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Posted: 10:00pm 15 Nov 2025

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REC020.WAV is 2695 Hz

I found both recordings much cleaner than the last ones.

Similar recording of the other bells will help

Jim

VK7JH
MMedit

phil99

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Posted: 10:04pm 15 Nov 2025

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Quote REC024.WAV again and got peaks at 3194Hz and 1065Hz

1065 x 3 = 3195 so 3194Hz is just a harmonic and can be ignored.

So the highest bell is 2695 and the lowest is 1065. So the notes are E7 and C6 as E7/C6 = 2695/1065.
.
Edited 2025-11-16 08:19 by phil99

twofingers

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Posted: 11:05pm 15 Nov 2025

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Frank N. Furter said So, I played around with the frequencies of TassyJim and used the online tone generator from here:

https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/

...

I believe that with these frequencies we are not very far from the actual bells.
I'll try that out with my player now.

Frank

I agree with you, but have you considered downloading Glocke01.zip?
https://www.thebackshed.com/forum/ViewTopic.php?TID=18406&P=3#246806

They were generated with the PicoMite and then recorded with a smartphone.
The tones match your table quite well.

WAV file written: B:#gong1.wav
Duration: 3 s
Frequency: 1045 Hz
Sample rate: 16000 Hz
SAMPLES: 48000

SPN FREQ
C6 1046.50
C#6 1108.73
D6 1174.66
D#6 1244.51
E6 1318.51
F6 1396.91
F#6 1479.98
G6 1567.98
G#6 1661.22
A6 1760.00
A#6 1864.65
B6 1975.53
C7 2093.00
C#7 2217.46
D7 2349.32
D#7 2489.02
E7 2637.02
F7 2793.83

This thread is already very confusing.

Edited 2025-11-16 09:43 by twofingers

causality ≠ correlation ≠ coincidence

phil99

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Posted: 02:50am 16 Nov 2025

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Using the low (1065Hz) and high (2695Hz) bells from the last recordings the complete scales are:-

> low.bell=1065 : high.bell=1069.5115 'starting value for high.bell to reach 2695Hz
>
> for n=0 to 16:?low.bell,high.bell :low.bell=low.bell* 2^(1/12):high.bell=high.bell* 2^(1/12):next
1065 1069.5115 C6 1060 <--from Jim's 1058 <--REC004.WAV revised
1128.328195 1133.107963 earlier list
1195.422081 1200.486069 D6 1200 1212
1266.505577 1271.870685
1341.815918 1347.500052 E6 1350 1341
1421.604445 1427.626575 F6 1400 1407
1506.137444 1512.517668 F#6 1500 1480
1595.697037 1602.456649 G6 1600 1599
1690.58212 1697.74368
1791.109364 1798.696773 A7 1800 1803
1897.61427 1905.652849 A#7 1900 1898
2010.452286 2018.968864 B7 2020 1995 <--This bell is down in the
2130 2139.023 C7 2130 2127 noise so not accurate
2256.656391 2266.215926 in REC02.WAV = 2007Hz
2390.844163 2400.972138 D7 2400 2377
2533.011155 2543.741371
2683.631836 2695.000104 E7 2750 2678
>

So the 12 bells don't cover the full 17 notes in the range and are not exactly tuned so as Jim said it would be better to get recordings of the remainder.

I have redone REC004.WAV and added the revised values to the list above.
Edited 2025-11-16 14:35 by phil99

Frank N. Furter
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Posted: 07:04pm 16 Nov 2025

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twofingers said Did you ring the bells at the same time?

No, one bell after another.

twofingers said I agree with you, but have you considered downloading Glocke01.zip?

Yes, but there are more notes in your table than I have bells...

TassyJim said I found both recordings much cleaner than the last ones.

Similar recording of the other bells will help

Here, I rang the bells by hand with a clapper.

I have now entered the frequencies I mentioned above into my program. It sounds better, but it's still not quite right. I have attached the program here. The path for the .dat file needs to be adjusted.

play03.bas.zip

phil99 said So the 12 bells don't cover the full 17 notes in the range and are not exactly tuned so as Jim said it would be better to get recordings of the remainder.

I have to agree with you there! I really need to find a way to record the bells better. I'll try out your 12 frequencies. Thank you!

Frank
Edited 2025-11-17 05:07 by Frank N. Furter

TassyJim

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Posted: 07:42pm 16 Nov 2025

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The more I read about bells, the more I realise that bell ringing is a dark art.
Bells don't bear any resemblance to 'normal' tones.

Jim

VK7JH
MMedit

phil99

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Posted: 04:52am 17 Nov 2025

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Hi Frank
To make it easier to try different sets of tones here is a condensed version of your program.

'Frank's chime tester program
Option EXPLICIT
Print
Print "PLAY MUSIC"
Open "music.dat" For Input As #1

Dim integer BellNote, Zaehler, FreqZaehler
Dim integer Freq(4), track, note

' Add new tone sets here. Un-comment the one you wish to try

'Dim integer tone(11)=(2695,2401,2139,2019,1906,1799,1602,1513,1428,1348,1200,1070)
Dim integer tone(11)=(2684,2391,2130,2010,1898,1791,1596,1506,1422,1342,1195,1065)
'Dim integer tone(11)=(2750,2400,2130,2020,1900,1800,1600,1500,1400,1350,1200,1060)
'Dim integer tone(11)=(2678,2377,2127,2007,1898,1803,1599,1480,1407,1341,1212,1058)

Dim float BellTime
Dim scale$(11)=("E7","D7","C7","B7","A#7","A7","G6","F#6","F6","E6","D6","C6")

Do
Input #1, BellTime, BellNote 'get the data
If BellTime > 2000 Then Inc track
Print
Print "BellTime: ";BellTime;" Bellnote: ";Bellnote, "Track: ";track
Pause BellTime
FreqZaehler=1

For note=0 To 11
If (BellNote >> note) And 1 Then
   Freq(FreqZaehler) = tone(note)
   Print scale$(note)
   Inc FreqZaehler
EndIf
Next

If BellNote = 0 Then
   Play STOP
Else
   For Zaehler = 1 To (FreqZaehler-1)
   Print "Freqzaehler: ";Zaehler;" Freq: ";Freq(Zaehler)
   Play SOUND Zaehler,B,S,Freq(Zaehler)
   Next Zaehler
EndIf

Loop Until Eof(#1)

Close #1
Print "Ende"
End

Edited 2025-11-17 15:04 by phil99

Mixtel90

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Posted: 08:47am 17 Nov 2025

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There's bells and bells, Jim. :)
Playing a recognizable tune on bells is nothing like change ringing, which has its own rules entirely, based on how long it takes a bell to swing at it's pendulum frequency rather than the frequency of its note...

Mick

Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini
Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs

Frank N. Furter
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Posted: 06:43pm 17 Nov 2025

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phil99 said Hi Frank
To make it easier to try different sets of tones here is a condensed version of your program.

Thank you very much! That's a great addition!

Frank

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