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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : W10 takes ages to load small files....
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Grogster Admin Group  Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9610 |
I have an Intel NUC running W10 (quad-core 2.5GHz, 16GB RAM, WD 500GB Blue SSD), but files are taking ages and ages to open. Take a simple 10k text file in Notepad. When you open it, I get the blue-busy circle going around and around, and then the file eventually loads after about ten seconds. This is insane on this kind of hardware and with an SSD. W10 and the data are both on the SSD, so it is odd that opening files is now essentially slower then it would be on a spinning hard-disk.  Does not matter what file I try to open - spreadsheets and word documents are the same. I would be curious to know if anyone else on W10 is seeing this. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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TassyJim Guru  Joined: 07/08/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 6283 |
One possibility is the antivirus doing a scan first. That happens the first time the file is opened but should happen if you open the same file again soon afterwards. Jim VK7JH MMedit |
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KeepIS Guru Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1882 |
Intel NUC Gen8 i7 4.5G 8m cache, 16GB ram, M2 NVMe main Drive, Samsung SSD 860 Pro secondary drive. I just tried with PDF files but they load instantly if the PDF viewer is open, around two seconds if the app needs to be launched first. I agree though, some file loading slowness has crept even further into the latest Win10. My main drive has read/write speeds 3 to 4 times faster than an SSD, but for simple file opening and application launching, Win 10 does not take advantage of the faster drive. There are a lot of background crap that can slow this down, but antivirus SW, including the one built in Win10, seem to be one of the main culprits in SOME cases. But as you say, with the hardware specs, this should be better, one wonders if it's design flaws in the Hardware design, poorly written drivers, or Win10 is tripping over itself trying to contain virus attacks on the sub systems. Whatever it is, I'm just not interested in doing a full install from scratch at this time to test a base install, for the most part it's still fast enough. Win10 definitely does not take advantage of fast/newer hardware (benchmarks don't count), my 10 year old PC, very fast for it's day with all SSD drives etc, is still in the ballpark for real world application usage speeds when compared to the much more powerful newer system. NANO Inverter: Full download - Only Hex Ver 8.1Ks |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9610 |
Hi chums.  This machine always ran W10 as a clean-install(by me), and it did not USED to delay like this when opening files. It USED to be really fast, as you would expect with modern hardware running from an SSD. I also agree with you, KeepIS, I cannot be bothered to take the time required to do another clean-install on this machine. I supposes I COULD, but I don't really have the time, as it is not just the OS, but also all the applications and their associated data files etc....takes quite a bit of time all up. I will disable my AVG Antivirus for the purposes of testing though - Jim might have something there, and I never thought of that. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| ceptimus Senior Member  Joined: 05/07/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 130 |
It's been the case for years that on a PC that can dual boot into either Linux or Windows, with the Arduino IDE installed in both operating systems, the Linux one will compile and link much faster. I spent some time investigating this, and found that even after switching off all the Windows virus protection checks, the Linux version still easily outperforms it. Compiling and linking an Arduino C++ project of moderate size involves the opening and closing of hundreds of small files scattered across several folders - header files, library files, source files, and so on. Often the same header files are opened over and over again only for the compiler to think, "I've already seen this", and close them again. |
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| BrianP Senior Member Joined: 30/03/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 292 |
I think I would go for the quite good inbuilt Win 10 AV rather than AVG. I've seen PCs that were quite slow using AVG & perked up dramatically once it was gone. You would need to completely remove it though, just "turning it off" doesn't relinquish the many hooks it has into the OS. To re-iterate, the in-built Win 10 AV, while not as good as the very best, is not far behind & better than a lot. It ranks quite well. B |
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| KeepIS Guru Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1882 |
I agree with BrianP on the current state of Win10 Defender Antivirus, however independent in depth testing revealed that Malwarebytes in conjunction with Defender made a for a more complete system. Malwarebytes covers threat paths that W10 Defender doesn't, so they don't double up, it has a tiny system footprint and works seamlessly with Win10 Defender. I now use Malwarebytes(Premium) due to the extra protection offered over the Free version. This is just my humble opinion though, but it's the cleanest simplest and most unobtrusive AV setup that I've ever used. I'm sick of having blood (speed) sucking tentacles of most AV packages spread throughout the OS, IMHO most AV programs are the very definition of a virus themselves! Mike. NANO Inverter: Full download - Only Hex Ver 8.1Ks |
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| BrianP Senior Member Joined: 30/03/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 292 |
For an AV product to do its work effectively it must become an integral part of the OS. This is where the men & women of AV separate from the girls & boys. The AV needs to be the first thing that starts on bootup, from there it can be in control of everything else. BUT Windows thinks it is, & wants to be, the boss here, so how well the AV & Windows talk determines the overall performance of the core system. To its credit MS liaises with the good AV vendors much better these days than in the past (read, in the past jealously guarded). The AV vendors have to stay up to speed with MS so they know how much the goal posts are moving in the next "update" & can be ready. As you can imagine this takes a lot of R&D resource & explains to a large degree why the paid for products are generally much better. You do mostly get what you pay for. I agree with KeepIS regarding Malware Bytes. This would be my 2nd choice, as I've stated several times previously my 1st choice is the ESET Internet Security product - it manages to do a sterling job of protection without bogging the system down & always seems to be ahead of the next MS update. Each to his own...  B |
