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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : User Manual for the Picomite (draft)

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Mixtel90

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Posted: 05:49pm 30 Sep 2021
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As a follow up...
If only one WS2812 is used:
BITBANG WS2812 type, pin, 1, value
is valid. No array is needed.
eg. BITBANG WS2812 B, 20, 1, &h101010

The 5mm versions that I got from Pimorini have the bit arrangement:

First bit                                                       Last bit
G7 G6 G5 G4 G3 G2 G1 G0 R7 R6 R5 R4 R3 R2 R1 R0 B7 B6 B5 B4 B3 B2 B1 B0


so BITBANG WS2812 B,20,1,RGB(magenta) is cyan and vice versa!
-- Mick

Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini
 
Poppy

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Joined: 25/07/2019
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Posted: 06:15pm 30 Sep 2021
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  Mixtel90 said  As a follow up...
If only one WS2812 is used:
BITBANG WS2812 type, pin, 1, value
is valid. No array is needed.
eg. BITBANG WS2812 B, 20, 1, &h101010

The 5mm versions that I got from Pimorini have the bit arrangement:

First bit                                                       Last bit
G7 G6 G5 G4 G3 G2 G1 G0 R7 R6 R5 R4 R3 R2 R1 R0 B7 B6 B5 B4 B3 B2 B1 B0


so BITBANG WS2812 B,20,1,RGB(magenta) is cyan and vice versa!


Thanks, I was just struggling with exactly this issue and you solved it for me!

Andre ... such a GURU?
 
Mixtel90

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Posted: 08:25pm 30 Sep 2021
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I found it interesting that red & green are reversed. Same part number, different packages. :)  The 5mm ones don't match the data sheet either (that's R-G-B, not G-R-B).
-- Mick

Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini
 
Mixtel90

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Posted: 10:07pm 02 Oct 2021
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Geoff:
Might it be an idea to add something like this to the editor section of the manual?
Applicable to Tera Term under Windows.

Useful if you like to keep a library of useful subroutines or copy some from other programs.

You can copy and paste blocks of text from the terminal screen into a text file using the Windows clipboard.

To copy from en external text file into the MMBasic editor you need to set the line delay in Tera Term to 200ms (the default is 10ms). (Setup/Additional Settings/Copy & Paste). Then you can use the Windows clipboard to copy the text, and use Alt+V to paste it into your program at the current cursor position. If your file has indented lines they will mess the process up, but this can be overcome by having one or two characters (space or character) to the right of the cursor before pasting.
-- Mick

Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini
 
panky

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Posted: 04:11am 03 Oct 2021
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Geoff,

Field$ shows up as a function in LIST FUNCTIONS (and works) but does not appear in the Functions list in the manual - have I missed it somewhere?

Doug.
... almost all of the Maximites, the MicromMites, the MM Extremes, the ArmMites, the PicoMite and loving it!
 
Geoffg

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Posted: 04:52am 03 Oct 2021
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Thanks Doug, it just got lost.
I will fix it for the next release.
Geoff
Geoff Graham - http://geoffg.net
 
Poppy

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Posted: 07:38am 03 Oct 2021
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One suggestion if I have not missed it reading the manual ...

What about explaining all error-messages for those who do not directly understand their meaning lacking experience? ... another Appendix?!

Not really important but probably at last to bring it to a complete round figure.
Andre ... such a GURU?
 
Mixtel90

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Posted: 08:39am 03 Oct 2021
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That was a lot easier in Dr. Li-Chen Wang's Palo Alto Tiny BASIC (1976), Poppy. :)
WHAT? = It doesn't understand what you want to do - Syntax error.
HOW? = It understands what, but not how - Runtime error.
SORRY = It can't do it - Out of memory.
And that was it for the error messages. :)

I'm not sure you could *explain* them as the same message can occur for several reasons depending on context. I'm not sure that even listing them would be very helpful - having a list without explanation might be even worse.
Edited 2021-10-03 18:47 by Mixtel90
-- Mick

Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini
 
Geoffg

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Posted: 08:42am 03 Oct 2021
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Hmm, error messages are supposed to be self explanatory.  

The other issue is that if the message is vague it is because the interpreter is lost and that is hard to explain.  A good example is "Syntax error" which basically means "Something is wrong but I don't know exactly what!".

Geoff
Geoff Graham - http://geoffg.net
 
Tinine
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Posted: 05:49pm 04 Oct 2021
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. The "100,000 lines/sec" is at what clock speed?

I'd test myself but my Pico hasn't arrived yet.
 
Poppy

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Posted: 07:09pm 04 Oct 2021
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  Mixtel90 said  That was a lot easier in Dr. Li-Chen Wang's Palo Alto Tiny BASIC (1976), Poppy. :)
WHAT? = It doesn't understand what you want to do - Syntax error.
HOW? = It understands what, but not how - Runtime error.
SORRY = It can't do it - Out of memory.
And that was it for the error messages. :)





This literally would be easier, because it does not give a basis for interpretation.

