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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : CPU question...(i3 Intel)
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Grogster Admin Group  Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9610 |
I got given a job today, where someone had tried to build their own PC out of parts. All parts are new, but they could not make it even power up. Nor could I. Back at the workshop, I started pulling things out to isolate the issue. When you push the power button, the PSU does not even start, nor does the CPU fan. I tested the power button to make sure it was working - it is. Disconnected the PSU and connected a temporary one on the bench, and this temp PSU starts up(and so now, does the CPU fan), but the board does not - it just beeps five times at me, and looking up the beep codes for the Gigabyte motherboard they used, that means "CPU error". I checked the CPU was correctly seated - it appeared to be. THEN I noticed that they had plugged in the PCIe 2x8 header, into the CPU power connector on the motherboard. The PCIe and CPU 2x4 connectors have different wiring, so I am wondering if they have killed the CPU by putting the wrong power connector on the mainboard? I am thinking perhaps not, as the system would not even start at all, so the PSU probably detected there was a problem with the PICe plug being in the CPU power socket, so never started. That is my hope anyway. CPU is an i3 10th gen LGA1200 type, but I don't have any of those spare on the shelf that I can try - I would have to buy another CPU to test this theory, but I want to be sure I am on the right track with this before I do that. LGA1200 socket feels odd. None of the little spring-pins are bent or anything, but when you put the CPU in this socket, it does not "Feel" like it is actually touching the pins - it seems like the CPU bottoms out on the plastic socket, and is not touching the pins. It just does not "Feel" right. Normally, you would expect a LITTLE bit of spring-y resistance if you push the top of the CPU, as it will spring back up on the pins etc until you close the clamp. So that is odd also. What are the members thoughts as to the above? Do you think they have cooked or otherwise killed the CPU? I am inclined to think so, as it probably would not have liked having the wrong connector on there, but I am open to comments on this. Removing the CPU and powering the board results in no beeps at all, so that almost suggests that the CPU is making contact OK with the socket, but now it is dead...  Edited 2022-04-01 15:43 by Grogster Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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Mixtel90 Guru  Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 7937 |
I'm not sure that the power sockets go to the CPU at all nowadays. There's a row of voltage regulators (switching type, IIRC) under heatsinks that drop the voltage to 1V8, I think. I suspect they will offer some protection. YMMV (Your Motherboard May Vary). Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| Tinine Guru Joined: 30/03/2016 Location: United KingdomPosts: 1646 |
Hey Graeme I just happen to be looking at ATX power supplies because I have used the ATX-Pico type with my mites. They provide everything that I need; 3.3v, 5v, +12v, -12v. A couple of the pins...I'm not absolutely sure what they do but it might be worth checking before going-off on a tangent.   Craig |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 7937 |
I've seen this a lot, using PC power supplies as general purpose ones. It's not something I would recommend unless you need the current for stepper motors or something as there is no current limiting. It's either there or not - and it takes quite a bit of load to shut down the supply. Having said that, I have one with terminals on it in the shed just in case... :) The extra four pins on the V2 connector are often on a 2x2 connector that fits on the end of the 20-pin one. IIRC I once did that. I don't remember it killing anything - just refusing to start. Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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CaptainBoing Guru Joined: 07/09/2016 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2170 |
https://www.computerhope.com/beep.htm I think that means "process[or] error" |
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| CaptainBoing Guru Joined: 07/09/2016 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2170 |
It is a couple of years since I did this but I remember the CPU did just drop into the socket and was even "waggly" by a fraction of a mm until the clamp lever was folded down and secured, I wouldn't be concerned. I got one as a GP PSU in my shed with a breakout board that brings all the voltages to screw post terminals. Similar but not exactly the same as this. Mounted on the shelf edge above the bench and feeds into my 2.500V and 6.144000MHz 0.1ppm TCXO precision reference modules, standard voltages and calibration standards all on a single switch. Very handy. I also have a 12V PSU from a Dell R910 which will deliver a mighty 82A (!)... yup a 1KW 12V supply. Had to dig around a bit for the pinout and connections to get that working but it does... now all I need is a problem for the solution  Edited 2022-04-01 19:00 by CaptainBoing |
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| Tinine Guru Joined: 30/03/2016 Location: United KingdomPosts: 1646 |
I was referring to the "Pico" type They can be had in 24V and 12V DC input. In my case, a beefy 24v DC is always available  Craig |
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| zeitfest Guru Joined: 31/07/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 581 |
Check the separate 12v supply is connected OK. The standard ATX supply plug/socket powers the auxiliaries etc but if the chunky 12v (separate cable 2x2 or 2x4) is not connected the self-check prevents the CPU start. ed- errm that is not supposed to be possible so I guess they did a bit of rewiring... good luck  Edited 2022-04-01 19:29 by zeitfest |
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| KD5ZXG Regular Member  Joined: 21/01/2022 Location: United StatesPosts: 53 |
Borrow an older CPU to update the motherboard BIOS. Also keep in mind, some don't have integrated graphics. Edited 2022-04-01 20:27 by KD5ZXG |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 7937 |
