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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : MMBASIC: Editor or Terminal?!
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Poppy Guru  Joined: 25/07/2019 Location: GermanyPosts: 486 |
I am running my CMM standalone, no terminal at all, powering via USB/Charge-Adaptor, so there is no data transfer. The cable is selfmade and exclusively connecting power. -> https://www.thebackshed.com/forum/uploads/Poppy/2019-08-08_061550_usb_power.jpg Just testing again, scrolling a code, of some length up and down and at last there was a "2" inserted without having touched any other key than arrow up/down. This happened keeping the arrow key pressed and during continuously single-triggering as well. My solution is as it just shows up occasionally to set the cursor to the line-beginning before massive scrolling, so that any change can be recognized directly, not jumping anywhere within the code back and forth. So the "2" was inserted at the line beginning for 2 times in my test ... Itīs not annoying for me just being questioned as a phenomenon.  Andre ... such a GURU? | ||||
| ceptimus Senior Member  Joined: 05/07/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 130 |
Interesting. Try a different USB/Charge adapter if you have one, and a different (shorter?) USB cable. Do you have any way to power the Maximite via its barrel-jack power connector instead of USB and see if that improves things? My theory now is that there's some electrical noise on the USB power supply/cable that's being picked up by the unused USB signal wires. |
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| Poppy Guru Joined: 25/07/2019 Location: GermanyPosts: 486 |
The power source does not matter at all, it also happens using the DC-Jack. Probably caused by the keyboard itself, just key-bouncing not being cleared enough?!?!. Unfortunately I do not have any more PS2 keyboards to compare. Andre ... such a GURU? | ||||
| Tinine Guru Joined: 30/03/2016 Location: United KingdomPosts: 1646 |
@Matherp I hear ya, Pete. The Parallax SPIN language does the same, caught me out many a time. Thankfully there is PropBASIC  |
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| ceptimus Senior Member Joined: 05/07/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 130 |
You guys should try the Whitespace programming language!  Yes, it's a real language and you can download compliers for it. The language consists entirely of space, tab, and linefeed characters. Here's a Tutorial page that explains the language and contains the instructions (you can't really call it a listing) of how to enter the equivalent of the BASIC program: FOR N=1 TO 10:PRINT N:NEXT |
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Grogster Admin Group  Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9063 |
Re: the scrolling thing, can you use PgUp and PgDn along with HOME and END on the CMM? Its been ages since I use a CMM unit, so I can't remember, but the Micromite editor supports you using the arrow keys, but also PgUp and PgDn to jump up and down the code a page at a time, and press END twice, you will go right to the end of the code, and press HOME twice, you will go right to the top of the code. Those extra navigation keys make jumping around in the editor much faster if you have a large program. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| ceptimus Senior Member Joined: 05/07/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 130 |
Yes, PgUp, PgDn, Home-Home, and End-End work exactly the same when using the editor via the VGA screen and PS2 keyboard on the CMM. Optionally, if you have the USB connected and Tera Term running, then you can use either the PS2 keyboard or the PC one, and the text on the VGA screen and that in the Tera Term window change together and always match. |
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| Poppy Guru Joined: 25/07/2019 Location: GermanyPosts: 486 |
Great, thanks for this advice, I donīt know if I already knew and forgot it again, or if it just passed me by, but except the "End" Key apparently I did not recognize the other features. Right now they are just new to me. This makes it much easier! Andre ... such a GURU? | ||||
kiiid Guru Joined: 11/05/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 671 |
You could try my ongoing work on Rittle It has a built-in editor called "ride" which can do debugging as well http://rittle.org -------------- |
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CaptainBoing Guru Joined: 07/09/2016 Location: United KingdomPosts: 1985 |
You are not. I use GCB a reasonable amount and I can assure you it is compiled either to native HEX or ASM (for often enlightening analysis and onward assembly). You can blow the code directly in via the IDE but once it's in, any changes have to be done in the IDE and a visit to the burner (in whatever form you do it). I am keen to hear of this alternative too. |
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| CaptainBoing Guru Joined: 07/09/2016 Location: United KingdomPosts: 1985 |
Just so and there is a versiion of MMBasic that dispenses with the editor. I have used it on a number of projects (MMBasic Lite) but I haven't heard of it for a while now (but no need to go to a later version either so no driver for me)... I wonder if it has fallen by the wayside - Geoff? |
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| CaptainBoing Guru Joined: 07/09/2016 Location: United KingdomPosts: 1985 |
hmm interesting. Thanks for the link |
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Geoffg Guru Joined: 06/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 3165 |
It is still there and is updated with the main release. Geoff Geoff Graham - http://geoffg.net |
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| Poppy Guru Joined: 25/07/2019 Location: GermanyPosts: 486 |
