 Notice. New forum software under development. It's going to miss a few functions and look a bit ugly for a while, but I'm working on it full time now as the old forum was too unstable. Couple days, all good. If you notice any issues, please contact me. |
Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : I'm now a Committed Follower
Page 1 of 2   |
|||||
| Author | Message | ||||
Rickard5 Guru  Joined: 31/03/2022 Location: United StatesPosts: 463 |
OK so the Other day I was at our Local Micro Center to meet some friends for Lunch, and they had Just got in a shipment of Raspberry Pi Picos, and I had a bunch of Rainchecks from when Microcenter had them on Sale for $2 when they first came out and you couldn't get one. Every time I passed the microcenter I'd stop to get some and end up with a raincheck. well it finely paid off :) they Limited us to 1 Raincheck and 10 Picos per Raincheck, Between the 3 of us and our wives and Kids we Bought them all and I got 60 :) so it's time time to end of life the Arduinos. I'm a very bad Programmer so most of what I've ever done with the Arduinos is Either Someone Else's code or a bad Cut and paste job o other people's code. I've never been able to get C or C++, But MMBasic may be achievable, and Playing with my PM VGA. I have to Apologize to the Forum in advance for Flooding the forum with FNG Stupid Questions. but I'm Trying Hard to Learn. I've been going though an Injury lately, and between the Building of my PM VGA, Breadbording and spending time typing, My Therapist has been amazed and how quickly I'm recovering by using my arm-hand to constructive things! I especially want to send a Shout out to Lizby for sending me some board to Build, to get started! I also Need to apologize to all our Non-Texans, (Everybody) esp. the Subjects of her Majesty's Realm for my Spelling,Typing, and Grammar, I'm just a Dumb Texan. Please take it as such. I hope to be a Positive Evangelist for the Picomite and the MMBasic Platform in the future. Rickard  I may be Vulgar, but , while I'm poor, I'm Industrious, Honest, and trustworthy! I Know my Place |
||||
Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 7937 |
Now we know why no-one else in your area can find a Pico.... ;) Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
||||
| Rickard5 Guru Joined: 31/03/2022 Location: United StatesPosts: 463 |
Well Microcenter is an hour Drive or 7 Gallons of gas away, and when you make the trip based on their website saying they have 25+ in stock and there in-store only, so you can't order and pick up, then when you get there they have Zero of them, of course I'm gonna ask for a Rain Check and as soon as they have them I'm gonna use that Rain Check! Seriously though we didn't set out to buy ALL of them but when the PFY (Pimply Faced Youth) started getting Smart there we were going explore the boundaries of the Rules. and we did until we had 96 Picos between all of us. :) so am I the Bad guy here, Well maybe I am, but between MMBasic , Python and Circuit Python, Guess who doesn't have to deal with C on the Arduino? <THIS GUY> . I've already committed to giving all my Arduinos and shields to a Friend of ours for some of his Crack Pot Makes I may be Vulgar, but , while I'm poor, I'm Industrious, Honest, and trustworthy! I Know my Place |
||||
| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 7937 |
LOL! Well, at least you won't run out for a while now. :) Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
||||
Grogster Admin Group  Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9610 |
All those PICO's should keep you and your chums busy for a while!  I too could never get my head around C or C++ etc. I have no doubt at all of its power - everything is written in it, INCLUDING our old faithful MMBASIC. I guess it is more truthful to say that I simply don't have the TIME to learn how to code in C efficiently - or at all!  I also dabbled in Arduino, but gave up on it also cos it is C based. Then I discovered MMBASIC and have never looked back. I think you will find learning MMBASIC will be MUCH easier then learning C. That was my experience when I was a newbie. It was still quite a slow and tough learning curve when I FIRST started with MMBASIC, as I had, at that time, never even done anything with the likes of MS BASIC or GW BASIC etc. I came from 8-bit Atari BASIC back in the 80's, and probably the hardest part of MMBASIC for me, was learning to write programs WITHOUT using line numbers, that all of the 80's style BASIC's used and that was what I was used to. However, having learned how to do that, I would never go back to line-numbers!  