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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : new microchip unix module
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| isochronic Guru  Joined: 21/01/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 689 |
Interesting microchip linux module might retrofit a few pcbs...  |
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vegipete Guru Joined: 29/01/2013 Location: CanadaPosts: 1132 |
Well, you read some details about the SAMA5D225C-D1M System in Package and think WOW, but then you realize it's a BGA so hand soldering is not an option... Visit Vegipete's *Mite Library for cool programs. |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 4044 |
Just wondering why it is better than any of the many things that have been available for some years? Such as RPi. Such as LinkIt Smart 7688 (MediaTek 7688). It's not that it's useless or bad but in what ways is it novel or cheap or ... well, why might lots of people choose it rather than the existing ones? It looks late to the market and quite expensive for what you get. John |
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MicroBlocks Guru Joined: 12/05/2012 Location: ThailandPosts: 2209 |
Microchip is a very reliable source of components. As lots of products are made with their components offering something that competes with others that are already available will still work for that reason only. Pioneering something new like the RPi is often not a good strategy for a large company. Once a product like that is more common and your customers starts inquering for similar products then it is time to jump on the train. Microblocks. Build with logic. |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 4044 |
It will be interesting to see if it is adopted widely and available on multiple boards from other than Mchp, competitively priced. John |
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| Boppa Guru Joined: 08/11/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 814 |
Company I worked for used their boards for industrial control and monitoring, they arent really aimed at the home consumers, these are high quality industrial boards for the most part, not wanting to be novel or cheap- but reliable and long term support (they still have 8 bit systems available for people who need them for existing equipment) Pi is probably the prime example that exists atm of exactly what industrial clients dont want!- multiple platforms, of varying grades of reliability (orange pi anyone??? even at the price not worth it imho), multiple versions with differing footprints and layouts |
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Azure Guru Joined: 09/11/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 446 |
There are a lot of Industrial Embedded System Vendors out there for many different processor platforms. As Boppa said they are not intended for the home user. They are core system modules that provide a platform for a high end, reliable long term availability industrial embedded system. It is used by a lot of manufacturers these days to stop them having to develop and then also have to support a complete system design, which is getting harder given bus clocking speeds to external high speed memory, EMC compliance, etc. They use these modules as a stable core and can design their required platform around that. They then can support that and if they come across issues with the core they can call on the module manufacturer for assistance. Much lower cost and faster lead time to develop and support niche and specialised products. |
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| Boppa Guru Joined: 08/11/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 814 |
Exactly- the boards we were using were functionally equivalent to what I was using back in 2000 as far as processing power etc, and cost just under $500us each! But they were industrial grade, capable of extended time between mean failure compared to pc style motherboards and had a range of other advantages that were necessary in the field (ie capable of operating in higher temps, single rail voltage input, lower susceptibility to external interference and in our case could be run without external venting or forced air cooling due to explosives requirements) Anyone not in the field would be wondering why what is essentially a near 20 year old computer in processing power would cost so much, but it was nore the other features that were important- a $30 pi would be as powerful if not more so, but they simply wouldnt meet the other requirements for that particular job |
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| Azure Guru Joined: 09/11/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 446 |
I would be very surprised if any of the home brew, IOT and processor boards today meet Australian or International EMI requirements that are required for products selling commercially. Then there are all of the other standards to comply with for Environmental, Reliability, Quality Control, Production Tracking, Hazardous Environments (Explosive/Corrosive/Low-High Temp...), Failover, Operator Safety, Electrical Compliance... and the list goes on. The joys of designing products for commercial use and specialised environments be they Mass Production, Low Volume or BTO products. But on the hobbyist side it is fun to put something together cheaply and simply that works. |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 4044 |
That reads as if you don't realise the Raspberry Pi and Orange Pi are unrelated (except that the latter has borrowed part of the name). People routinely abuse the cpu in the orange pi (overclock, fail to fit heat sink etc) and in any case it's not designed or built anything like the RPi. John |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 4044 |
