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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : Bloody Windows 10....(i’m done with it)
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KeepIS Guru  Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1882 |
My experience has been almost the same, I do run one antivirus app - never Norton - 4 desktop machines and a number of mini-PC's and I've never had a problem with updates. But crappy laptops with poor drivers and s.l.o.w HD drives are another thing altogether, some are really bad - at everything - Most of the update hangs I have had to fix come back to drivers and hardware, at least that is what I have found over 30+ years of servicing these things. I disable all needless writes on all machines in a few seconds. I have a 9 year old SSD running all day almost every day for programming and a test Win 10 PC with a 15 year old HDD also running daily and running Win 10 since it was first released. I simply don't have an issue with the exception of having to turn off MS spy settings after a major update and disable a few services. Either some get lucky and always accidental download stable updates - or - other thing are coming into play and it's not all down to Win 10. BTW I have never lost data from a power fail, or a hang / forced reboot cycle which is usually induced when low level programming or by installing other poorly written applications or drivers. NANO Inverter: Full download - Only Hex Ver 8.1Ks |
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| Alastair Senior Member  Joined: 03/04/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 161 |
I wonder what Bill thinks about Microsoft now that he is busy with his foundation and just lets the money roll in without being involved? Years ago I was involved in developing s/w for use in medicine. We eventually switched from running on Sun Sparc stations to windows when high end PCs had enough grunt to run our stuff. We mandated XP and put in locks so it would not run on later versions when they happened. We packed it in about 10 years ago when the market became too hot and the big American companies took over our field. The problems with versions, viruses, hackers etc were only just starting when we stopped. This thread has made me think about what we would do if we were still in business. I suspect we would have gone to locked systems. Ie Fixed version, running only our s/w on an isolated network. Many tests that would shut things down if people fiddled and changed things. I am glad I am not still in business. @Herry We used VB to develop the user interface and file handling for our s/w. It was highly productive and pretty robust. We did use low level modules for the clever stuff and speed intensive bits but by the end the h/w was so good we didn't really need to bother. I recently decided to write some s/w for home purposes and realised that I no longer had VB6 that I could easily install on my main system. After looking around I found PureBasic and am now using it quite happily. It has a lot of similarities to VB and a few differences that take getting used to. It seems to do everything I need and a hell of a lot more. Cheers, Alastair |
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| Boppa Guru Joined: 08/11/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 814 |
Oh I have no doubt that many people have no issues, the problem is the many people who are having issues! The Dell is hardly a crappy laptop, its a top of the line expensive machine (way in excess of what he requires, and he's not happy with the big chain store that talked him into the upgrade in the first place then abandoned him after the first windows rebuild, then a local shop charged him over $200 for another rebuild, I dont have the heart to charge him again, so I'm doing it for neighbourly peace and a couple of beers at a bbq one weekend lol Doesnt explain the case I mentioned earlier either- two identical machines (lenovos) bought at same time, identical specs, apparently identical machines, in the same house- one is flawless, never been touched since bought, the other is like the neighbours machine, on its third or fourth rebuild after multiple crashes during updates- why????? |
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Grogster Admin Group  Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9610 |
Here you go, Guys - The Bates 4000...... Gill Bates scetch from The Onion movie - CONTAINS OFFENSIVE LANGUAGE It's kinda exactly how the system works!!!! Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| Boppa Guru Joined: 08/11/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 814 |
I'd show that to my neighbour, but I doubt he'd see the humour in it... (it pretty much sums up his buying experience then add the win 10 debarcle on top- no as the old Queen would say "we are NOT amused") |
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| KeepIS Guru Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1882 |