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Turbo46 Guru Joined: 24/12/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1642 |
I have heard bad things about AVG - how it slows down the PC and interferes with other programs. I have been using Windows Defender ever since I switched to Windows 10 plus Malwarebytes free. I have had no problems with Classic Shell or Libre Office either as reported by Grogster in another post. All works well. I do occasionally go to suspect sites but am careful what I download and after installing a new program I make sure that I have no PUP installed by stealth. Never had a problem apart from the bloatware that usually comes with a new PC/Laptop. Bill Keep safe. Live long and prosper. |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9610 |
I have uninstalled AVG Free, and enabled W10's own AV and firewall, and will play with it like that for a while. Initial tests seem to reveal that files load a little faster, but they still take more time then I would ever expect with an SSD. I will keep the forum posted. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| KeepIS Guru Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1882 |
Hi Grogster, I think you mentioned MS word, so I timed a few opening times for a couple of apps. MS Word (MS Office enterprise 2007), first load, 1.5 seconds. Open a document in MS word, too fast to time with a stop watch. PDF-Xchange Editor. First load by clicking on a PDF file, 3 seconds. Open a PDF file from within the PDF viewer, too fast to time. Open Notepad++ and auto load the last file, 240k in size - 1.3 seconds. Tera Term - too fast to time. MMedit, almost instant load for program but 2.8 seconds to process and load the last file, 240K in size. Mike. Edited 2019-11-10 14:08 by KeepIS NANO Inverter: Full download - Only Hex Ver 8.1Ks |
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| KeepIS Guru Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1882 |
Too fast to time when opening an 11k text file in Notepad on my system. I didn't register that the fist time I read your post, something not right there. Mike. Edited 2019-11-10 14:18 by KeepIS NANO Inverter: Full download - Only Hex Ver 8.1Ks |
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| BrianP Senior Member Joined: 30/03/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 292 |
As far as you know...  You don't have to initiate a download from a site - a lot of stuff is set to automatically download & run as soon as you go to the site. Which is why you really do need that AV constantly looking over your shoulder. You wouldn't necessarily know if you've scored a rootkit or a bitcoin miner (although your CPU & graphics GPU would likely be maxed out if you had). [rant] yet again - the Internet is not to be trusted! [/rant]. A lot of supposedly innocent sites have been compromised in the past. The bad guys know you'll likely lower your guard on a site that you think you know...  I'll shut up now - I've said before that I'm paranoid about Internet related security. I've seen & heard about too many bad happenings... B |
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| BrianP Senior Member Joined: 30/03/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 292 |
Grogs - as a test, try copying a bunch of these files to another folder & see how quick that is. I have a feeling it's a Windows Explorer issue rather than just an I/O thing. B |
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| KeepIS Guru Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1882 |
Totally agree, like you, I'm don't think I'm paranoid, but it's a reality and growing at a faster rate as time goes on. I've been around long enough to know how to pick the usual suspect sites, but even a trusted site can be compromised, I've only had one Malicious site access blocked this month. Malware, PUP's, Ransomware and Exploits are detected and blocked by Malwarebytes (real time) scanners, however I also use independent rootkit and similar virus scanners once a month just as an extra safety measure. This along with full independent rolling backups, in case one is compromised before I find out there is a problem, usually two weeks apart, and with automated daily local backups for programming, emails etc and 4 rotating USB drives. I guess I am a little paranoid about loosing my programming code though  .NANO Inverter: Full download - Only Hex Ver 8.1Ks |
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| BrianP Senior Member Joined: 30/03/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 292 |
We are like beings - I have a similar backup regime, & ESET tells me where I should not go... As a matter of interest, I do run Malware Bytes as a secondary scanner & only very occasionally does it find anything ESET hasn't. Usually a PUP that I've told ESET that I need. ESET blocks all of the above stuff that MB does... B Edited 2019-11-10 16:06 by BrianP |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9610 |
Tried that, did not help. Also, I generally open documents inside of LibreOffice. I also open code files only via MMEDIT, for example, and MMEDIT also has the same ~10 open-delay. Most files also take about the same time to SAVE too. I only noted this tonight, when saving a few files, and noted that saving them is also way, way slower then it should be on W10 on an SSD..... Remember, the data files are also local. I am not trying to load from a network resource or even a local USB external drive or anything. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| BrianP Senior Member Joined: 30/03/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 292 |
So just copying files was also slow? Download Piriform's Defraggler (don't install any bundled stuff) & do a hard drive benchmark test. Let's know what the result is... (mine says 98 MB/S). B Edited 2019-11-10 17:24 by BrianP |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9610 |
No, copying the files to the new folder was fast. But opening them from the new folder was just as slow as from the original folder. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| BrianP Senior Member Joined: 30/03/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 292 |
The purpose of the test was to see if the internal data shuffling was OK - it is. So we are still faced with the open/save issue. It seems you are not the only one though, have a look here: https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-files/windows-10-very-slow-to-save-files/38166a7b-5fc5-4acc-8b03-4f1f3852338c I think page 2 has the most useful stuff... B |
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