You can just do so much more with your program 'Flow" with structured programming, then you can ever hope to do with line numbers. I liked the fact that MMBASIC supported line numbers, and still does as far as I know. That allowed me to USE line numbers as I learnt to move away from them if you see what I am getting at. Good luck with your mission, and there are plenty of helpful people here who can and will help you with any questions you want to post, and don't worry about any newbie questions - the members want new users to adopt the platform, so newbie questions are welcomed here. Just make sure you have read the basics in the manuals first, and I am pretty sure you have the manuals as I have heard you mention them before in other threads, so you're all good. I look forward to watching your progress.  Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
||||
| KD5ZXG Regular Member  Joined: 21/01/2022 Location: United StatesPosts: 53 |
Never had a problem at that MC nabbing one or two at $4ea. They reside hidden in a drawer, not hanging on the wall. You will have to ask someone, or looks like none at all. Priority yesterday was buying a laser printer, an 8TB USB, and ESD mats for my workbenches. Didn't think to ask Pico. Got two already, and that's one more than I actually use. I've a small pile of MSP430 launchpads and Arduinos rarely ever used for lack of BASIC and getting nowhere in C hell. TI tried to train me in Code Composer twice. And I took an online course for Stellaris in KEIL. I may be unteachable. Edited 2022-04-18 11:51 by KD5ZXG |
||||
hitsware2 Guru Joined: 03/08/2019 Location: United StatesPosts: 719 |
Please explain to me : How do line numbers " unstructure " a program ? I am definitely missing something .... The only thing leaving out line numbers does for me , is save a little space ...  my site |
||||
| KD5ZXG Regular Member Joined: 21/01/2022 Location: United StatesPosts: 53 |
Advantage of numbers is immediate editing from the ready prompt. A full screen editor is sometimes better, also sometimes awkward. Limit to full screen edit and debug drastically slows me down. If I was building my own from scratch (which I am definitely not) would store every line as string variable, and allow runtime self- modification. Numbers can defer insert, delete, modify. Lines may reside in any order until the garbage man cometh to rake it clean. Structure-ache my eye, I'll be having spaghetti and eat it too. I'm fine with MMBasic being what it is as-is, anything but C!!! MY COMPUTER LIKES ME when I speak in BASIC Edited 2022-04-18 13:16 by KD5ZXG |
||||
| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 7937 |
OOH! Can we have the battle of line numbers again please? [RANT] I started typing in examples of using MMBasic and "line number BASIC" to do the same thing. I realised why I now hate line numbers so much. Inflexible, no structure (any "structure" you think you have is an illusion) and a pig to edit. You can write "structured" programs using line numbers, but you are kidding yourself if you think they'll be maintainable for the next 10 years. You'll end up re-writing blocks of code. [/RANT] Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
||||
| Volhout Guru Joined: 05/03/2018 Location: NetherlandsPosts: 5090 |
I am not sure if it was Algol, or Fortran I was tought at school, but there they teached to use numbers as labels. So not line numbers, but label numbers. That was actually logical for the programs we where educated for. Not sure if these numbers where related to punch cards ? Maybe they where... PicomiteVGA PETSCII ROBOTS |
||||
| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 4044 |
There's nothing wrong with line numbers EXCEPT when the program is made of GOTO number & GOSUB number. Spaghetti code, horrible to read, understand, maintain. (See "GOTO Considered Harmful" - oh, that's a slight misquote, apologies.) Once you have proper structured programming constructs (WHILE, IF THEN ELSE, etc) you don't need line numbers, but there'd be nothing wrong with having them to allow a way to edit the program. (I prefer a full screen editor, but hey, each to their own, and I suppose you could be on a system with a crude display unsuitable for such an editor.) John Edited 2022-04-18 19:02 by JohnS |
||||
| Rickard5 Guru Joined: 31/03/2022 Location: United StatesPosts: 463 |