Hi Boppa, I'm certainly not making light of problems people have with Win10 - Most of the problems I fix are from users doing stupid things. Most people I deal with, even elderly, want to spend all day on the web and try every program they think might be fun or interesting, and press on every link that says there is problem detected press to fix now - again this is a very (very) basic example of some users I deal with. It seems that every time Windows is mentioned and someone posts that they may have a good experience, then the post is pulled apart and the poster is nailed to the hate cross of window from a reply by the typical OS police. And NO Boppa, you have NOT done that to my post, this was just a dig at those who do and make personal comments. I know people are having real issues with Win 10. Part of the problem is that windows is trying to do so many things and can not be stripped down to the users narrower needs, thereby putting less strain on memory use, HDD access and the hardware in general (less drivers and services etc) There is really no room in these posts to go into hardware details, and a relatively short reply like this always comes across as though the writer does not understand the problems of others, or indeed the shortcomings of Win10. In most forums relating to Windows it usually turns into a personal attack on any one who dares to suggest that windows, of any version let alone Win10, is running fine for them and horror of horrors, might even be a productive tool for them. A post like this is likely to create a personal attack, which is a real shame when everything else on this great Microcontroller forum is so helpful and friendly. NANO Inverter: Full download - Only Hex Ver 8.1Ks |
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Herry Senior Member Joined: 31/05/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 261 |
For me, my hatred of W10 is based on my concept of my computer as a productive tool. I actually like playing with Windows and other computer problems, but first thing in the morning I want to switch on my computer and immediately *work*, read my emails, write my contracted for papers and do my banking. I do not have time then to fiddle with updates and hung up machines! Senior?! Whatever it says, I'm a complete and utter beginner... |
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| KeepIS Guru Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1882 |
Hi Herry, totally agree and understand that, I do that every morning too, it's just that in my case I never have that problem with updates. It's annoying how the more they shift Windows to require a fast web connection, the more frustrating it become for those that don't have unlimited data or have a slow connection- think FTTN and that's just for a start. There are workarounds for the update issue but I totally agree that one should not have to go to that trouble. NANO Inverter: Full download - Only Hex Ver 8.1Ks |
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| Paul_L Guru Joined: 03/03/2016 Location: United StatesPosts: 769 |
I've got a machine here that did just what you want back in 1981 ... a Radio Shack Model III with a massive 10 MB HDD running Micro Systems Software's DOS PLUS OS with its integrated BASIC interpreter. It just worked and still does! Paul in NY |
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TassyJim Guru Joined: 07/08/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 6283 |
If you want a bit of Linux with your Windows, Windows 10 can be configured to run Ubuntu command line  I don't use it often but running the occasional bash script is handy. Jim Not sure why the PNG image is so hard to read... VK7JH MMedit |
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| Boppa Guru Joined: 08/11/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 814 |
A lot of the issues is that the NBN is such a hodgepodge, the people that already had fast net access, still have it, but NBNs answer to anyone else is push them onto 4g or sat Problem with that is the sheer cost- where I am building my new place, its telstra or nothing (optus have been promising to be there 'soon' since 2012, and havent even looked at a tower site yet) with data plans on 4g being around $10 a gig, updates in the 10's (if not 100's) of gigs on a monthly basis just arent feasible The only options aree for people who are forced onto 4g to get plan rates at the same level as home line users (currently I am on $70 a month unlimited d/l) or to at least make the ms updates unmetered (not impossible for telstra to do, they just need to be made to do it)- or to actually do what was intended originally and drag the comms system out of the 1950's countrywide... for dogs sake, many rural lines are still twin fencing wire lines on porcelain insulators on poles! With this kind of infrastructure, win10 is just not feasible as an OS for many rural people |
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| Herry Senior Member Joined: 31/05/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 261 |
Yes, I had one too and it did, and I wrote programs on it and sold them! I also had a model I and a Model II and a model 16, worked with all of them, wrote programs on them and sold them! See I've got the T shirt, I feel... I even saved my first commercial programs to cassette tape and sold those too! Senior?! Whatever it says, I'm a complete and utter beginner... |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9610 |
@ KeepIS - I'm curious now. Your W10 runs OK, and you don't appear to have any issues with updates. So do they just work fine for you? The update process I mean. Have you never had the updates freeze at xx% and never move from there? Have you never had the machine do the same thing on a reboot, and stick at xx% installing updates, and never give you the desktop ever again? It's interesting to me, that some people don't seem to have any of these problems, and yet others do. Even people on brand new machines that SHOULD be 100% W10 compatible, seem to go nuts too - there does not seem to be any predictable pattern to if you are gonna get stuck or not. It's a strange system, is our W10..... Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| Herry Senior Member Joined: 31/05/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 261 |
