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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : [CMM2] Hello!
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| jean-yves Newbie  Joined: 03/09/2020 Location: United KingdomPosts: 7 |
I thought I'd say hi - I've been reading the forums as a guest for a while and joined yesterday. I have ordered a CMM2 from micromite.org after learning about the little box of wonders from... well to be honest I can't quite remember! Either a YoutTube link or perhaps from the ZX Spectrum Next forum. Anyway, I was very excited to read about this computer and love the concept. I downloaded MMBasic for DOS, watched the YouTube reviews, and was hooked. Now I have to be patient and wait for the delivery. Little bit of background: I have no electronics experience at all - I was not taught it at school alas, but did have the benefit of being of that generation that got their start in the computer world on a BBC Micro in the school computer lab (I'm based in the UK). So programming became my thing. My parents then bought me a ZX Spectrum 16K, I saved up for ages and got an upgrade to 48K, and from there I was hooked for life, progressing onwards via the Amstrad CPC 6128, Amiga, back to Sinclair with my beloved QL, before finally joining the PC bandwagon and making a living as a software developer. For the last few years I've been freelance and work with some of the world's largest companies, mainly backend work, APIs and databases. But BASIC was my first programming love, and I still love to play with it outside of work (PureBasic, SpiderBasic, Xojo, SuperBasic on my Q68 super-QL, etc) Whilst in my Sinclair QL phase (which, to be fair I've never actually left), I wrote and released a commercial adventure game in 1988, Dreamlands. It was favourably reviewed in QL World magazine, and having gone through the MMBasic manuals I think that a conversion to the CMM2 will make it an ideal first project to get myself familiar with the basics (pun fully intended) of this platform. When I'm not coding, I am surreptitiously collecting retro or retro-revival computers without my wife's knowledge. She has no idea that I have ordered the CMM2, or that I have also backed the ZX Spectrum Next issue 2 kickstarter... heh heh! She did find my new Z80 CP/M board the other day, much to my amusement. Anyway, I am look forward to getting to know the community better over time and to have some fun with the CMM2. Edited 2020-09-04 19:13 by jean-yves |
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Poppy Guru  Joined: 25/07/2019 Location: GermanyPosts: 486 |
Hello!  I guess most of use share some related background. Looking forward to seeing your game-conversion.   Andre ... such a GURU? | ||||
RetroJoe Senior Member  Joined: 06/08/2020 Location: CanadaPosts: 290 |
Hey, Jean-Yves - welcome from another newbie and fellow retro computing enthusiast! I think you are going to be thrilled with your CMM2 once you get your hands on it. I too tinkered with the Windows version of MMBasic while I was waiting for mine, but it’s just not the same experience, in particular the missing graphics commands. A lot of the user community seems to be in the UK or Oz, and share your BBC and Sinclair heritage. I actually built a ZX81 kit “back in the day” in Canada, but it was always a fringe thing in North America, with the Apple ][ occupying the high end of the 8-bit market, the Commodore 64 the low-end, and the Atari 8-bit line somewhere in the middle. Ironically, the “low end” C64 had much better graphics and sound than the Apple ][ - I still have an Apple //e, and am shocked at how primitive it’s hardware actually is (and, quite remarkable what those early game developers were able to achieve). As you probably gathered, compared to those early BASICs, MMBasic is a full-featured powerhouse, and should indeed be sufficient to port just about anything you set your mind to (once you get your HW, you’ll be amazed when you run some of the great stuff developed by the Maximite community - it’s very motivational from an “art of the possible” perspective). There is also facility to call machine code subroutines (“CSUB”), albeit it’s substantially more complicated than the old-school POKE and CALL techniques, and you shouldn’t need it unless you are doing something insanely compute-intensive. Tom (user name “thwill”) has assembled a Welcome Tape expressly for newbies that pulls together a dozen or so contributions into a nice slick “out of the box” experience, and a great intro screen written by “vegipete”, who also wrote the “Lunar Lander” game that appears on the Welcome Tape. Also in the “don’t miss” category is Martin’s Max-e-Man and anything written by Mauro (“mxavier”), who is a legend around these parts :) Have fun, and looking forward to your contributions! Joe P. Montreal Edited 2020-09-04 21:15 by jpusztai Enjoy Every Sandwich / Joe P. |
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thwill Guru Joined: 16/09/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 4311 |
Thank you Joe, it's nice to hear that it is appreciated. It would not be possible without all the contributors. Best wishes, Tom Edited 2020-09-04 21:38 by thwill MMBasic for Linux, Game*Mite, CMM2 Welcome Tape, Creaky old text adventures |
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| RetroJoe Senior Member Joined: 06/08/2020 Location: CanadaPosts: 290 |
Very much so. I finally got around to trying it a few days ago and have been meaning to drop you a “thank you” line on the main thread, as I believe it was my newbie whining that inspired you to tackle it :) Happily, I am over the “Newbie Hump” and discovering new things daily - The Backshed is an awesome resource for picking up tips and tricks. I’m working on something I think is pretty cool...but the “coolness” bar is set very high! Could be a while before I can share anything - I’m realizing that even “simple” games are pretty complicated :) Cheers, Joe P. Enjoy Every Sandwich / Joe P. |
