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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : CMM2 for sale
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palcal Guru  Joined: 12/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1993 |
Why I built this I'll never know because I knew I wouldn't use it. I don't play games and never have. So, it's a fully built and tested CMM2 silicon chip kit and never used. Would prefer to sell it to someone in Aust. for postage reasons. Sell for $100.    "It is better to be ignorant and ask a stupid question than to be plain Stupid and not ask at all" |
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PeteCotton Guru Joined: 13/08/2020 Location: CanadaPosts: 543 |
Palcal, may I can ask what you would like to see on the CMM2 (as opposed to games). I think most of us are programming this as a hobby/challenge, so if you have any preference for the sort of program you would like to see, maybe one of us can help out and produce something useful for you? |
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Grogster Admin Group  Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9610 |
I agree. While the CMM2 is an excellent retro games computer, it is most certainly not ONLY a games machine, and it can do lots of things that are not games related. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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TassyJim Guru Joined: 07/08/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 6283 |
Don't be frightened off by the influx of game programmers. I have never or will ever been a gamer. I do marvel at the graphics and sounds being produced and the pushing the CMM2 to its limits. I am happy with the big screen and using the CMM2 as a front end for data acquisition and instrumentation. The gamers are helping make the CMM2 bigger and better for all uses. Jim VK7JH MMedit |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 4044 |
For example, it can monitor and graph signals onto a decent size screen :) John |
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| palcal Guru Joined: 12/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1993 |
I just don't do that sort of thing, my original B&W maximite has sat in a drawer for years. I work mostly with the 170 backpack and E28 although I have 64,100 and 144 pin versions. Almost always it is for an embedded project. "It is better to be ignorant and ask a stupid question than to be plain Stupid and not ask at all" |
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CaptainBoing Guru Joined: 07/09/2016 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2170 |
best that you sell it then and help to spread the word. Personally, I agree with you, the CMM2 just isn't aimed at what I am doing... I do though, get through shedloads of 28 pin 170s is various guises. That always was my area of interest - interfacing/measuring/reporting/controlling real world stuff... always was. I get a buzz out of the practical stuff. Look over my stuff on FotS and you see it is all "utilitarian". I did write a couple of games in my youth but never really enjoyed it. As a games machine I am sure it is fab and as good as any retro machine but I have MAME. Untouchable, arcade stuff and the odd game of PuzzleBobble goes down very well.  I would really like to see it take off in education. I think it is incredibly reasonably priced, very capable with all it's I/O and could probably re-kindle the lunchbreak room full of nerds writing stuff for themselves just like the 80s and the Beeb. Happy days that spawned an industry. Given the same impetus, opportunity and take-up we might see a resurgence of that creativity. That would be nice. |
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thwill Guru Joined: 16/09/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 4311 |
I completely understand your point of view Palcal, I'm not even sure it qualifies as a games machine, certainly anybody who buys one for the purpose of playing games is going to be sorely disappointed at the moment. Despite their impressiveness Heliblaster, Pacman, half a Defender clone, part of Gauntlet, some of Wolfenstein 3D, some hoary old text adventures and other odds and ends do not make for an irresistable catalogue. There are better options for (retro)gamers - e.g. a Pi running RetroPie. Principally at the moment it seems to be serving as a "toy" for those of use who have or have had professional IT (and electronics) careers and are looking for something on which to do a bit of lightweight/fun development which doesn't have the massive hump to overcome of a modern PC and flabby set of libraries. For me it also helps that it is sufficiently limited to provide some interesting challenges and to level the playing field as to what can be achieved by the best programmers vs. those of more meagre talents. In more than technical ways it reminds me of the 80's microcomputer which didn't really have any purpose it was just something