Coming back to this particular Off Topic I just have the following idea ... BASIC itself is more a memetic phenomenon than just a simple programming language, current developments depend on individual issues for being kept alive and progressed, just like MMBASIC as an example. Of course this is all related to some standard we all learned to know and to like in former times (back in the late 70īs to the early 90īs), so what about some little renaming: B eloved A ll-purpose S ymbolic I nstruction C ode Probably the first love, not the last, but a special one of its kind! Andre ... such a GURU? | ||||
| Tinine Guru Joined: 30/03/2016 Location: United KingdomPosts: 1646 |
Brilliant Alternative to Stupidly Incomprehensible Coding |
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| Paul_L Guru Joined: 03/03/2016 Location: United StatesPosts: 769 |
Hey!!! Another wandering thread!! I love it! Especially when it recalls my old friends John Kemeny and Tom Kurtz. I met them in 1959 at Dartmouth. I watched from Cornell as they came to the realization that their 1956 DARSIMCO, (Dartmouth Simplified Code), needed some help. FORTRAN (1958) had made it obsolete. Undeterred, John Kemeny and Sidney Marshall, an undergraduate, in 1962 created DOPE, (Dartmouth Oversimplified Programming Experiment), which couldn't quite compete with FORTRAN. Meanwhile, Tom Kurtz, had been trying to develop subsets of FORTRAN and ALGOL. They finally got together in 1963 and began combining DARSIMCO and DOPE with multiline structures and a time sharing operating system folded into the language. BASIC began running on a GE mini with 6 terminals in 1964. Boy, it was wonderful to get away from those darned Hollerith card decks! John Kemeny, an Hungarian born intellectual who assisted Jon VonNeuman on the Manhattan Project, assisted Einstein at Princeton, served as president of Dartmouth, and chaired the presidential commission investigating Three Mile Island, told me that he did not understand or like anagrams and that BASIC stood for nothing. Tom Kurtz, from Oak Park Illinois, said that he thought anagrams were cute, that he had heard of a few dozen for BASIC, but that he really didn't compose any of them. In 1983 a bunch of students persuaded Kemeny and Kurtz to create True Basic Inc. to distribute TrueBASIC based on Dartmouth BASIC 7 to run on top of DOS, Mac OS, Windows, Unix, and Linux. Sadly, development of their time sharing operating system with integrated BASIC was not continued. Jerry Pournelle reviewed the TrueBASIC implementation in 1985 and did not like the total lack of error messages! Me, I like anagrams, I just am not original enough to come up with any, so I vote for Tinine's "Brilliant Alternative to Stupidly Incomprehensible Coding!". Paul in NY |
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| Poppy Guru Joined: 25/07/2019 Location: GermanyPosts: 486 |
I donīt agree and actually for me this is no poll just pointing at the memetic aspect! Old BASIC (the classic Dartmouth stuff) is actually dead, it probably used to be something fundamentally great in former times but on the basis of modern technology it is just anecdotic, at least in the first instance! The modern BASIC I am talking about is founded on Bill Gatesī efforts (GW- to QBASIC, just what MMBASIC took up), though he was generally keen on stealing ideas he also improved them and therefore made it possible for BASIC to get that popular. Now we are even a step ahead: Current BASICs are more refined! Actually "BASIC" is not "brilliant" it is just "fine", probably "great" from some individual point of view. I still stick to: ... and "stupidity" only comes up with the programmer, the more languages there are to choose between the better it is! It only depends on the individual task! The only interesting part for me is to see what BASIC today really is and where it actually comes from still using it parallely and therefore satifyingly myself for different tasks. For me it is just "beloved", questionable if it still is qualified for really naive beginners. Just take some longer modern BASIC code and it will be cryptic to noncoding outsiders just like any other code happens to be. Here we could come back to Classic BASIC for all first steppers! Some readings: https://www.dartmouth.edu/basicfifty/ https://www.dartmouth.edu/basicfifty/basicmanual_1964.pdf Edited 2019-08-17 15:20 by Poppy Andre ... such a GURU? | ||||
| lizby Guru Joined: 17/05/2016 Location: United StatesPosts: 3015 |
Line numbers and only GOTO for program control? We might as well teach typing by having learners carve letters in wood blocks and set them up in presses. (I realize you were joking (at least partly)). PicoMite, Armmite F4, SensorKits, MMBasic Hardware, Games, etc. on fruitoftheshed |
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| Poppy Guru Joined: 25/07/2019 Location: GermanyPosts: 486 |
Nope, not joking at all. GOTO is generally useful, if the usage well-thought and line numbers for beginners can be useful for proactive structuring. GW-BASIC as a standard for "Classic BASIC" would just match, providing more control commands than GOTO. After having learned the basic logic behind programming a progress to a QBASIC-Style would be good. If MMBASIC-Dos had the same capabilities as GW-BASIC does the whole MMBASIC package would be a great basis for general beginning, in that case the line numbers were not so important! Until then I would recommend for total rookies: https://sourceforge.net/projects/pcbasic/ Andre ... such a GURU? | ||||
| Poppy Guru Joined: 25/07/2019 Location: GermanyPosts: 486 |
Just opening a new Thread specially for BASIC, generally and specifically! -> https://www.thebackshed.com/forum/ViewTopic.php?FID=16&TID=11653&LastEntry=Y#139519#139519 Andre ... such a GURU? | ||||
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