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Bub73 Senior Member Joined: 10/12/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 116
Posted: 06:14pm 10 Jun 2011
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We are going too make a stab at the pictures.
This picture shows a couple of the cell connector straps note the size of the contact spots,
This is another of the connector straps
This picture below shows the connector strap and where it connected to the next cell over. looks like a 1/4 pin coming through the cell wall.
Notice the amount of contact area.
Each cell has two of these connector straps one + and a - .
I just laid the strap on the separator so you can see the comparison.
This picture below shows the inside of the battery and you can see some of the remaining connector straps.
The top battery is the one that expired last week the one it is setting on is the one out of my dozer and it blew (the one that blew up in my face!)
the whole top off the top one didn't blow it all off I had to help it some to get the pictures we wanted.
This next picture is of a car battery that I peeled the sticker off the top to expose the caps and my dry wall screw .
I made into a T handle to pull the caps.
Some times you can reuse the sticker to help reseal the caps,
This is the last picture of the day and it is my old Tungar battery charger that used the old vacuum bulb rectifier and we updated it to solid state 70 amp rectifier.
this will charge up to 6 battery's at a time if you have enough connector straps.
We hope this helps out some of the new battery reclaimers.
Bub & Isaiah Amateur battery reclaimers.
mac46 Guru Joined: 07/02/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 412
Posted: 01:04am 13 Jun 2011
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Bub & Isaiah,
I've dismantled one of my stouborn batteries, not by explosion, with a hand saw. I wanted to see for myself if I could locate the problems inside to get a better understanding of what I was dealing with. Sometimes you just have to do an awtopsi, post mortum in this case.
Those are some pretty interesting pictures in you'r posting.
I wanted to ask, "Is it my imagination, or does running the desulphinator without a trickel charger, " stuff up a battery", meaning by running a battery charger with the desulphinator help the capasity more??? Sure seems like it does.
Thanks for posting the pictures and comments.
....Mac46I'm just a farmer
isaiah Guru Joined: 25/12/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 303
Posted: 04:20am 13 Jun 2011
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Mac46
Sometimes you have to waste one to find out what your up against and usually will pay a good dividend.
I think that you should have some amount of trickle coming in. but on the battery banks there is not always incoming charge. you can rigg up a wall wart to put enough juice in to make up for what the desulphinator uses.
Bub likes to run them self powered some times.
Another experiment for all to try is if you are working on reclaiming a battery and it gets wet looking on the top take VOM. and hook the neg to the neg then take the meter positive and run it around the top of the battery where it looks wet or dirty and see what readings you get. You'll be surprised and this can cause the explosion!
We may try and get a picture up of this also.Walmart has a battery cleaner detector that cleans thing up pretty good. you spray it on and let it foam up then rinse it off but BE SURE YOU HAVE THE CAPS ON AND THE CELLS SEALED.IF YOU GET IT IN THE CELL IT WILL NEUTRALISE THE ACID IN THAT CELL OR CELLS.
Hey Bob you got any battery's like in picture 3 and 4?
Have fun stay safe
IsaiahEdited by isaiah 2011-06-14URL=http://www.motherearthnews.com/Renewable-Energy/1973-11- 01/The-Plowboy-Interview.aspx>The Plowboy Interview[/URL>
VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539
Posted: 02:10pm 13 Jun 2011
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Hi All
Washing soda or baking soda in hot water is a good cleaner for batteries and a lot cheaper the the specially packaged products. Same applies on keeping it out of the cells though, but it is not as corrosive on the hands. Be very careful when dismantling cells as shown in previous posts and have a safety shower set up that you can turn on with eyes closed.
Be happy be healthy and don't get aciddosis.
All the best
BobFoolin Around
isaiah Guru Joined: 25/12/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 303
Posted: 03:45am 14 Jun 2011
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I just wanted to mention that yesterday we got notice from the local pirate electric company that it looks like our monthly rate is going up $3.00 more a month.
I will most probably be taking my shop off grid 100% The air compressor is the only reason Ive kept the grid service this long and I could run it with a generator if necessary.URL=http://www.motherearthnews.com/Renewable-Energy/1973-11- 01/The-Plowboy-Interview.aspx>The Plowboy Interview[/URL>
VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539
Posted: 04:32am 14 Jun 2011
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Hi mate
If you could chase up an old 12 volt 60 amp brush type generator they make a good motor on 24 volts, you just needs a bit of nichrome wire to the fields to reduce the field current a bit, mine draws 40 amps under peak load at 24 volts a bit over 1.2 horsepower. it is also a useful dummy load at times and when I carry it it is a load for a dummy, take your pick.
One day I will clean it up a bit and post a photo for the interest of all. It was my first thing converted to DC and If I live long enough I will convert most to run on DC.
