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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : CMM2 Monitors and Adaptors
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KeepIS Guru  Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1882 |
I thought it might be a good idea to have some information about which Monitors and VGA to HDMI convertors work with various Video modes of the CMM2. I know Geoff linked to a VGA to HDMI adaptor that worked ON PAGE 8 of the CMM2 user manual. There are possibly others that work but the thing is, will they work at the gaming Modes resolutions of the CMM2, and that brings us to Monitors. CMM2 Game mode resolutions could be a real problem for some later LCD monitors. The current monitor I'm using is a 23 year old 19" CMV LCD with VGA, I could never throw it out and found it a few weeks ago, it seems to works in all modes, obviously some very slight artefacts in a couple of modes. I have a small low cost HDMI adaptor, I tried it with my late model 32" LG monitor, but the monitor throws up an "Out of Range" display box for anything below 800 x 600, at least I assume it's the monitor, I doubt the low cost HDMI convertor would generate a message, or it could be because the Adaptor is putting out junk below 800 x 600? I'm seeing 640 x 480 @ 75Hz for low res modes and 800 x 600 @ 60Hz for the default Mode, but within those there are various constructed resolutions and colour modes, so monitor tear and artefacts my need to be checked for a given monitor on the modes you intend to use. So I have no idea if any of the HDMI adaptors will convert ALL of the CMM2 gaming modes, the specs are either not supplied or don't list modes much below 800 x 600. I imagine getting a HDMI adaptor and Monitor and trying to figure out which one is limiting the Modes you want to use could be an interesting exercise in frustration. So a list of monitors, both VGA and HDIMI that work, and which Modes they support, along with HDMI adaptors when required, and the Modes they convert correctly. That information could be advantageous to users when it comes time to get a CMM2. Thoughts? Mike Edited 2020-06-17 15:55 by KeepIS NANO Inverter: Full download - Only Hex Ver 8.1Ks |
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| matherp Guru Joined: 11/12/2012 Location: United KingdomPosts: 10310 |
All modes except 800x600 use an underlying VGA resolution of 640x480@75Hz and that is all the monitor will see. |
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| KeepIS Guru Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1882 |
Thanks, yes I noted that in my post. The problem is that my late model LG Monitor won't accept 640 x 480 via the VGA to HDMI convertor, the adapter spec is listed to run at 640 x 480. Two other monitor give different results, one, another smaller and older LG with VGA is perfect on every mode but Mode 1,12 with just the slightest bit of instability, another doesn't like Mode 1,12 or Mode 1,16 with quite a bit of picture disturbance apparent (can't adjust it out). I can always take the CMM2 to the store and plug it into the demo models when shopping for a monitor. NANO Inverter: Full download - Only Hex Ver 8.1Ks |
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| matherp Guru Joined: 11/12/2012 Location: United KingdomPosts: 10310 |
What version motherboard are you using or are you patch wired? |
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| KeepIS Guru Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1882 |
I'm still patch wired, very short leads and a thick short common ground. I realise this layout leaves me open to lead coupling and interaction between video and the the Horz sync lead. It's strange that 3 monitors I have give quite different results. I'm just in the process of testing the HDMI adaptor on another monitor that has VGA and HDMI inputs. The VGA display is very good, except for Mode 1,12 which has a very slight tear in the left centre, so it may answer my question about the usability of this VGA to HDMI adapter - or not. NANO Inverter: Full download - Only Hex Ver 8.1Ks |
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| KeepIS Guru Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1882 |