Just imagine a rookie tries something out and gets an error-message, now he tries to interpret assuming there is a concrete hint how to do it right but still not understanding the basics good enough yet.
If there was just "error in line XX" without any explanation ... being a clear cut.

I will be back later with some examples that I assume not to be making it easier for noobs.
Andre ... such a GURU?
 
Mixtel90

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Posted: 08:55pm 04 Oct 2021
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It's not easy. When the interpreter can't do something it throws an error message. A lot of the time (say, a syntax error) it's easy, but what about attempting to use a COM port that hasn't been opened? The interpreter can say "COM x not open" but it can't give you the line number (which could be umpteen lines back) where the problem actually is because it's got past there. The user has to show some intelligence in cases like this. Tiny BASIC (if it had known about COM ports!) would have just said "HOW?", so not all that helpful at all. :)

A compiler uses multiple passes so is often capable of finding and logging errors with more accuracy, but that's not the case here.
Edited 2021-10-05 06:57 by Mixtel90
-- Mick

Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini
 
matherp
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Joined: 11/12/2012
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Posted: 09:49pm 04 Oct 2021
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  Quote  I will be back later with some examples that I assume not to be making it easier for noobs.


Please don't bother. There are 1522 calls to the error routine currently in the Pico5Mite code. It is completely unrealistic to either create a list or explanation of them all or to make any major change to the approach
 
Poppy

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Posted: 05:09am 05 Oct 2021
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  matherp said  
Please don't bother.


No Problem! No need to argue.

  Poppy said  
Not really important but probably at last to bring it to a complete round figure.


Well, but "bother"?!

Within the usual translation to my language a quite offensive expression!


Thanks to all others for respectfully replying to this.
Just an idea and not really important!

Andre ... such a GURU?
 
Mixtel90

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Posted: 07:51am 05 Oct 2021
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Part of the problem, Poppy, isn't with MMBasic at all, it's because finding a good book on BASIC programming isn't easy now. A lot of error messages are pretty generic and a lot of others are easily guessed, but the new user doesn't often get to see the worked examples now so he/she doesn't know what to expect.

I have a lovely old copy of Illustrating BASIC by Donald Alcock here, with a price sticker of 2.25 UKP on the back. Amazon still sell it, but the "stay flat" spiral binding has gone and it's now gone up to 23.99 UKP! It's old-fashioned now (1977 - it pre-dates most of the BASIC home computers), but is probably still one of the best introductions to BASIC.
-- Mick

Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini
 
Poppy

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Posted: 07:59am 05 Oct 2021
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  Mixtel90 said  Part of the problem, Poppy, isn't with MMBasic at all, it's because finding a good book on BASIC programming isn't easy now. A lot of error messages are pretty generic and a lot of others are easily guessed, but the new user doesn't often get to see the worked examples now so he/she doesn't know what to expect.


Thanks Mick for elaborating.

But really no need I already got your point and it actually is not different to my opinion.

That even is the reason why I am pointing on this issue.

  Mixtel90 said  I have a lovely old copy of Illustrating BASIC by Donald Alcock here, with a price sticker of 2.25 UKP on the back. Amazon still sell it, but the "stay flat" spiral binding has gone and it's now gone up to 23.99 UKP! It's old-fashioned now (1977 - it pre-dates most of the BASIC home computers), but is probably still one of the best introductions to BASIC.


I do collect old BASIC books myself just for that reason, but I have not heard about this one, I will try to find it!

Thanks, this is the support I need! (No criticism meant to all others!)



PS:
Got it.
Interesting this whole "Illustating ..."-Series by him!
Edited 2021-10-05 18:06 by Poppy
Andre ... such a GURU?
 
circuit
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Joined: 10/01/2016
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 103
Posted: 08:35am 05 Oct 2021
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  Poppy said  
  matherp said  
Please don't bother.


No Problem! No need to argue.

  Poppy said  
Not really important but probably at last to bring it to a complete round figure.


Well, but "bother"?!

Within the usual translation to my language a quite offensive expression!


Thanks to all others for respectfully replying to this.
Just an idea and not really important!


Poppy, I am just stepping in to reassure you that the expression used was anything BUT offensive.  Something is most definitely lost in translation.  When I say "please don't bother" the intention and meaning is "please do not trouble yourself to do this" and it is very much imploring the person not to spend time on something that may not be as worthwhile as the person might perceive it to be.  

I read the post as a very well-meaning, polite and well-intentioned intervention that simply indicates that the effort you would spend may not enjoy an equal reward in the outcome.  It was, indeed, most respectful
 
palcal

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Posted: 04:42am 04 Nov 2021
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BACKLIGHT command is not listed in the commands list.
"It is better to be ignorant and ask a stupid question than to be plain Stupid and not ask at all"
 
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