that was technically possible and thus became available to the general public. Ultimately a large proportion of the users decided that they were for playing games on. Beyond that they served to create the computer literate workforce who are now in their late 30's and 40's and populating the mid and high levels of todays software development industry. As the Captain identifies if the CMM2 has a "place" beyond some old-ish folks having fun then it lies in education, but I can't see that happening, in the UK there is no current equivalent of the BBC Computer Literacy Project and the computer science staff in schools are apparently under-resourced and de-skilled. YMMV, Tom MMBasic for Linux, Game*Mite, CMM2 Welcome Tape, Creaky old text adventures |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9610 |
I can respect that.  I also go through WAY more 170 chips then CMM2 units, but that is cos I have standardized on using the 170 for pretty much all my embedded stuff now. I am sure some happy Aussie will collect it from you.  Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| MauroXavier Guru Joined: 06/03/2016 Location: BrazilPosts: 303 |
I'm just enjoying the opportunity of this post, what I wrote below isn't focused on any person, representing only my personal opinion about the CMM2, not about the people. I see the CMM2 as a complete "retro machine". If we remember about the C64, Amiga, ZX Spectrum, Atari ST, and others, it's very easy to perceive these computers as "game machines", as the major program catalog is games. This doesn't mean that these old machines don't have applications, as word texts, spreadsheets, music editors, and so on. The main difference is that in the background of these machines existed businesses involved, with companies making money with the software, but with the CMM2, it depends on the community hands to make any software, but we are only in the beginning! I have no doubt that the Raspberry Pi is a better choice in many ways, in the past, even I taught courses about it, but with my experience with the first CMM and now with the CMM2, for me, I have a better "retro experience" with any CMM version. I know that if we use the Raspberry with some bare metal emulator or with the BBC Basic that have an instant boot we have some "retro experience", but for me wasn't so good as the CMM2. Like the Raspberry Pi, the CMM2 has pins and software and hardware implementations that make it easier for the life of engineers and enthusiasts to create an embedded system, opening the possibility to develop a great software library. In the educational area, it will depend on the community and for the personal objective of each one. I believe that CMM2 is a good platform for educational purposes, but for sure not all agree with me. It's too early to affirm the CMM2 as only a self-contained single retro game machine, it depends on what you need to use it. The CMM2 has the flexibility to make many things, use it as you wish, but I recommend that no one keeps depending on any people to make it what you want, even Peter or Geoff. But if you don't see any sense in all of this or will not use it, sell it for sure as other people will be happy to buy it. Edited 2020-10-21 22:21 by MauroXavier |
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| JoOngle Regular Member  Joined: 25/07/2020 Location: SwedenPosts: 82 |
I SO AGREE with you on this  The use as an "Games capable device" just shows the POWER and USER friendliness of a computer like this. I envision many weird uses for the CMM2 besides my passion for testing gaming ideas. The thing about CMM2 is that you can just "turn it on" right there and then instead of messing with an underlying OS that needs constant maintenance and updating, not to mention the HOARDE of libraries and sub-programs it constantly needs just to be up to date. Another good thing with CMMS2 is the standardization. With todays computers we lost the ability to just share stuff with everyone, now if you make something, you gotta make sure that the end user also have the same hardware as you do - With the CMM2 this is a no brainer, just load-and-go! And if you wanna make changes to the software, no reverse engineering needed, just jump into basic and alter or add the code as you wish, what more could you ask for? Personally I envision it as a hefty Radio-Amateur device, where I can have it in a rack together with radios, to make it Encode/Decode RTTY / Packet / Weather Fax, and just have it "turn on" when the radio is turned on, no need to boot a PC and fire up the right software. And whenever I need to change, it's so easy to do so - CMM2 is a worthy "Test instrument" in it's own right too! |
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| robert.rozee Guru Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 2442 |