All the best
BobFoolin Around
isaiah Guru Joined: 25/12/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 303
Posted: 01:49pm 14 Jun 2011
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Bob
I think I should have some of the 12 volt generators they came from old hot shots. They used to jump start cars they had two generators belted to a gas engine and would start them and jump start your car or what ever. And if you think we need another picture here I have a Goodall system with 4 generators and a Kohler motor to run them it has two 300 amp systems. This was used to jump start airplanes at the airport.
It has some miner problems but it may be Bubs next project's
What are you doing with the nichrome wire ?
I think one of those old generators would make a good dump load as is.
IsaiahURL=http://www.motherearthnews.com/Renewable-Energy/1973-11- 01/The-Plowboy-Interview.aspx>The Plowboy Interview[/URL>
mac46 Guru Joined: 07/02/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 412
Posted: 01:30am 17 Jun 2011
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Isaiah,
Just thought I'd let you know...I took my Fluke 73 out and tested the wet spots around the tops of various batteries, I was amazed at what I read on the read out.
Time to wash the battery tops off, I have all the chargers shut off for right now. Thanks for pointing this out.
Also, I believe VK4AYQ was useing the nichrome wire as a voltage/ amperage restricter, feeding the field coils...it has more risistance than copper, and can handle much higher temperatures. I kind of figgured he would reply on that question, but he probably missed it in the text.
Thanks again for the help.
....Mac46I'm just a farmer
isaiah Guru Joined: 25/12/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 303
Posted: 02:50am 17 Jun 2011
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Mac46
Glad to hear it helped you
I forgot to mention that we have a stool brush and we mix up either soap or baking soda solution to clean the tops of the batteries off.
I wish we would get more comments here from some of the onlookers,
We might blow up a old battery once in a while but we wont bite. BUB73 And I enjoy this thread and seeing someone save a battery. It is good news and a savings, Some times a battery wont come back enough to start a vehicle but you can put it to user for something that would require a low amp draw. I haven't had a chance to look for those generators as yet Ive got lots going on for a old man right now but will look them up before bad weather as my dump load is making some trouble, I could hook one of those genny's up and let it do what ever it wants.
I think VK4AYQ was suggesting I use one for a dc motor to run my air compressor but at this time my battery bank is 12 volt.
It might come to it down the road though.
If I don't get back in here before, all the dad's out there have a happy Fathers Day,
IsaiahURL=http://www.motherearthnews.com/Renewable-Energy/1973-11- 01/The-Plowboy-Interview.aspx>The Plowboy Interview[/URL>
VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539
Posted: 03:08am 17 Jun 2011
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Hi mac & Isaiah
Sorry I missed the nichrome bit, it is used to limit the field current when using a 12 volt generator as a motor on 24 volts as they are designed for 12 volts and get a bit hot and reduce the efficiency, if you are using 12 volts you can use a old six volt generator but a bit hard to find now.
Better to go to 24 volts later if you can as it is a bit more efficient and lots of good gear to use on it, 12 volts is great for basics such as light radio small TV and stereo but a bit pushed to run other appliances. It is amazing what you can do with it as long as you go back to basics.
Remember that not so long ago a wax candle and a hurricane lamp was the latest hi tech even the ladies used a treadle sewing machine and kept themselves fit while making the family clothes oh how times have changed and expectations gone through the roof, and are we any better for it?..
All the best
Bob
Foolin Around
isaiah Guru Joined: 25/12/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 303
Posted: 03:43am 17 Jun 2011
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Rastus Guru Joined: 29/10/2010 Location: AustraliaPosts: 301
Posted: 08:47am 17 Jun 2011
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Hi Mac46,Bob and Isaiah,
I thought I'd report in as a silent partner!I've attempted to recover 2 tractor battery's without success,at the cost of a battery charger that melted.So it could be that others aren't having your results either and it's safer to keep quiet.It hasn't put me off and I'll keep experimenting untill I get it right.There's plenty to gain and little to lose.I'll continue to follow this thread with interest and thanks guys for the ongoing info.Cheers Rastussee Rastus graduate advise generously
VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539
Posted: 09:32am 17 Jun 2011
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Hi Rastus
The good old Aussie saying, You cant win them all, applies to batteries, half the fun is having a go, if you win 50% of the time thats a great success. After a while you will be able to look at a battery and have a fair idea if you can salvage it. We all burnt and blew up a lot over the years.
All the best
Bob Foolin Around
mac46 Guru Joined: 07/02/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 412
Posted: 03:07pm 17 Jun 2011
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VK4AYQ,
I have realized that a few of the batteries I thought I had recovered, have since relapsed back into the problem area. So my recovery average has taken a dive.
I think the effort is time well spent. Maintaining batteries during their life span would be even better use of a persons time and efforts.