I think that poster said he never lost data with a power cut, so I wonder... Senior?! Whatever it says, I'm a complete and utter beginner... |
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| KeepIS Guru Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1882 |
Grogster and Herry, that is correct on both counts, this only applies to my home built PCs, not some of the junk laptops (sub $700 a few years back) and a few crap mini PCs, found a few that have never given a problem but HDD access is soooooo slow that it takes a day to install a major windows revision, same revision on my main PC takes about 70 minutes some faster - lot of that depends on net speed at the time. Normal security updates are from 1 to 5 minutes depending on how many. I said that it's hard to fully discuss hardware issues on a forum post and I really mean it because it's a very complex subject with driver and hardware interactions, some will disagree, but over the years and countless days / weeks wasted trying to track down why something works for some people and not others for the same hardware, you realise that it's not as simple as it first seems. Windows can cause problems with certain hardware and the Driver loading sequence. Many people loose data or end up with a non booting system after a power fail or a hard reset is carried out, but neither of these things cause a loss of data for some other users, Why? MB hardware, firmware and drive interface, type of drive, Win settings for write caching, how fast the drive responds to a sudden supply fail in combination with drive hardware and firmware. I see the scepticism with no data loss, but it is what it is. I always build my own PCs and select the individual components that I "hopefully" can trust to work. My two main PC's are around 7 years old and still fast enough for me, my test bed PC is coming up to 14 years, a bit slow but mainly due to the old HDD's. Any frustration I have had has always come back to either hardware or crappy drivers that support it, some I have just given up on and installed a different brand of hardware and better driver support. That's why I don't own a laptop, but I understand that lots of owners have no option but to use one. Apology for rambling on. NANO Inverter: Full download - Only Hex Ver 8.1Ks |
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| Paul_L Guru Joined: 03/03/2016 Location: United StatesPosts: 769 |
Claudia, one of my nieces, was an attorney in the legal department at DEC in Maynard. In 1973 she introduced me to Dave Cutler and then quickly left when we switched to geek speak. Dave wanted to follow my methodology for resolving far jumps when I wrote the IBM 1401 assembler at Cornell in 1956. We chatted for several hours. I was unaware that he had moved to Microsoft and worked his way up to the rank of Senior Technical Fellow. There aren't very many Fellows and they tend to tell Vice-Presidents what to do at both Microsoft and IBM. I knew several other people at DEC who moved to Apple after the bankruptcy and the Apple OS improved marketedly soon thereafter. I suspect that a lot of DEC's VMS got into both Windows and Apple's OS. Paul in NY |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9610 |
@ KeepIS - Interesting. You're not rambling on.  All opinions are useful to have.Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| Herry Senior Member Joined: 31/05/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 261 |
Paul in NY: Fascinating! We have some distinguished people here on this forum! Senior?! Whatever it says, I'm a complete and utter beginner... |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 4044 |
RSX-11M, VMS, Windows NT, XP, ... Dave Cutler John |
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| Boppa Guru Joined: 08/11/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 814 |
KeepIS, I havent had that many issues with my own gear either, its others that cause the problems (problem is they also bring in the $$$, so its just grin and bear it) I'd still love to know how and why two identical systems should be so different, both same specs, bought same time, yet so different in response to updates next time the bad one fails after an update, (notice the when, not if... I am that certain it will happen) I will want to pull both machines down and see what I can find, if there is some hardware difference maybe?? I am lucky in that all the ones I have done so far, the owners are aware its not me causing the failures, its microsoft- I make a point of telling them that as soon as it becomes apparent its another one of 'those' machines and that anything I do to fix the machine could be undone at the next update Unfortunately, they have made it so much of a drama to disable things that for the average user, its just too much hassle to try and pick and choose the updates they need, versus they ones that are there just to reenable all the spyware garbage (which also accounts for a lot of data usage, in my tests disabling the various options cut between 3 and 10gb a month- thats a lot of dollars on some peoples network plans I have actually converted several to ubuntu, for someone that just does emails and surfs the net, it is just as good as win10 and I can just plug in a usb for them to try it out, goes back to win10 just by unplugging the usb stick (I mostly use ubuntu as its probably the most stable and full featured distros imho, and very easy for windows users to get a handle on for basic net and office stuff, but I'm not welded to it by any means, mint is also quite nice and I have played with tiny as well for the media server in the lounge) |
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