Another late model LCD with VGA and HDMI input, the monitor works well via VGA. Using HDMI in, the Monitor displayed Mode 1 via the VGA to HDMI adaptor, however it showed a "no input" graphic when switched to 640 modes. However switching back to Mode 1 then showed the same "no input" graphic. Powered off/on and instant picture, switched to a 640 x 480 mode and power off/on and instant Mode 2 picture, switching between all 640 x 480 modes without a problem, switch between (800 x 600) and (640 x 480) would only work following a Monitor power cycle. Went to try my 32" HDMI computer monitor again and found a VGA socket hidden in the back panel. This monitor will not display 640 x 480 modes under any condition via the same VGA adaptor, AND it will not display any mode below 800 x 600 via its own VGA input. The same out of range error is reported in both cases. So until I can try a few others, I won't just assume that a late model LCD monitor can support 640 x 480, even if it has a VGA input. This seems really strange to me, I guess they are cutting costs everywhere and starting to drop low res modes in this 4K and above world. I just borrowed a Samsung monitor with HDMI and VGA. Great on all modes, except Modes 1,12 shows some instability and 1,16 very slight noise every few 100 ms. The results were the same via the VGA to HDMI adaptor with the exception of Mode 1,12, it showed a lot of tearing and occasionally switching to a blank screen then back to the input, however all modes switch correctly via the adaptor, so the adaptor appears to be functioning Ok, this adaptor comes with a small USB lead for power and it looks like it needs it to run, just plugged into the USB HUB. So four different monitors with different results via HDMI and VGA. I'm assuming that noise and instability on Mode 1,12 and to a slight extent Mode 1,16, is due to my test layout. NANO Inverter: Full download - Only Hex Ver 8.1Ks |
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TassyJim Guru Joined: 07/08/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 6283 |
This is the VGA to HDMI adapter I have. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/332678074044 Select the VGA to HDMI option. The problem is that if you ordered one from the same supplier, it could be different. Mine works on all modes to my old cheap Samsung monitor. There are a few changes to the HDMI specs so when I was looking for an adapter, I did see different versions that looked the same. During development, we did find my monitor one of the fussy ones but it is very happy with the current firmware. I expect that the slight flicker you see in some modes will be gone once you have a proper board. If not, we do have a plan B. It is not very convenient for me to try other displays and none of my TVs can be called new. Jim VK7JH MMedit |
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| GregZone Senior Member  Joined: 22/05/2020 Location: New ZealandPosts: 114 |
Assuming the CMM2 is putting out the standard VESA DMT (Display Monitor Timings) for these 2 output resolutions (800x600@60Hz & 640x480@75Hz), then you would assume that all HDMI capable displays should support these basic resolutions? Unless there is perhaps some +/- sync polarity support issue? The below supported resolutions table is from a recent model Samsung TV. Note that the 640x480 support is -/- sync polarity, whereas the 800x600 support is +/+ sync polarity. Presumably these are the normal / expected sync polarities for these resolutions? A quick look at the VESA DMT specifications did not appear to list specific sync polarity requirements for these resolutions (but I may not have read deep enough).  |
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| KeepIS Guru Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1882 |
I've proved that the VGA to HDMI adaptor that I have runs both 800x600 and 640x480. Out of the 3 combined HDMI - VGA Monitors the results are: 1: My late model LG does not want anything to do with 640 x 480 either via its VGA input or HDMI input via the convertor. Out of Range message on screen. 2: A smaller monitor works fine on VGA input, but needs to be forced to see the HDMI input (using the adaptor) when the video switches between 640x 480 and 800x600. 3: This monitor works perfectly with both HDMI (VGA to HDMI adaptor) and via its own VGA input. So the VGA to HDMI adaptor is good. 4: This monitor is a 20 something year old CMV VGA only monitor, of course it works correctly as well. All are Video monitors, not 4K HDMI TV units. NANO Inverter: Full download - Only Hex Ver 8.1Ks |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 4044 |
Interesting - thanks, Jim. It shows an AUDIO IN - would that only apply for the HDMI to VGA? I see lots of listings on ebay & aliexpress etc for such devices. How do you tell which will (or won't) work with a CMM2? (Any things to avoid / guidelines to look for.) John |