....Mac46I'm just a farmer
isaiah Guru Joined: 25/12/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 303
Posted: 09:50pm 17 Jun 2011
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Rastus
What happened to the battery charger?
A lot of the older ones use a metal rectifier and with time they tend to break down. If this is the case and it didn't hurt anything else you can update the charger to solid state rectifiers. As Bob stated a few posts back a regular trickle charger is best for battery reclaiming, The new Smart Chargers I don't know what they are any good for. But If One posts his mishap or Mistake someone will be able to help you out,
This is the learning process.
The old Tungar charger in the pictures was originally a bulb rectifier and the bulb went bad and they haven't made them for years so we updated it to solid state and the first few rectifiers we knocked them and some fuses out , We all have problems and make mistakes.
Mac46 I thought you may have been going a bit to fast with the reclaiming.
Several weeks or more per battery.
Id go back and give them a longer run on the desulfitator and check the specific gravity of each cell.keep at it until that gravity cheeks good on all cells.
You can get a tester at tsc or Walmarts that just uses little balls like some if the antifreeze testers when it floats all the bulbs you should be good.
I have been thinking that we need a couple more desulitators so we can work on more batteries at a time.Don't get descouraged
IsaiahURL=http://www.motherearthnews.com/Renewable-Energy/1973-11- 01/The-Plowboy-Interview.aspx>The Plowboy Interview[/URL>
mac46 Guru Joined: 07/02/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 412
Posted: 10:58pm 17 Jun 2011
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Isaiah,
Something like this one...
You can also see the desulphinator in the back ground...still doing its thing.
Thanks for all the help.
...Mac46I'm just a farmer
VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539
Posted: 01:43am 18 Jun 2011
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Hi Guys
Time is a factor, we try to hurry but with batteries I have found that it takes a lot of time to fully desulphate. The batteries I started this thread with are still on a desulphator, and paralleled to the main battery bank, once they have equalized to the other batteries in the bank, it is a good idea to put them to work while still desulphating, the bank is SLA and they are WET cells, I had some reservation on this at first, but no problems emerged, I think the desulphator direct across them negates the slightly different float voltages. The electrolyte is as clear as water now and the plates have lost all the crusting that was initially apparent, while they are a bit distorted due to uneven electrolysis they are working at above 90 % of original term draw capacity, not bad considering that when I started with them they had 0 volts potential and the plates where not visible in the sulphate grunge
It is a good idea to put a fuse in the line to the reviving batteries on the main bank just in case one goes down and drains your battery bank before you notice 20 / 30 amps is enough to let them work, but will blow if a cell goes down. In the past I had one go, and it burned the 4mm hookup were like a kids sparkler, good but smelly fuse.
I would consider a 3 month term on desulphator to bring the battery right up as being normal. I also found that the second dip you mentioned is more pronounced in a battery thats been chemically treated. Looking into a few I dismantled I found that a piece of the plate that hadn't fully desulphated became detached and caused an alternate path to electron flow.
The bigger and better constructed batteries respond a lot better than cheap automotive batteries that are really designed to last 1 year to get out of warranty.
All the best
BobFoolin Around
mac46 Guru Joined: 07/02/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 412
Posted: 02:01am 18 Jun 2011
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VK4AYQ,
Thanks for posting all this "info", never had much success in the past at reviveing an old battery, but now things are looking up. I think I'm on the right track. Thank You!!! Thank You!!! Thank You!!!
I have had success using a Jaycar desulphator on some 6v 220A/h seal lead acid batteries. The cases were bulging outwards, after 2 weeks the bulge was about half.
Later I will put them back on the desulphator, but it currently is trying to bring some capacity back to my 6v 875A/h batteries, about 6 weeks on one and just moved it to another battery. No sign of any improvement yet, but then I haven't had it running on all 4 batteries (in series for 24v). Since the weather has turned cold their capacity has dropped to the point where 60A/h in will charge them back up from 50% charge. Luckerly that's about all I need to last overnight.
I also get the impression that the desulphator I am using is too small for the larger batteries from the meter readings.
Ian.
VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539
Posted: 03:36am 18 Jun 2011
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Hi Ian
By the sound of it the desulphator is too small for the job, I have used the Jaycar ones and found them suitable for a 100ah battery and thats about all.
The infinity brand I use are rated for 1000ah 24 volts but I found they work better if 300 to 500 ah limited.
One point on desulphation is when you start it is important to keep going till its done otherwise they develop a memory set like a ni cad battery and it is more difficult to get them better next try. I leave my desulphators on the battery at all times, its cheap compared to battery replacement.
Notice. New forum software under development. It's going to miss a few functions and look a bit ugly for a while, but I'm working on it full time now as the old forum was too unstable. Couple days, all good. If you notice any issues, please contact me.
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