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| Poppy Guru Joined: 25/07/2019 Location: GermanyPosts: 486 |
Isn´t this what life generally should be about?!  Indeed! Is it? Really? I think nobody around is a real show-off, so therefore everything counts just within its individual scale, no need to be daunted, just show what you made and stand by it just as it is! We all are students of life! Some do just more specific digging into it than others. Elaboration takes time, but never forget that the simple idea can be the most exciting or funniest one. Andre ... such a GURU? | ||||
| RetroJoe Senior Member Joined: 06/08/2020 Location: CanadaPosts: 290 |
Indeed it is - it’s the journey that’s important, as the final destination is not something you want to think too hard about. Not to mention, life turns on a dime. I think the philosophy in my signature line is as deep as I want to get (I borrowed that from Warren Zevon - he said it during his last interview on Letterman before he passed away). Thanks for the encouraging words, and love your musical annotations! Although, it should be noted that the full lyric is “Everything counts... in large amounts” :) Apropos the “life-long learning” spirit, check this out. Those kids are very lucky to have a dad like that! Maybe making a chiptune cover of “Everything Counts” should go on our CMM2 project list. That, or something insane like this. Edited 2020-09-05 00:05 by jpusztai Enjoy Every Sandwich / Joe P. |
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| Poppy Guru Joined: 25/07/2019 Location: GermanyPosts: 486 |
Great! Quite simple but utmost funny!  Wow, a masterpiece!  This as well! That floppotron-guy is really creative! Andre ... such a GURU? | ||||
| jean-yves Newbie Joined: 03/09/2020 Location: United KingdomPosts: 7 |
Thanks for the welcome guys. I had spotted the Welcome tape thread on an earlier visit, so will definitely be downloading and running it when I get the hardware. I have also followed various conversations around what can and can't be achieved. I am in awe of both what the creators of the CMM2 have managed to design/build as well as some of the software written by the community. Impressed that you had a ZX81 kit in North America, Joe P! Well actually also impressed it was a kit fill stop. I've always regretted not having done electronics - I seemed to just miss out at school - my year was the first to have a computer lab, and they switched their focus from the electronics to the programming, as though these are mutually exclusive. I suspect that they simply did not have the staff/budget to teach both, and went with the software side of things. Yes, MMBasic is impressive - certainly one of the better imperative style ones out there. Reminds me a lot of a cross between BBC Basic and QL SuperBasic. I never used GW-Basic, but I understand it's a superset of that? My uses for the CMM2 will probably me mostly casual coding, although I would love to learn the basics of electronics with it and start plugging things in when I am sure I won't brick the device... Also my daughter is doing Computer Science as one of her A-levels (the exams kids take in last year of high school in the UK), and while that is all Python based, I think it would be nice for her to get to play with another language that has more immediate feedback. You never know, if she really gets into it, I might buy her one of her own :) |
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Nimue Guru Joined: 06/08/2020 Location: United KingdomPosts: 420 |
Hello from sunny/wet/wet/wet Wales I'm Nimue a STEM advisor from Wales -- currently using the CMM2 to introduce primary and KS3 teachers to Computer Science - and trying to wean them of Scratch --- plus linking CS to the physical world with the use of basic sensors via the breakouts at the back of the CMM2. Enjoy!!!! Edited 2020-09-05 00:43 by Nimue Entropy is not what it used to be |
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| jean-yves Newbie Joined: 03/09/2020 Location: United KingdomPosts: 7 |
Hi Nimue! Tidy! Interesting - do you get much push back from the teachers? Is the maximite line seen as a viable option? From what I can see, the CMM/CMM2 would be ideal for GCSE level computing. However, I'm not sure that MMBasic would be suitable for the A-level course as they have to do Object-Oriented design/dev, complex data structures and also some SQL and then use those in their assessed coding project. Or at least they do with the exam board my daughter's school is following. My wife's from Porthcawl - I love Wales, although I don't know the north of the country well at all. We are planning a trip there when the pandemic restrictions ease off (so hopefully sometime next year). |
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| RetroJoe Senior Member Joined: 06/08/2020 Location: CanadaPosts: 290 |
I believe this might be his “chef d’oeuvre” on the FLOPPOTRON. Incredibly, he is able to get vibrato and bending effects - it actually sounds like Brian May’s guitar style! Even more amazing is synchronizing the modem tones and noises - pure genius. The smoke machine is the icing on the cake. Sorry for all the spoilers... but I didn’t actually spoil anything :) I think this guy is in Poland - I would love to see the FLOPPOTRON in real life! One more entry in the “Insanely Awesome Hacker Project”, and substantially more “on topic” to the Maximite platform and ethos, is this one. Brilliant and beautiful design and execution. Edited 2020-09-05 01:49 by jpusztai Enjoy Every Sandwich / Joe P. |
