 Notice. New forum software under development. It's going to miss a few functions and look a bit ugly for a while, but I'm working on it full time now as the old forum was too unstable. Couple days, all good. If you notice any issues, please contact me. |
Forum Index : Electronics : Wiseguy New Inverter Build Nano R6
  Page 2 of 5   |
|||||
| Author | Message | ||||
wiseguy Guru  Joined: 21/06/2018 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1016 |
Ok 4 out of 5 in ~ 4 hours ain't so bad so I will continue. I will now proceed to finish all the documentation, but I think the first doc will be for the bill of materials as some of the parts from Ali can take weeks to arrive so the earlier they are ordered the better. Bryan the recent HY5608s you bought are about as good as you can get and they will still work perfectly when you finally decide 48V is the best way to go  Their 25° rating is 80V @ 360A, with on resistance is 1.5typ to 2max milliohms. All mine to date have been 1.5 or less milliohms. Gerry, noted thanks will be in touch. Edited 2024-03-09 17:51 by wiseguy If at first you dont succeed, I suggest you avoid sky diving.... Cheers Mike |
||||
| wiseguy Guru Joined: 21/06/2018 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1016 |
Ok I forgot to tell you all a little tale of Nano woes that date back a quite a while. When I first went to order a Nano I sent an image of the one I found on Ali to Poida and he said yep that there is the beast you want go for it, little did I know.... Recently when Poida was sending me code updates, quite often at times (he can program and improve faster than I can test). I had the normally deathly quiet improved zero cross version (perfect symmetry or typoed prefect symmetry) inverter code I could hear the hum varying and it grunted a bit more on startup. So I complained about the poor quality code I was being sent for free lol and Poida just glared and said it works just fine, it can't be the code. So I had in my possession 2 whole nanos one reference unit that was dead quiet and the other that was getting all the updates to the code with varying hum. Then I got a third nano built and now it gets more interesting, randomly with new codes some would have this "hunting" hum other versions were much better. So I got the two codes - one dead quiet and the other with the hunting hum and emailed them to Poida with notes, here is the proof, take that! My next email from Poida said yeah I tested them they are both perfect as expected. About this time I thought Poida can't be seeing what I am seeing so I loaded all 3 of my Nanos with the exact same code and tested them, the first two perfect, the third - yep you guessed it wandering hum. It was the f$%#ing Nano mega chip which incidentally was a QFN pack (smaller than the typical gull wing types) & stamped (etched) with an Atmel logo that didnt look like an Atmel logo and clearly marked as "China". I am positive that this was the very same Nano that had me going in circles trying to fix my inverter grunt. You can tell from all the wires soldered to it for attaching CRO probes and meters. ~$3 worth of tens of wasted hours and woes. Moral be sure you get the right Nanos, the faulty one does basically work but I sense it emulates the mega chip or something, no doubt small port timing issues of nano seconds that sometimes all can randomly add up to inbalanced core flux. If at first you dont succeed, I suggest you avoid sky diving.... Cheers Mike |
||||
Bryan1 Guru Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1211 |
G'Day Mike, Now you got me thinking and I do have 4 old car batteries I can put in series to get 48 volts so I can put my 4Kw motor in my old lathe and see at what RPM the vfd cuts out for over current  Now my old idea was 240 RPM for cutin and if it is 480 RPM then I may just have to make a 2:1 ratio setup as I do intend to get this beast in the air very soon. I do still need to get the council to approve the structures I want to build out the back and have offered to document the tower arrangement for their standards of installing a wind turbine. When I first asked I had to explain what I made and what it was. For now my 24 volt forklift batteries are still going after many years on both the house and shed array's. That SA32 selectronic inverter we bought in '04 has been working 24/7 ever since at 24 volts and when I rang them to see if any software updates were there I was told they stopped making them 10 years ago. Toriods are a problem for me as every mob I ask look at me with a blank face. Now as I am down town thru the week it may be time to go see AEMCores and ask if they can help me out. Just so I don't sleep all day after I am a night shift worker and when you meet me sweet thing do happen as I work at Menz So lets say we stack 3 toriods the toriod numbers are going to stack up and as I'm on saving for this 45HP tractor I can put a few grand into getting this going for a source of toriods that we can use. So that will take out the equation of sourcing toriods and the price is what it is guy's. I Don't mind fronting for the first order to kick this off just so we have a good source of toriods to use. Cheers Bryan Edited 2024-03-09 18:45 by Bryan1 |
