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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : Is the Color Maximite 2 Dead?
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| robert.rozee Guru  Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 2287 |
the big problem with keyboard and VGA in a teaching environment is that it adds a whole load more 'stuff' on the student's work area. plus, of course, there is a PSU of some sort required. this all adds up to a fair bit of clutter and cabling pulling things around. as kids are likely to already have a laptop/netbook computer of some sort to hand, i'd see a non-vga picomite tethered to the student's PC as a far more practical solution. even better, use serial over bluetooth - at last, a valid real-world use for bluetooth! with just a PICO and $1 bluetooth adapter, suddenly you don't need to worry too much about circuit protection as the PICO is cheap enough to treat as a consumable/disposable item. and if you really want, as Mick suggests, bring out the I/O pins to alligtor-clip friendly attachment points, such as loops of wire:  (from: https://nz.mouser.com/new/keystone/keystone-thm-test-points/) btw, i am far more a fan of teaching students how to write algorithms and interact with I/O devices than creating games. but then that is just my background i guess! cheers, rob :-) addendum: just ordered one of these, to see how well it works: https://www.ebay.com/itm/225082647495 Edited 2022-10-09 21:55 by robert.rozee |
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| lizby Guru Joined: 17/05/2016 Location: United StatesPosts: 3015 |
Rog--are those loops with the colored sleeves a product? Can you provide a link? I've often wanted something like those. PicoMite, Armmite F4, SensorKits, MMBasic Hardware, Games, etc. on fruitoftheshed |
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Nimue Guru Joined: 06/08/2020 Location: United KingdomPosts: 367 |
Oddly, I just received one of those -- use case -- temperature sensor hooked up to PicoMite to send data to an App on my Android phone. (not built yet). I use my PicoMites tethered to PC (Windows mostly) -- now, serial over bluetooth to remove the physical tether would be awesome. Agree over all the complexity of cables -- as mentioned in another thread, the moment I need teachers to unplug cables, the moment it all stops. N Entropy is not what it used to be |
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| robert.rozee Guru Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 2287 |
seems that doing it under linux is Super Easy, Barely an Inconvenience : http://www.wattnotions.com/using-the-hc-06-hc-05-bluetooth-adapter-for-serial-communication-with-linux/ i'd imagine there should be a similar incantation that can be used for windows. if not, i may need to build it into GFXterm. apart from mouser? https://nz.mouser.com/new/keystone/keystone-thm-test-points/ there are some options on ebay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/354206424916 cheers, rob :-) Edited 2022-10-09 22:58 by robert.rozee |
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| Nimue Guru Joined: 06/08/2020 Location: United KingdomPosts: 367 |
Yes - the Windows equivalent is "MORE Bluetooth Options" in the Bluetooth panel when pairing. This lets you assign a COM port to the device. And this port can then be used as any other. My generic module is seen as HC-06 by Windows Using VSS / GND from the Mite. SETPIN GP13,GP12, COM1 - works to receive / send serial data when tethered. OPTION BAUDRATE 9600 OPTION SERIAL CONSOLE GP12,GP13 I now have a PicoMite working untethered to a PC, sending its terminal data over Bluetooth to Tera Term. Now, this module as a HAT, with a LIPO battery / charing would be nice ;-) N Entropy is not what it used to be |
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Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 5726 |
Whatever you do, make sure those things are turned down to minimum power and locked so that little Johnny can't change it (or mess up any of the other settings). A lot of little modules default to stupid output power - and highly illegal in the UK anyway. If they are on a desk there's no need for any more than the minimum. Personally I'd prefer a USB lead, which can power the thing as well. A USB/TTL converter could be integrated. EDIT: If you connect a display and keyboard over a serial link you can only be using a terminal - that's console mode at best. You can't program graphics other than ASNSI VT52/VT100 codes. TBH I think that form of learning computing went out a few years ago.You'd be better using MMBasic for windows and a PicoMite connected via USB/COM to act as a remote I/O port. Edited 2022-10-10 07:23 by Mixtel90 Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| robert.rozee Guru Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 2287 |
part of the idea is to remove any physical connection between the pico and netbook, so as to eliminate shorts, miswiring of the pico, etc from being able to damage the netbook. the pico becomes a $5 "fuse". (over a serial link) you can make use of whatever graphics abilities your terminal emulator supports. Teraterm supports GCG Tektronix emulation for displaying graphics, while GFXterm supports its own simplified turtle graphics overlaying the 80x24 text screen. not quite up to implementing "space invaders" or "", but, as i said earlier, my personal views are less towards games programming. cheers, rob :-) Edited 2022-10-10 14:20 by robert.rozee |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 5726 |