I'd go back to the motherboard manual and check that the board, CPU (including the version) and RAM are genuinely compatible. You never know with a computer that hasn't run. You may have to go to the Gigabyte web site to get the latest compatibility lists. Do a BIOS reset too (using the link on the motherboard if there is one - remove the battery first if possible). It's not unknown for a new motherboard to have incorrect settings. Then try a boot up with just the CPU. You should get a memory failure error, but it should be possible to get into the BIOS. If all else fails, try ebay for a CPU that the documentation says *is* compatible. At that age it shouldn't cost a lot as people will be trying to get rid of them. I got an almost top end i5 for not a lot. Remember though, that it *could* be a dead motherboard and it's also possible that the manual has uncorrected errors too! Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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TassyJim Guru Joined: 07/08/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 6283 |
If you haven't done so yet, try with the ram removed. Disclaimer: it is 15+ years since i have had to diagnose PC's and things have moved along a little bit... Jim VK7JH MMedit |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9610 |
Thanks for all the replies chums - I appreciate it.  I looked up the Gigabyte supported CPU list here. The CPU they are using is an Intel "i3-10105F, 3.7GHz, 6MB Cache, LGA1200" According to the list, this CPU is not supported without an add-on graphics card?  The "N/A" in the graphics column is defined at the top of the list as "Not support", so I think I need to add a graphics card before the board will start, as this processor appears to JUST be a processor and has no integrated GPU so the video sub-system cannot be started, therefore....CPU error. Failing that, I think I need to get a CPU that HAS an integrated GPU, and that will probably solve the problem I think. I expect they got the i3 they have, as it was the cheapest i3 they could find new, but that might have caught them out there! Stay tuned for more updates. EDIT: I can get an Intel Pentium Gold processor in LGA1200 for about the same price as the i3 they got, but the Pentium Gold DOES have an integrated GPU, and it IS on the supported CPU list, so I think I might just try plopping one of those in the board instead.  Thoughts? EDIT: Found a Gigabyte PCIe graphics card, and plopped that in there hoping that would wake things up, but nope - same five beeps. Was hoping that would have got things going. Only thing to try now, is different CPU, as it seems this one is simply not supported based on the screen-shot of the CPU list above. Bugger.  Edited 2022-04-02 10:10 by Grogster Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| zeitfest Guru Joined: 31/07/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 581 |
Looking at the mobo here there is a 12v 2x4 CPU power socket (labelled 1), there should be an appropriate cable and PSU. If that is not connected the mobo will give you the five beeps as the CPU will not fire up. The normal ATX connector is separate, on the right hand side of the image. I think the mobo in this case has default graphics i/o built-in so it should be ok. The next error will be another beep, no OS. |
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| al18 Senior Member  Joined: 06/07/2019 Location: United StatesPosts: 228 |
Grogster, I think you nailed it. I googled that chip and found: Does Intel Core i3 10105F have graphics? This processor does not have integrated graphics, you will need a separate graphics card. Edited 2022-04-02 10:50 by al18 |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9610 |
YES - have the CPU power connector in place - 2x4 pin yellow and black wires for CPU power. Has always been connected, all I get are beeps. More research confirms that the i3 CPU they put in it, does NOT have an internal GPU, so the system probably is complaining via beeps, as it cannot find a video sub-system to start. As there is no PCIe card, the board defaults to expecting a GPU as part of the CPU, and as there is no GPU on the i3 F suffix, I am getting the "CPU error" beep code, although, it is technically a 'I can't find a video sub-system to start' error code in this case. With that in mind, I have ordered a GeForce GT 710 PCIe graphics card to plug into the system and see if I get lucky that way. I found an old GeFORCE 210 PCIe card, but all I got were beeps with that one too, but I have a feeling it is simply too old a graphics card, but it was all I could find on the shelf. If the board still refuses to POST with the new graphics card in it, then I think I must definitely have a dead motherboard. I welcome any comments on my logic to this point, but I have tried everything else other then a different CPU that does indeed have an embedded GPU as well. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| zeitfest Guru Joined: 31/07/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 581 |
I think you're right - found this Apparently the mb initial setting is preset for a UEFI graphics start. Once it has been started the settings can be altered to use CMS. The mb will then boot and run with the i3 F ok and the UEFI graphics card is not needed. Hmm. |
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| al18 Senior Member Joined: 06/07/2019 Location: United StatesPosts: 228 |
On Amazon, the i3-10105F costs $87 and does not have integrated graphics. The equivalent that includes integrated graphics is the i3-10100 which costs $103 |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 7937 |
It might be cheaper to get a different CPU in the same family and a new motherboard! The LGA1200 chips are expensive. This was an unfortunate combination. Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9610 |
@ zeitfest - Interesting short little thread, but yeah, I agree - madness to have that configuration as factory default. @ al18 & Mixtel90 - i3 F variant was all they could get at the low-cost end of the market so they told me. Not sure how accurate that is, but with a global silicon chip shortage, I could probably believe that they could not get the EXACT processor that they wanted, as it would not have been in stock. Mick: Yeah, my thoughts too, but they ain't gonna entertain that at this point, having spent what they have spent so far already. I am REASONABLY confident that the GT710 graphics card will HOPEFULLY allow the machine to POST. According to what I can find online, the GT710 is UEFI compatible, so it SHOULD co-exist fine with the i3 F CPU. SHOULD..... That card, if it works OK, will be a good thing, as they can then run up to three monitors off it if they want to. Onboard allows three also, but the Pentium Gold CPU that has built-in GPU only supports two monitors, so this could still end up being a good thing in the end - if I can get the bloody board to POST!  Funny thing is, it's been a while since I built a machine out of component bits myself. These days, I tend to go directly to the Intel NUC's for workstation machines, as all this is sorted at the factory for you, and you just need to feed them a little RAM and an SSD, and away they go. None of this fuffing around. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| zeitfest Guru Joined: 31/07/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 581 |
Did the GT170 fire it up ? |
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