||||
| wiseguy Guru Joined: 21/06/2018 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1016 |
Hi Bryan, I received a message from a BS'er today and he talked about core pricing from AEM as of ~ Nov. last year. "I intend to order a larger toroidal core from AEM Cores in the near future as the cost is still pretty compelling based on prices quoted in Nov 2023 (about $14.50 ExGST per Kg of annealed CRGO Silicon Steel). Here are some options I am considering: 1. 100mm (ID) * 200mm (OD) * 150mm (H) stacked strip core 5.6KVA - $384 ExGST + Delivery 2. 100mm (ID) * 215mm (OD) * 130mm (H) stacked strip core 5.6KVA - $402 ExGST + Delivery 3. 100mm (ID) * 240mm (OD) * 105mm (H) single strip core 5.4KVA - $427 ExGST + Delivery 4. 90mm (ID) * 230mm (OD) * 105mm (H) single strip core 5.4KVA - $402 ExGST + Delivery A smaller core suitable for most homes with a lower power consumption is even more attractive: 1. 100mm (ID) * 210mm (OD) * 105mm (H) single strip core 3.3KVA - $306 ExGST + Delivery 2. 90mm (ID) * 200mm (OD) * 105mm (H) single strip core 3.3KVA - $286 ExGST + Delivery" I think No1 from both lists are the best size and value, nice large central hole and considering new high quality material and god knows how many front fences we would have saved from recycling. It seemed appropriate to post the pricing here so you are prepared for the winding costs on top. Edited 2024-03-09 19:52 by wiseguy If at first you dont succeed, I suggest you avoid sky diving.... Cheers Mike |
||||
| rogerdw Guru Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 814 |
Ouch, that's gotta hurt if that was the cause of your original toroid grunting problem too. Of course the $64,000 question is ... how do we know which ones are okay ... do we need to spring for the genuine ones? Maybe Poida can link to his source perhaps. That's very helpful thanks Mike. I do recall when I got a quote perhaps 2.5 years ago, that while their website says max core height is 70mm ... the guy told me they can do up to 100mm. Looks like they can go to 105mm now. Very useful info. Thank you. Cheers, Roger |
||||
| wiseguy Guru Joined: 21/06/2018 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1016 |
Roger I've decided to answer the question and as its for you I'll do it for half your suggested payment. Typical Good Nano, note only the main mega IC on top  Very Bad Nano (maybe I just got a bad one?) Note second IC on top  Look for the one similar to the top picture and note there are 3 different USB connector types on Nanos - I use the USB mini as per the pictures, there is a USB micro and a USBC type. A listing light just have the one you want in the big picture but maybe not all the ones they sell are the pictured ones so look closely at the smaller picture that you click on before purchase. A seller or two with good Nanos is a good idea to post a link - Ill leave that to Poida. Edited 2024-03-10 09:02 by wiseguy If at first you dont succeed, I suggest you avoid sky diving.... Cheers Mike |
||||
| Bryan1 Guru Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1211 |
Hi Mike, Thanks for putting those prices up mate, now do you what do you think about stacking two together to make the toriod that much more powerful. Now at those prices if we do go with stacked cores I can afford to spring for 3 sets ie: 6 off toroids. I will keep one set for myself and the other two sets can be had at cost as I don't feel a profit should be made between us guy's.  I will leave up to you to decide which one's we go for and I do feel by buying a few of them they won't shun me off as I will say more will be bought in time. I do have a number of nano's here and several here in the house so I had to go and check and everyone of them just has the single chip like you posted above. I do a couple of USBC ones and 5 off mini USB ones so my stock does look the goods. Regards Bryan |
||||
| wiseguy Guru Joined: 21/06/2018 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1016 |
