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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : Laguage keyboards for MMBasic for Windows. Help needed

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matherp
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Joined: 11/12/2012
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 10315
Posted: 11:58am 29 Jan 2022
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If you have a non-UK keyboard and would like it to work properly I need your help.

Attached is a diagnostic version of the software. When you press any key you will see a number appear in angle brackets together with the character that number translates to on a UK keyboard.


MMBasic.zip


Mu understanding is that everything works properly except the special characters so what I need from you is a report as follows:

Specify the language keyboard tested
For each ascii character that doesn't work as you want
The ascii code you want
The number the firmware reports
VERY IMPORTANTLY The state of the shift and alt keys that you would normally use to get that ascii character

NB: the firmware will only ever support ascii so any character that doesn't have an ascii code won't be supported.

If someone gets in ahead of you with a specific language then please check their results and only post if there is an error.

I will need a US keyboard report where there should be only a few incorrect keys

The reason that this is necessary is that the firmware is operating at a very low level (key presses and releases). This has the disadvantage that I need to manage the mapping but has the advantage that I will be able to support the KEYDOWN function as per the CMM2
 
Tinine
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Joined: 30/03/2016
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1646
Posted: 12:30pm 29 Jan 2022
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Never tried this but if you select a particular keyboard language as the default, can the on-screen keyboard emulator provide the required info?


Craig
 
matherp
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Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 10315
Posted: 12:37pm 29 Jan 2022
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  Quote  Never tried this but if you select a particular keyboard language as the default, can the on-screen keyboard emulator provide the required info?


Possibly but I'm not prepared to install multiple languages on my PC and do all the slog work
 
andreas

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Joined: 07/12/2020
Location: Germany
Posts: 226
Posted: 02:25pm 29 Jan 2022
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  matherp said  If you have a non-UK keyboard and would like it to work properly I need your help.

Attached is a diagnostic version of the software. When you press any key you will see a number appear in angle brackets together with the character that number translates to on a UK keyboard.


MMBasic.zip


Mu understanding is that everything works properly except the special characters so what I need from you is a report as follows:

Specify the language keyboard tested
For each ascii character that doesn't work as you want
The ascii code you want
The number the firmware reports
VERY IMPORTANTLY The state of the shift and alt keys that you would normally use to get that ascii character

NB: the firmware will only ever support ascii so any character that doesn't have an ascii code won't be supported.

If someone gets in ahead of you with a specific language then please check their results and only post if there is an error.

I will need a US keyboard report where there should be only a few incorrect keys

The reason that this is necessary is that the firmware is operating at a very low level (key presses and releases). This has the disadvantage that I need to manage the mapping but has the advantage that I will be able to support the KEYDOWN function as per the CMM2


Hello Peter,

for the german keyboard, I found these keys (may be not complete, but the most importand)


-andreas
 
twofingers

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Joined: 02/06/2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 1593
Posted: 02:38pm 29 Jan 2022
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@Andreas: A friendly, respectful note: It is not always necessary to post a full citation. I hope you get this the way it's meant ...
Regards
Michael
causality ≠ correlation ≠ coincidence
 
andreas

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Joined: 07/12/2020
Location: Germany
Posts: 226
Posted: 02:45pm 29 Jan 2022
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  Quote  I hope you get this the way it's meant ...


Thank you, but what is then the meaning of the "Quote" top right link?
-andreas
 
twofingers

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Joined: 02/06/2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 1593
Posted: 02:55pm 29 Jan 2022
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  andreas said  ...
Thank you, but what is then the meaning of the "Quote" top right link?
-andreas
This is not a prompt, just optional... and you can (reasonably) shorten/edit it.
... ist von mir aber nur als Hilfe gemeint! Ich moechte aber auch nicht als Oberlehrer wahrgenommen werden ...  
Edited 2022-01-30 01:00 by twofingers
causality ≠ correlation ≠ coincidence
 
lizby
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Joined: 17/05/2016
Location: United States
Posts: 3378
Posted: 02:57pm 29 Jan 2022
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I use "Quote" and then delete all except what is needed to provide context.
PicoMite, Armmite F4, SensorKits, MMBasic Hardware, Games, etc. on fruitoftheshed
 
twofingers

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Joined: 02/06/2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 1593
Posted: 04:08pm 29 Jan 2022
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I found a useful tool: "Keycode.com". It displays the ASCII, ANSI, Hex, and Key code of each key pressed.

https://www.heise.de/download/product/keycode-12221

I hope it helps.
I just don't know how to present the results... an Excel spreadsheet? A picture of the keyboard? We had a similar mapping problem for the CMM2 before.
causality ≠ correlation ≠ coincidence
 
Mixtel90

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Joined: 05/10/2019
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7938
Posted: 05:36pm 29 Jan 2022
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Peter doesn't want a full list for your keyboard. Only where it differs from the UK codes shown in the diagnostic version of MMBasic. It's no use sending him codes that are non-ASCII, like the UK ponds sign or the euro symbol, as they haven't got an ASCII code and won't be supported.
Mick

Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini
Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs
 
twofingers

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Joined: 02/06/2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 1593
Posted: 06:12pm 29 Jan 2022
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  Mixtel90 said  Peter doesn't want a full list for your keyboard. ...