For Industrial spec you just buy things such as the ones from Olimex (e.g. A20-OLinuXino-MICRO-e4GB-IND) or any of the various others you can find via a web search. E.g. the RPi Compute Module 3 states it is intended for industrial applications. It should be obvious that cheap boards (such as the orange pi) from the likes of aliexpress are unlikely to be industrial spec. Or indeed fit for much other than a bit of experimentation. They are basically learn-and-discard. John |
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| Boppa Guru Joined: 08/11/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 814 |
I was mentioning the two most common micro computer boards being commonly used (and yes I do know they are not the same, but both are pretty much aimed at the same market ) I actually have three oranges (of which 2 failed exactly because they overheated) and at least 5 raspberry, so I am well aware of their differences thank you, I also have a lot of experience with industrial use of nano computers, with over 8 years making and repairing them in conditions that a raspberry wouldnt even get a look at, in explosives conditions that requires a LOT of paperwork before a single unit is even allowed in the door (we had them installed in anfo manufacturing plants, petrol and oil bulk storage and in the iron and coal mining industries)- one I have worked on involved troubleshooting an installation that was situated less than 5 meters from a total of 9 million litres of fuel... another was an anfo plant installation of a new monitoring/mixing system in a plant that made batches of anfo- in 1000 tonne batches... |
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| Azure Guru Joined: 09/11/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 446 |
@JohnS I agree, I reread what I wrote. In my reference to "processor boards" I was generally referring to ebay/aliexpress sourced boards that are a bit of a give away by the lack of specs and compliance information from the vendor. I think the rest reads ok. Olimex is a vendor that is committed to supplying certain boards as long as there is demand built using industrial versions of components. Not sure if their products are put through the usual industrial and commercial compliance and standards tests through a certified testing lab and if those are made available to their customers. Not that it is required for all applications, for some high end embedded solutions they are a requirement and the price point usually reflects that. |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 4044 |
As far as I can see Mchp are supplying boards/modules in about the same state of compliance as Olimex i.e. industrial spec components, temperature grades etc. The Mchp ones look to be slower with less RAM/flash and a lot less I/O, but in terms of industrial spec about the same. John |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 4044 |
Sorry you lost me - which two? I take it one is the RPi family but what's the other? In case you meant the orange pi I didn't realise they were particularly common but even if they are I'd be very reluctant to use them without some serious stress testing etc! And a Linux that doesn't overclock etc!! John |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 4044 |
I meant to add: Of course, along the lines mentioned, a board/module is far away from a full system (needing case, PSU, I/O etc) and then compliance/EMC.etc testing and certification. I don't think Mchp are doing that just as Olimex don't (as far as I know). John |
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| Boppa Guru Joined: 08/11/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 814 |
Orange its getting quite a broad user base as wellThere is a considerable difference in 'industrial specs' depending on application, like I said, specific industrial applications may be considerably less tolerant than others- one used for a photo booth may be fine in that particular 'industrial application' but the same board may not be used in others (like an anfo plant as an example) Its kind of like the broad spectrum of 'cars' they all do the same thing-move people- but there is a broad price range in specifications, prices and abilities... |
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| isochronic Guru Joined: 21/01/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 689 |
The problem with the Pi and other Linux bits for me is the lack of A/D inputs. Sure it is simple to add an external add-on of some sort but it is an added complication to a product that is already complex. I gather Beaglebone has analog inputs but I have not looked further at Beaglebone yet. Looking at the Microchip linux module module datasheet it says up to 4 analog inputs, presumably 12 bit so that looks good. $47 is not bad, (ok not wonderful either) but I guess that is deliberate strategic pricing. Do I want to revisit Linux ? Maybe ? Quite interesting though I think. A good project would be to simply whack it into a metal case with connectors and see how it goes as a little Linux, an LCD of some sort would be nice as well. I wonder what Linux flavor it is ?? (edited a little to be clearer) |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 4044 |
It's weird how the RPi has no ADC etc! At least the A20 and others do. Plus LCD/HDMI and tons of GPIOs. If you try the Mchp board please report back :) John |
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| isochronic Guru Joined: 21/01/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 689 |
I am wondering if it (ie atmel-microchip) would need pickit4 ? |
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