Hi Bryan, I should have pointed out more clearly the Nanos with only the main chip on top has the other chip, but on the underside. With regard to the Toroids my personal take is that they would be happy to accept a one off order - two is probably better. Nice gesture to make but not sure of practicality. But given the up front cost and weight to ship twice (once to you then to other party) my suggestion is to purchase for your needs, a lot of people that have pme'd me already have donor toroids that are waiting for their project to start. However if your project is waiting for a donor Toroid it is a great fallback that can get your project on track again. Donor toroids are only going to get rarer from now on. Edited 2024-03-10 09:37 by wiseguy If at first you dont succeed, I suggest you avoid sky diving.... Cheers Mike |
||||
| wiseguy Guru Joined: 21/06/2018 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1016 |
Well after spending quite a few hours trying to assemble a BOM (bill of materials), I wanted to include sources for some parts and pricing etc. But as some will have suitable parts to hand and they may consolidate purchases for low cost or free shipping from a few suppliers it just got harder and harder. So, I decided to just present the raw bill of materials and not give part numbers (for generic connectors LEDs etc) and sources and prices. However for the 4 way and 6way main connectors for 48V and Fans etc I highly recommend a pluggable terminal block such as the Phoenix MSTB2.5 series - I dont recommend you actually buy them as they are fricking expensive. There are plenty of 2nd and 3d and more sources of cheaper alternatives that are probably even plug compatible with the Phoenix types. It is a low current application but fixed PCB to wire terminals are tedious to undo and rewire with a greater chance of crossing wires (especially a year down the track) a rouge strand etc - the pluggable types make it childs play to remove and install the PCB again in a few seconds. Of course there are also right angle sockets that could be used and various plugs with wires that are opposite the pins, others with the screws opposite the pins and the wires at right angles etc, personal preference plays a part as to what will suit you. I also recommend that you should purchase from Ali some pre assembled 8way 6way 3way double ended rainbow coloured wire, single inline sockets each end 2.54mm (0.1") spacing, at least 200mm long for connections to controller to PowerPCB, Front panel LED and switch connections, controller to LCD etc. they are only a couple of dollars for 10 and good to have a few. The variac pot can use a double ended 3 way type. You can hard wire a 3pin connector to the pot or even cut the connector off one end and solder direct. I will be using a 10 turn panel pot (from Ali) for my variac as you can dial in voltage to 1 decimal point then - ( still to be proven) the single turn pot is pretty coarse with ~ 1V per degree of turn. For the controller the only parts a bit special is the 12V & 5V regulators, the opamps specified - with rail to rail input and output, The ZMPT107 2mA transformer and the BS170 mosfet, some other types (ie 2N7000) the footprint is backwards - it can be used if rotated 180 degrees from the silk screen. The PS2A regulator can be substituted for the PS2, the silkscreen has the number MP1584 which is wrong - it should say Mini360 which are cheap and from Ali. Just ensure the pot is adjusted for 5-5.1V before you power up with the Ics installed. So hopefully today I will post the BOM here. Edited 2024-03-10 11:05 by wiseguy If at first you dont succeed, I suggest you avoid sky diving.... Cheers Mike |
||||
| Godoh Guru Joined: 26/09/2020 Location: AustraliaPosts: 386 |
Hi Mike, (wiseguy) just wondering about the prices you quote for the cores. Did you get them to give you a price for the cores wound to your specs? I am curious as to what price they charge to wind them too. As new wire is pretty expensive,( around $35 a kilo) and the time it takes, I was just wondering whether it is worth all the extra work of winding the transformers ourselves. I have mine done but still they add up in price once one buys the second hand cores, unwinds them, buys wire, tape, varnish etc. Pete |
||||
| wiseguy Guru Joined: 21/06/2018 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1016 |
Hi Pete, I never asked for any pricing - that was forwarded on to me from someone who was enquiring about cost of cores to wind. He was of the opinion that getting a wound core premade, saves a lot of trouble and lets guess $500 or $700 for a prewound core, when combined with $100 - $300 of parts is still a bargain for a 6kW inverter compared to anything commercial and with the support of a great forum to back it up.....  If at first you dont succeed, I suggest you avoid sky diving.... Cheers Mike |
||||