OK my take on line numbers is simply this I was in 6th grade in 1979 , and I would intentionally get myself kicked out of class I get sent to the teachers resource room to sit quietly and study, because there was an Apple ][+ and an AppleSoft Manual, and I learned basic that way, maybe that's why I can't wrap my mind around C++ and having such a hard time with Python, but maybe having the option now is gonna help me Transition to this "Structured" Programming. and maybe just maybe there are a few more Goofs like me that need that crutch to move forward a step ! we aren't all real programmers, some of us are just amazed when we can just simply move a stepper or a servos PLEASE PLEASE don't take my line Numbers, Sub Routines, Go To's and Gosubs I may be Vulgar, but , while I'm poor, I'm Industrious, Honest, and trustworthy! I Know my Place |
||||
| lizby Guru Joined: 17/05/2016 Location: United StatesPosts: 3378 |
We won't take them, but you'd do yourself a favor if you gave them up. GOSUB can stay if you must (it's little but a grammatical difference from SUB), but lose the GOTOs. ("I'm now a Committed Follower" -- better, I suppose, than being an emitter follower".) ~ Edited 2022-04-18 22:56 by lizby PicoMite, Armmite F4, SensorKits, MMBasic Hardware, Games, etc. on fruitoftheshed |
||||
| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 7937 |
What strange majik be this "emitter follower" of which thou speak? Be it a relative of the beloved cathode follower? GOSUB is nowhere near as useful as SUB - especially when LOCAL variables are used. And the less said about GOTO the better... (Holds hand up, I *have* used it. There are rare occasions when it can make the program flow more obvious.) Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
||||
| lizby Guru Joined: 17/05/2016 Location: United StatesPosts: 3378 |
"In electronics, a common collector amplifier (also known as an emitter follower) is one of three basic single-stage bipolar junction transistor (BJT) amplifier topologies": wikipedia  PicoMite, Armmite F4, SensorKits, MMBasic Hardware, Games, etc. on fruitoftheshed |
||||
| Rickard5 Guru Joined: 31/03/2022 Location: United StatesPosts: 463 |
Mick. you have been a Great defender of Kraftwerk and as such You must accept their assertion that we are the Robots, all of us. and once you accept being a robot you MUST accept the Temple of Robotica in to your logic circuits. and the Master Control Program teaches us clearly that Line Numbers and the GOTO statement are Sacred!  I may be Vulgar, but , while I'm poor, I'm Industrious, Honest, and trustworthy! I Know my Place |
||||
| Tinine Guru Joined: 30/03/2016 Location: United KingdomPosts: 1646 |
Generally true but not always. Who cares how pretty the source looks if it is unable to perform. I have written a quadrature decoder and counter in PropBasic that can handle > 1.5M counts/second. It's a state-machine that is full of GOTOs. These GOTOs translate to assembly JMPs. Any other looping structure generates time-consuming overhead. In contrast, the official Parallax quadrature counter, written in 100% assembly, only handles up to 555K counts/second.  Craig |
||||
| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 7937 |
Lol! (and, Lizby, I was only being silly. I have a long and sometimes pointless relationship with cathode followers, emitter followers, source followers and followers of the Church Of The Almighty GOTO. )I *always* care how pretty the source is if I'm going to have to maintain it. OTOH, I don't care how horrid it is if it's for someone else to worry about. :) GOTO will usually *compile* into fast native code no matter what platform, but it won't necessarily be more efficient in an interpreter. Edited 2022-04-19 01:35 by Mixtel90 Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
||||
| lizby Guru Joined: 17/05/2016 Location: United StatesPosts: 3378 |
Mick--I thought, considering your background, that you were far more familiar with emitter-followers than I will ever be, but since it was a pretty nerdy hardware play on words, I thought it wouldn't hurt to amplify for the software folks (like me--I knew the term but had to look it up). PicoMite, Armmite F4, SensorKits, MMBasic Hardware, Games, etc. on fruitoftheshed |
||||
| matherp Guru Joined: 11/12/2012 Location: United KingdomPosts: 10315 |
FYI GOTO and GOSUB are both very inefficient in "normal" MMBasic as they trigger a sequential search for the label or line number. In the PicoMite, ArmmiteH7, CMM2 and MMB4W they are optimised for labels but not line numbers using a hashed lookup. Subroutine and function calls are more efficient in "normal" MMbasic as they sequentially search a pre-prepared list of subroutines created when you type RUN. In the PicoMite, ArmmiteH7, CMM2 and MMB4W they are further optimised using a hashed lookup. |
||||
| Page 1 of 2 |
|||||
 Print this page |
 |
The Back Shed's forum code is written, and hosted, in Australia. | © JAQ Software 2025 |
