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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : DREAM 6800 - FPGA?
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BobDevries Senior Member  Joined: 08/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 266 |
Hi all, Id love to go back to my computing roots, namely the DREAM6800 which was published in Electronics Australia in 1979. As I see it, there are two options open to me: 1. Get a PCB made and populate it. I have all the componeents or can source them. The difficulty is that the PCB was hand laid out using clear film and black tape. There are to my knowledge no GERBER files for it. 2. Use an FPGA to simulate the various components. There are a minimum of components; MC6800 CPU, MC6821 PIA and a handful of TTL chips. The difficulty there is that I know precious little about FPGA. I do have full documentation of the DREAM 6800, including, but not limited to, the memory map and ROM disassembly. Question is: Is either of the above do-able? I don't have the physical ability to do #1, although I could load and solder components. Suggestions? Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia |
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vegipete Guru  Joined: 29/01/2013 Location: CanadaPosts: 1132 |
A quick Google search gives this web site. If that image is correct, a PCB looks very easy to draw. The image seems to be 130 dpi and results in a PCB about 250mm x 145mm. A double sided board would be more robust and remove the need for all those jumper wires but even single sided would work. However, that web site suggests someone has already drawn it up in some PCB CAD or other. Visit Vegipete's *Mite Library for cool programs. |
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| TomSon Newbie  Joined: 17/09/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 6 |
Hi Bob, I'm interested in this topic too. Im interested to find out if you did you decide to get a 2 sided board ? Id like to rebuild one too.... |
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bigmik Guru Joined: 20/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2950 |
Hi All, What an inefficient use of space!.. Is there a reason the PCB is so large? OK, I know that seemed to be the way of things back then.. I remember the TRS-80 and System80/PMC-80 were also similarly wide space boards. Surely that could have been at least half the size.. But interesting none the less. Is there a schematic for the Dream..? I am bordering on reproducing it, after a few projects I have on the go are completed.. It would be a matter of do the purists want same size same layout or would a smaller size be acceptable? If we halved the size to 145 x 125 (assuming it couldn’t quite fit a 100 x 100). The costs to get produced are VERY reasonable.. Unfortunately DEX doesn’t allow just laying out the traces so I couldn’t just trace copy it as the schematic and PCB are linked. If no link in schematic then no trace on PCB.. What about copyrights on reproducing something this old? Regards, Mick Mick's uMite Stuff can be found >>> HERE (Kindly hosted by Dontronics) <<< |
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| Volhout Guru Joined: 05/03/2018 Location: NetherlandsPosts: 5089 |
hi BobDeVries, Not sure how good your VHDL skills are, but putting a single board computer in an FPGA is not that simple, even if libraries exist for the keyparts (i.e. the 6802). Although putting retro computers in FPGA's is very much alive these years. Maybe becuase actual silicon is getting scarce these days, and the generation that grew up with the computers from the 70's and 80's have grown skills during their work years in writing code for FPGA's and take up the challenge. In Britain, there is a FPGA version of sinclair (ZX81/spectrum) called "spectrum next" and for acorn (BBC/ATOM) there are libraries. This is a vivid scene.' How much this helps in creating a DREAM6800 I don't know. You can search on the web what is available for 6800 family. For someone without any VHDL skills it may be simpler to take a scrap of veroboard and solder some sockets on it, or create a PCB. 1 evening of inhaling solder fumes makes your dream come true.... Volhout PicomiteVGA PETSCII ROBOTS |
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Chopperp Guru Joined: 03/01/2018 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1097 |
Silicon Chip has the Dream listed over a number of EA issues from '79. Would cost a bit in photocopy fees though. They would also know about the copywrite. Bob D. did mention that he does have all the documentation. Brian ChopperP |
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| lizby Guru Joined: 17/05/2016 Location: United StatesPosts: 3378 |
41 years later would copyright apply? (Asking from ignorance of the law in this case?) And for hobby use, would anyone even care? And if you're re-doing the design without literally copying every trace, would copyright apply? PicoMite, Armmite F4, SensorKits, MMBasic Hardware, Games, etc. on fruitoftheshed |
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| Volhout Guru Joined: 05/03/2018 Location: NetherlandsPosts: 5089 |
Hi, I am not sure about copy rights, but patents have a life time of 20 years unless actively renewed. For a 6800 design, I cannot imagine someone renewing rights in the year 2000.... And...patents only apply when commerce comes into pay. So unless you want to make a million boards, and sell those at a profit....there is no problem. Volhout PicomiteVGA PETSCII ROBOTS |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 4044 |
Copyrights have gone mad. The original idea of encouraging works for the benefit of the public and thus to reward the creator has been perverted by commercial interests from such as 50 years to the author's life to that life plus N years, I think now N is 75 in many places. So 41 is still within copyright I expect. Disney and others are keen to keep various things in copyright forever so lobby hard, so far successfully. The idea was also that publishers would get (say) 15-20% but look at what music firms take! John Edited 2020-04-14 07:57 by JohnS |
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| Frank N. Furter Guru Joined: 28/05/2012 Location: GermanyPosts: 949 |
Hi! Has anyone seen this page here? Frank |
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CaptainBoing Guru Joined: 07/09/2016 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2170 |
Sounds right up your street Bob: "40th Anniversary Revamp by David Fry (ZIP ~ 4MB) -- Posted January 2019 I am delighted to announce that vintage computer enthusiast, David Fry (UK), has completed an elegant re-design of the DREAM using a double-sided PCB (pictured above). It has an on-board switchmode regulator for the +5V supply and a DC/DC converter for negative 5V. Memory has been upgraded to 4KB using two 6116 RAM chips. The EPROM can be a 2716 or 2732 type. Otherwise, David's design remains faithful to the original. The download includes KiCad PCB design files and Gerber files for board fabrication." |
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SimpleSafeName Guru Joined: 28/07/2019 Location: United StatesPosts: 351 |
I opened it up in Kicad, and it looks very nice. It did have 2 unrouted tracks, but that cleaned itself up on its own when I did a DRC and it requested permission to do a refill (which I gave). The layout isn't anything like the original, but if "period accuracy" isn't a concern, then it certainly looks like it's ready for production. Find a shop that accepts Kicad gerbers and and they will tell you if it build-able or not (OSHPark is one that will work with Kicad, but man are they expensive!!). I used OSHPark to validate the board and their automated check came back okay, so it seems good. I did a fast price check without loading the gerbers, just the board dimensions of 208.3mm x 146mm, and they quoted $36.30 for 5 boards with shipping to Australia. https://www.nextpcb.com/pcb-quote?layer=2&length=208.3&width=146&count=5&height=1.6 Edited 2020-04-18 15:00 by SimpleSafeName |
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| TomSon Newbie Joined: 17/09/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 6 |
Not sure if people are aware ... Fair bit of stuff on internet on Dream 6800 computer. Massive archive at forum https://microbee-mspp.org.au/ ( Have to join to view / download PDFs etc ) Has lots magazine articles , newsletters etc A dream forum etc Has good info on other early Australian computers Also MJ BAUER has site on net at http://www.mjbauer.biz/DREAM6800.htm |
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