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| KeepIS Guru Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1882 |
The audio port is for the VGA to HDMI version. Audio from the CMM2 over Monitor speakers or Line out from the monitor. Mike. NANO Inverter: Full download - Only Hex Ver 8.1Ks |
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| KeepIS Guru Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1882 |
I have this unit, but it requires USB power, cable supplied. VGA -> HDMI The Specs cover everything we need, cost was $12.99 AU, 1 week delivery. Specifications 1.Input ports: VGA, 3.5mm audio, USB power port 2.Output ports: HDMI 3.Dimensions: 66 x 55 x 20mm 4.Weight: 40g 5.Supported input resolutions (at 60Hz): 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768, 1280x720, 1600x1200, 1920x1080 pixels 6.Output resolution (at 60Hz): 720p, 1080p Package contents: 1 x VGA to HDMI converter 1 x USB power cable 1 x User manual NOTE: Audio cable and other VGA or HDMI cables are not provided in the package. NOTE: The manual lists 640x480 @ 60/72/75/85Hz and 800x600 @ 60/70/72/75/85Hz. It ran every CMM2 mode using Jims ColourBars test program into a Samsung LCD monitor. Edited 2020-06-18 19:00 by KeepIS NANO Inverter: Full download - Only Hex Ver 8.1Ks |
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| abraxas Regular Member  Joined: 16/06/2020 Location: CanadaPosts: 99 |
I'm tempted to pick up a Dell 2000FP for retro-style computing like CMM2 and ZX Spectrum Next. Anyone tried testing that particular screen? It's out of production but still a rather widely available monitor on eBay. |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 4044 |
Mike, Thanks. |
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| KeepIS Guru Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1882 |
There is a user forum with differing opinions, but I mostly take these with a grain of salt. As pointed out, these are standard frame rates, and virtually any monitor should work. It's some very late model hires monitors that might be a problem? One of mine is a problem. My 22 year old CMV rocks and with a 4:3 aspect ratio, it's just right for this purpose. NANO Inverter: Full download - Only Hex Ver 8.1Ks |
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| matherp Guru Joined: 11/12/2012 Location: United KingdomPosts: 10310 |
If you are buying specifically, look for a DELL 2007Fp. These are 1600x1200 monitors so 800x600 can be displayed perfectly with 4 native pixels/ CMM2 pixel full screen and of course have a VGA port. You can also get a nice matching soundbar that clips under the monitor to complete the experience   Edited 2020-06-19 17:41 by matherp |
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| KeepIS Guru Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1882 |
Your screen is almost as clean as mine  NANO Inverter: Full download - Only Hex Ver 8.1Ks |
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Chopperp Guru Joined: 03/01/2018 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1097 |
@matherp Exactly the same model I'm using. ~20". OK so far for what I done with it. Upper vertical position swivel thingy needs tightening though. How come yours is displaying just "Version 5.05.03" ChopperP |
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| cTrix Newbie  Joined: 04/05/2020 Location: AustraliaPosts: 16 |
My little setup is one of three monitors. Either the 2007FP (above!) or I also have 2 portable monitors, both branded "Eyoyo" and native 800x600. I have the 10.4" and the 8" model. Here's the 8" monitor (which is still fine to use size wise).  You'll notice I also have an Officeworks Comsol powerbank. This has a 12v output so it can power both the Maximite and the Eyoyo Screen. I get about 30 hours running both... and well over 100 hours just running the Maximite! Great for when you just want to sit on the deck or take it camping. Nothing quite like being in the wilderness... away from mobile reception... on a rainy day... smashing out some BASIC :-P  Text is very readable even on 8". And it instantly switches modes, unless the Dell :-p YouTube video coming soon btw. Link: YouTube Colour MaxiMite 2 Intro Video | ctrix.net |
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| abraxas Regular Member Joined: 16/06/2020 Location: CanadaPosts: 99 |
How do the lower resolution modes look like on the Eyoyo, cTrix? |
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