| Godoh Guru Joined: 26/09/2020 Location: AustraliaPosts: 386 |
Thanks Mike, the transformer I made is working well. I have another inverter that powers the shed that I am going to do some work on soon too. I bought enough rectangular bar to wind the primary on it too, so plan to take the 6mm solar cable I used off and put the rectangular bar on. It certainly dumps the heat better than PVC insulated cable. Have fun with the build Pete |
||||
| wiseguy Guru Joined: 21/06/2018 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1016 |
Pete, what are the dimensions of the bar you have, where/who did you purchase it from and what is the cost (is it per metre of per kilo & if in kilo how many metres per kilo?). In Adelaide it is near impossible to source much over 2mm round varnished wire - I was looking for flat varnished wire and got nowhere. If at first you dont succeed, I suggest you avoid sky diving.... Cheers Mike |
||||
| wiseguy Guru Joined: 21/06/2018 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1016 |
Finally the BOM for the Inverter controller and Assembly overlay and Schematic is ready for posting. It should be referred to by its PCB No. which is WG39Rev6, Inverter Controller. The post topic is headed Nano Rev6, both refer to this BOM and PCB Rev6 number. I have spent many hours on this, but I cannot guarantee that it has no omissions or errors despite my best efforts. If any change is required it will probably be a resistor value tweak. As the LCD is such a small assembly and most will use it with the controller I have included it with this BOM at the bottom. I have a confession, the new (untested/unproven) Rev6 PCB is in Sydney on its way here and yet to be built up. I wont be accepting any orders or payments until it is proven as 100% ok. The Rev 5 was almost identical but this has a few extra feature and a better layout (and a few bug fixes). Below the controller now is the Power PCB BOM, ASSY and Schematic for WG30 Rev1 WG39 Rev6 Nano Controller BOM WG39 Rev6 Nano Controller BOM.pdf WG39 Rev6 Nano Controller Assembly Not to scale - larger for legibility WG39 Rev6 Nano Controller Assy.pdf WG39 REv6 Nano Controller Schematic WG39 Rev6 Nano Controller.pdf WG30 Rev1 Power PCB BOM WG30 Rev1 Power PCB BOM.pdf WG30 Rev1 Power PCB Assembly WG30 Rev1 Power PCB Assembly.pdf WG30 Rev1 Power PCB Schematic WG30 Rev1 Power PCB.pdf Edited 2024-03-11 20:11 by wiseguy If at first you dont succeed, I suggest you avoid sky diving.... Cheers Mike |
||||
KeepIS Guru Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1399 |
Mike I didn't see any info on the Current transformer TLS76L1 or equivalent. If I missed it please ignore  It's all too hard. Mike. |
||||
| Ziki_the Newbie  Joined: 13/04/2023 Location: YugoslaviaPosts: 28 |
@KeepIS Think is 2000:1 ratio transformer. Pozdrav iz Srbije |
||||
| wiseguy Guru Joined: 21/06/2018 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1016 |
Mike it is a 2500 to 1 and is rated for use up to 160A. I will give 2 transformers away with every Power Board order of 2 or more, until I run out, I reckon I've got at least 100 or so. I found a price of something similar for ~ 5.00 if you buy 5,000 units lol ! If at first you dont succeed, I suggest you avoid sky diving.... Cheers Mike |
||||
| KeepIS Guru Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1399 |
Thanks, I was mainly interested in the correct part for future reference in this thread for others building the controller and having to order the part. It's all too hard. Mike. |
||||
| wiseguy Guru Joined: 21/06/2018 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1016 |
Here is a data sheet for the Taehwa TLS76-L, in the Table it is the 10th one down and I said it was a 160A capable unit but it is listed in the table as 180A with a 51R burden resistor. However the graphs of the unit show that for a burden resistor from 200R down to 5R its capabilities extend from 100A @ 200R at ~8V out to ~430A with 5R and ~ 0.8V out. Here is the data from their website: Taehwa TLS76_L_CT.pdf Mike my memory did not serve me well Ziki was right it is 5A/.0025 which without a calculator tells me 2000:1 - that also explains the error I was getting for my calculations compared to results  Edited 2024-03-12 00:24 by wiseguy If at first you dont succeed, I suggest you avoid sky diving.... Cheers Mike |
||||
| KeepIS Guru Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1399 |
At least you still have most of your memory I feel like I have to second guess myself all the time these days  Thanks so much for the Data sheet, I could not find that when I searched for it the other day It's all too hard. Mike. |
||||
| Page 2 of 5 |
|||||
 Print this page |