not wanting to lead thing further away from Palcal's original intention of this thread, but... if someone produced a PCB that: (1) sat neatly on top of the CMM2 case, with a cable that looped round to the 40-pin header on the back; (2) had onboard buffers for analog input, (3) opto-couplers for digital input, (4) a few relays for control, (5) and breakout of serial and I2C. (5) these I/O all brought out to screw terminals down the left and right sides of the PCB for easy attachment to the outside world... ... then i believe the CMM2 could make quite a nice little data acquisition system and controller for use in both the science classroom as well as in the lab. something that is sort-of-a-replacement for the likes of the HP 80 series controllers from the 1980's: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_series_80 quoting from the above source: [BYTE magazine wrote] "we were impressed with the performance ... the graphics alone make this an attractive, albeit not inexpensive, alternate to existing small systems on the market ... it is our guess that many personal computer experimenters and hackers will want this machine". the difference with the CMM2 is that it is inexpensive. one could also have a set of standardized 'expanders' that attach back to the CMM2 via serial or I2C. these would be very low cost, consisting of a satellite MX170 or similar, and provide additional banks of: analog I/O, relay control, precision voltage measurement, etc. being standardized, the software control for these would be incorporated within the CMM2 firmware. cheers, rob :-) Edited 2020-10-22 00:06 by robert.rozee |
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CircuitGizmos Guru Joined: 08/09/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 1427 |
This can be realized through the "HAT"s of the Raspberry Pi.   Micromites and Maximites! - Beginning Maximite |
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| Volhout Guru Joined: 05/03/2018 Location: NetherlandsPosts: 5091 |
The pi hat connector is a great find, and allows for easy interfacing. Robert suggests a custom board that has a variety of interfaces that are robust (classroom proof). Even the plc hats for the pi are limitted, having only digital inputs and outputs. Maybe we could desgn something that is classroom proof, and to commercialize it, make a leaflet (online) with educational applications. That may get you into schools.... With robust I mean: the interface should survive 230Vac connected to a digital input, or even an I2c pin if exposed. Without danger for the student. Edited 2020-10-22 06:13 by Volhout PicomiteVGA PETSCII ROBOTS |
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| palcal Guru Joined: 12/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1993 |
I was thinking that if it doesn't sell I will donate it to a high school in town if they were interested. "It is better to be ignorant and ask a stupid question than to be plain Stupid and not ask at all" |
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led-bloon Senior Member  Joined: 21/12/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 207 |
Why didn't I think of that .. must get onto my local school and see how many projects they are doing with 230Vac .. exposed! If none, I will suggest they should start straight away!  led Miss you George |
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| busa Regular Member Joined: 12/02/2015 Location: AustraliaPosts: 81 |
Hi @palcal, If you haven't sold it I would be interested in buying it off you. Regards, Busa |
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| palcal Guru Joined: 12/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1993 |
Ok busa it's yours, send me a PM "It is better to be ignorant and ask a stupid question than to be plain Stupid and not ask at all" |
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| Volhout Guru Joined: 05/03/2018 Location: NetherlandsPosts: 5091 |
Sarcasm aside. When students play with electronics, incidents will happen. Exposed 230Vac may be guarded by teachers, but 60V or 80Vdc for drone power is definitely not. @Pascal: I understand your feelings. Reason I don't own a CMM2 yet. I would like to use it for the embedded applications (hence my response to Robert Rozee's proposal). I am using MX170's now, PicAxes, Arduino's, and my step-up on the roadmap was going to be a Pi zero, but Picromite is EOL. Solved my last "step up" project with a CG CMM1 and Picaxe 08M2 combination (RC air combat). Next project I may look towards CMM2. Volhout Edited 2020-10-22 16:13 by Volhout PicomiteVGA PETSCII ROBOTS |
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| palcal Guru Joined: 12/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1993 |
I have started using ESP8266 with Annexe basic, being able to send emails and the web page feature I find very useful. I have an alarm on my workshop that I can switch on with my mobile phone and it sends me an email if it triggers so I can get a neighbour to investigate. "It is better to be ignorant and ask a stupid question than to be plain Stupid and not ask at all" |
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