TBH I'd rather risk the USB/TTL module than run the risk of someone thinking it would be a good idea to short out the lithium battery. :) At least you could put a polyfuse in the 5V line from the module to the Pico if you felt nervous. You'd be far, far better teaching programming on cheap Chinese tablets and bluetooth keyboards if you want true isolation. If you can connect wires to it someone will try to plug it into the mains eventually.   Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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thwill Guru Joined: 16/09/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 3840 |
Hey folks, I just want to chime in on the benefits of "games programming" - which hand in hand with the 8-bit micro revolution was, I suspect, the introductory route for most of the software developers (and many other IT professionals) now in their 40s and 50s; it's an even rarer member of the following generations brought up on consoles, phones and tablets that can "cut it" in my experience. - Games are fun (like flashing LEDs and robots) - though in some ways it is unfortunate that the state of the art has moved on so much, "back in the day" amateur efforts looked not that much poorer than the professional ones. - Games just require the computer (unlike flashing LEDs and robots) - except of course we are talking about tethering 'mites to computers ;-) - Games teach transferable programming skills. - The development of a game is (usually) a finite process c.f. other software, i.e. a game program is something that can be "finished" rather than "abandoned". - The development of games creates advancements in the technology for the development of other applications - case in point being the bugs that I have found and Peter has fixed in the firmware. - also as a result of writing games I have developed a bunch of tools and libraries for the 'mites - though when I mention them in passing nobody seems hugely interested, which if I'm honest is fine because it means they don't need documenting or maintaining :D :D :D So, in summary, "Games programming rules!", it's sad that I forgot that for ~20 years. Best wishes, Tom Edited 2022-10-10 21:54 by thwill Game*Mite, CMM2 Welcome Tape, Creaky old text adventures |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 5726 |
I think there's a lot of truth in that. The programmer gets relatively quick gratification on getting, say, a sprite to work properly. That leads to further encouragement to continue the learning process. The point is, where do you need to stop? If you are learning on a CMM2 then the possible gaming commands are richer, but does that lead to a better learning experience or just a different one? The end result may well be a more professional looking game than one written on a PicoMite VGA, but that isn't necessarily why the game was written. I submit that, if the game was written as a teaching exercise then the platform used is immaterial - the writer should be encouraged to write the game within the limits of that platform. That's where a lot of the skill lies - in pushing the limits of the available system. There have been game-writing languages in the past (there probably still are) - things like GFA BASIC - but commands can be convoluted and complex and, at the end of the day, you'd learn more by writing a SUB to scroll the screen one pixel sideways then you would by using a specialist command to to it. The result would be slower but you'd know how it worked and isn't that the point? Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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Turbo46 Guru Joined: 24/12/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1593 |
Then I wish that none of the games submitted for both of the programming challenges were "finished". All of them could have been developed further after the challenge was over: - A splash screen and/or on screen instructions - More input devices other than just the keyboard which I find difficult for long time use. - More detailed graphics. - Improved sound - or some sound in some cases. - More levels of play. Lower levels in some cases to suit younger players (and geriatrics  ).- Saving high scores and player. - Better transitions from one level to the next. This in no way intended to criticize the games as entered, the rules prevented the addition of many extra niceties. They were all excellent in their own right, I just wish that development did not stop when they were entered. Bill Keep safe. Live long and prosper. |
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| thwill Guru Joined: 16/09/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 3840 |
Hi Bill, I said that games "can be 'finished'", not that they will be . The items that you mention are, at least for me, amongst the most time consuming bits to do. e.g. the gameplay for the simple multiplayer lazer-cycle game I'm writing for the PicoMiteVGA was basically finished in 1 week at Easter but I'm still titivating the presentational aspects.Best wishes, Tom Game*Mite, CMM2 Welcome Tape, Creaky old text adventures |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 5726 |