Thanks, but I understood that already correctly. But I think it would be about 20 or more cases for a German keyboard. Some keys ("<>") produce no response.
causality ≠ correlation ≠ coincidence
 
Plasmamac

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Joined: 31/01/2019
Location: Germany
Posts: 579
Posted: 06:43pm 29 Jan 2022
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anyone works for the german keyboard?
Plasma
 
twofingers

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Joined: 02/06/2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 1593
Posted: 06:51pm 29 Jan 2022
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Finding out the codes its not the problem. I just don't know how best to present it so that Peter can use it.
causality ≠ correlation ≠ coincidence
 
andreas

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Joined: 07/12/2020
Location: Germany
Posts: 226
Posted: 07:00pm 29 Jan 2022
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if there would be an external "settings" file outside MMBasic.exe then everybody could configure her/his own keyboard layout.

-andreas
Edited 2022-01-30 05:01 by andreas
 
Plasmamac

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Joined: 31/01/2019
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Posts: 579
Posted: 07:16pm 29 Jan 2022
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@Andreas    no cmm2-style
Plasma
 
andreas

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Joined: 07/12/2020
Location: Germany
Posts: 226
Posted: 07:24pm 29 Jan 2022
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@[Plasmamac
  Quote  no cmm2-style
- you mean OPTION AUTORUN ON and a autorun.bas? - nice idea! I like the CMM2 and how it works!  
 
Pluto
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Joined: 09/06/2017
Location: Finland
Posts: 375
Posted: 07:47pm 29 Jan 2022
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These are the keys that need some fixing.



As you can see there are several differences between what MMBasic displays and what is shown on the keyboard keys. I do not think that all need to be "translated". Indicated the necessary ones in the table.

The "<, >, |" key has no action at all in MMBasic.

Hopefully you can interpret my table. If not please advice me how to present.

/Fred
 
twofingers

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Joined: 02/06/2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 1593
Posted: 08:29pm 29 Jan 2022
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Correction table for my German keyboard (MMBasic V5.07.03pa3)

"^" = Shift
"^^"= AltGr

MMBasic V5.07.03pa3

Ascii(MMBasic)
92  should be 94  = ^
^86  should be ^59 = ;
^84  should be ^58 = :
89  should be 35  = #
^89  should be ^39 = '
85  should be 43  = +
^85  should be ^42 = *
^^85 should be ^^126 = ~
93  should be 180 =  (suggestion: ^39 = ')
^93  should be ^96 = `
91  should be 223 =  (suggestion: 92 = \)
^91  should be ^63 = ?
^27  should be ^61 = =
^^27 should be 125 = }
^36  should be ^41 = )
^^36 should be  93 = ]
^35  should be ^40 = (
^^35 should be  91 = [
^34  should be ^47 = /
^^34 should be 123 = {
^33  should be  38 = &
^30  should be 167 =  (suggestion: ???)
^^64 should be  64 = @

90,94,88 (are german Umlauts)

The key ("\"+"|") below the "A" and to the right of the left shift key gives no answer.

Should give:
60,^62,^^124

Work in progress. I must have missed something ...  

@Admin the board software multiplies the backslash \ if I edit my post.
Edited 2022-01-30 07:47 by twofingers
causality ≠ correlation ≠ coincidence
 
TassyJim

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Joined: 07/08/2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 6283
Posted: 08:29pm 29 Jan 2022
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On my US keyboard (logitech)

94       # should be ' (single tick)
94 shift ~           "
90       '           ` (backtick)
90 shift @           ~
29 shift "           @


I have a different layout US keyboard that we had 'fun' with for the CMM2.

It is HP small form-factor US keyboard.
It has a second key for pipe-backslash |\ located to the left of Z. There is no response in the test program. The key to the right of keyboard is correct giving |\

In the CMM2 software there is a line at the end of the keyboard maps:
92,124    //USB_HID_KEYBOARD_KEYPAD_KEYBOARD_NON_US_FORWARD_SLASH_AND_PIPE           = 0x64,


I think this was the culprit.

Jim
Edited 2022-01-30 07:15 by TassyJim
VK7JH
MMedit
 
goc30

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Joined: 12/04/2017
Location: France
Posts: 435
Posted: 02:26am 30 Jan 2022
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my config : French keyboard AZERTY





keyboard.zip
Edited 2022-01-30 12:31 by goc30
 
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