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| Poppy Guru Joined: 25/07/2019 Location: GermanyPosts: 486 |
Well now after this I think he is faking! I think the melody track is dubbed or at least supported by some synthesizer in the background. THIS One is more realistic in my opinion ... just judging the sound itself. But apart from that, how can it be generally programmed? Just a matter of PWM on the drives power inputs, switching positive and negative? Andre ... such a GURU? | ||||
| RetroJoe Senior Member Joined: 06/08/2020 Location: CanadaPosts: 290 |
Yes. The Eight-Bit Guy’s CMM2 video (I.e. his second review of the Maximite - the one that convinced me to finally get one :), shows how to do this with the CMM2 I/O. I imagine if you step the motor fast enough, the resulting mechanical whine can be “tuned” to specific musical notes. So, you think the FLOPPOTRON is a hoax, eh? I must admit, the thought did cross my mind, but I’m a conspiracy theorist from way back. I guess that’s why I said I wanted to see it for myself - “Bohemian Rhapsody” does seem too perfect to be real. If it’s a hoax, it’s a very convincing one I.e. even setting up the hoax is a very impressive feat! Edited 2020-09-05 05:01 by jpusztai Enjoy Every Sandwich / Joe P. |
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| Poppy Guru Joined: 25/07/2019 Location: GermanyPosts: 486 |
I think it is not completely a fake, but made up in a way not being obvious to the viewer. It all just sounds a little too smooth to me, but still a great idea and the Floppotron itself is just a great construction doing a great job, but not as clean as it pretends to do. Andre ... such a GURU? | ||||
| JoOngle Regular Member  Joined: 25/07/2020 Location: SwedenPosts: 82 |
It's not a fake. You can do micro-stepping with stepper motors, you can quite literally make up all the notes available on the scale. I'm an old electronics fart, I've heard my scanners and even Commodore 64 floppy disk sing everything from Star wars to Monty. He has to use the scanner in order to create that nice "vibrato" he's producing, because the scanner has this heavy "head" it moves around, and if you slow it down, you will naturally lower the pitch and if you turn it on/off with correct timing, you will have your "vibrato" sound created mechanically. |
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| Poppy Guru Joined: 25/07/2019 Location: GermanyPosts: 486 |
I doubt that he can make those legato slides within one or two tones, all the rest being staccato is clear. So I guess the pure melody track is played by a usual synthesizer using original samples, but planing the waveform. The whole setup is impressive and of course it could play the whole song by itself, but in my opinion not as perfect as it seems to do. But who knows?! Andre ... such a GURU? | ||||
vegipete Guru Joined: 29/01/2013 Location: CanadaPosts: 1132 |
Fake? Not fake? Consider what a speaker is: a coil of wire and a magnet. Changing the current through the coil causes the coil and magnet to move relative to each other. In a speaker, the (heavy) magnet is fixed and the coil moves, and is mounted to a diaphragm so that surrounding air moves too. Now consider what a stepper motor is: a coil of wire and a magnet. The physical layout is different - the coil is fixed and the magnet rotates - and the entire structure is optimized for mechanical rotation, not air displacement but both are fundamentally the same. So it no mystery that a stepper motor can reproduce audio signals. The fidelity won't be good, especially as the frequency goes up, but within those limits, anything is possible. And now I have a new little project to try - connecting a stepper motor to an audio amp. I think I have some junk car stereos around I can afford to wreck in case I don't match 'speaker' impedance properly... Visit Vegipete's *Mite Library for cool programs. |
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| RetroJoe Senior Member Joined: 06/08/2020 Location: CanadaPosts: 290 |
I don’t think that’s how these “floppy drive symphony” things work. The sound is not being produced by the stepper motor coil nor the rotation of the stepper motor per se - it is produced by the vibrations of the drives read/write head moving back and forth on its guide track, at an unnaturally high frequency. I would imagine vintage floppy drives used in this way break pretty quickly from all the mechanical stress. To be honest, it’s the modem that has me stumped. The DTMF tones seem unusually well-tuned and synchronized - maybe there are some low-level hacks you can do with the modem firmware, but IIRC, you couldn’t control a modem to play DTMF tones to a “beat”, and certainly not to a specific musical key. Enjoy Every Sandwich / Joe P. |
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| vegipete Guru Joined: 29/01/2013 Location: CanadaPosts: 1132 |
The stepper driver is sending power pulses to the motor. In the case of full or half steps, this is a square wave. However, the impedance of the system will round all the corners, leaving some sort of signal which is not that far different from a true audio waveform. The key is the pulse frequency. Extra junk attached to the motor just gives more stuff that can vibrate. I have done similar and I used an oscilloscope to measure the output signal, using that to tune the feedrate used to drive the motor. Musical Stepper Yes, some of the sounds are mechanical clacking, from heads hitting end stops or the like but that is different from the continuous tones emitted by the motors. It's been so long since I used a modem that I don't remember what sort of control was possible. It certainly works well in the floppytron. Visit Vegipete's *Mite Library for cool programs. |
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