I think it's a little unfair to complain that competition entries weren't "finished". In actual fact they probably were - within the constraints placed on them by the rules of the competition. Writing a game to fit within a limited amount of memory or number of lines of MMBasic is completely different to writing one without those restrictions. If you haven't got space for higher resolution graphics or sound then you aren't going to get them. Likewise, the competition entries had to be testable using a keyboard - if any other input device was included it would be an addition - and it might not be included unless there was programming space. Now, would the entrants be interested in "finishing" their games to a higher standard? That's a different question. In some cases they might, in other cases they almost certainly wouldn't because of the extra work involved in modifying heavily compressed code to add new facilities. It might be almost a rewrite in some cases. I suspect that writing games for educational purposes is something else again. The aim is to complete them if possible, but that's not a necessity as the principal reason to write them is to teach programming skills. Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| TimD Newbie  Joined: 23/02/2021 Location: United KingdomPosts: 27 |
I agree with Mick's point about having to rewrite a 'compressed' game... the program size restriction determines so many aspects of the game - graphics, sound design, gameplay, number of levels, etc - that I think you'd want to really start pretty much from scratch to develop it into a 'full' game. Having spent about 50-60 hours on the last challenge (I'm a slow developer!), the thought of returning to it, pulling it to pieces, completely reworking and embellishing it, thoroughly re-testing it, re-commenting and re-documenting it becomes rather daunting That said, if folks wanted me to do that to either of the little games I've submitted, I'd certainly consider it. However, I'm guessing that there is only a passing interest in them, and it wouldn't really justify the work involved. Kind regards, Tim. |
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vegipete Guru Joined: 29/01/2013 Location: CanadaPosts: 1082 |
For the most part, I certainly wouldn't want to rewrite someone else's heavily compressed game. (TimD's work is an exception - his work is so neat and tidy. I successfully altered his first contest entry so that your initial angle is preserved from one attempt to the next.) I was fairly good at maintaining a well laid out and commented version of my compressed games, so I can revisit them for improvements and embellishments. Indeed, I almost feel I am obligated to do so as appreciation for placing well.  So expect an improved CMM2 version of Stellar Battle in the Seven Green Hills Zone at some point. Plus, there is more for the CMM2 in the pipeline... Visit Vegipete's *Mite Library for cool programs. |
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| Turbo46 Guru Joined: 24/12/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1593 |
Was I complaining? Sorry I didn't mean to. Just pointing out that not one of the games was taken any further and they all deserved it in my opinion. Of course they were "finished" under the confines of the challenge rules. The trouble is that the challenge rules don't permit joysticks, Nunchuks, NEC controllers etcetera and some embellishments must be forsaken for the sake of gameplay in order to comply with size limits. My grand kids are happy to shoot aliens, zombies or whatever using an Xbox or PS4(5,6?) controller, but ask them to use a keyboard to control a game and they quickly give up (too hard). A potential audience is lost. I guess that I had an over simplistic idea of what might be involved to add a few extra bells an whistles. Sorry for any angst I've caused. Bill Keep safe. Live long and prosper. |
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| TimD Newbie Joined: 23/02/2021 Location: United KingdomPosts: 27 |
Hi Bill, you've not caused any angst as far as I'm concerned. It's nice to know that you think that the games submitted by the contestants are worth being taken to the next level  Kind regards, Tim. |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 5726 |
Oh, no problem, Bill. My reply does look a bit "heavy" now I come to read it again. :) It's so sad that the budding CMM gaming platform got strangled by the silicon shortage. :( Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| Volhout Guru Joined: 05/03/2018 Location: NetherlandsPosts: 3527 |
@turbo, My challenge entries where - TLS (ten line sokoban). A much better verion exists for CMM2 from vegipete. - SSTV, this was disqualified, and will not run on CMM2 sine it uses PIO. Volhout PicomiteVGA PETSCII ROBOTS |
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| Turbo46 Guru Joined: 24/12/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1593 |
@Tom, OK I'll bite. Where are these tools and libraries? I'm aware of SPTOOLS and there are many things you do in SAAINT that many can learn from and use but I'm not aware of a 'games library' as such. Bill Keep safe. Live long and prosper. |
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