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Forum Index : Windmills : f n p gridtie windturbine, triple stator

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domwild
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Joined: 16/12/2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 873
Posted: 04:50pm 05 Jul 2017
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Great build! Am green with envy!

Without looking too closely, I would be worried about the shaft diameter. I suspect the prop has to have a much thicker shaft and bearings?
Taxation as a means of achieving prosperity is like a man standing inside a bucket trying to lift himself up.

Winston Churchill
 
flc1
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Joined: 20/11/2011
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 242
Posted: 10:37pm 05 Jul 2017
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Yep, I understand your concern, but you would be doing well to snap one of those shafts with a sledge hammer.they are strong shafts.But I would not be keen to go much bigger than 3m diameter, I have not heard of anybody snapping a shaft yet , has anybody on here had a shaft snap?Edited by flc1 2017-07-07
 
DaveP68

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Joined: 25/11/2014
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 292
Posted: 12:17am 06 Jul 2017
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Hi Fred

I work on the machines that these shaft come from and have never heard of one ever suffering from and bending or shearing of even at 1000 + RPM.

You'll be fine & good luck with the new set up, hope all goes well and look forward to the results being published on here.

Cheers

David
There are realities if you do not accept, will lead to frustration because you will be spending time on wrong assumptions and the results cannot follow! The Dunning Kruger Effect :)
 
flc1
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Joined: 20/11/2011
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 242
Posted: 03:28pm 27 Jul 2017
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Just an update incase sombody is actualy interested lol, I have ended up buying the 1.2kw high voltage inverter , It was going to be the 3kw model but with useing 3 stators I would have to have one dumpload controller for each stator,the controllers are ac in dc out,the cost of the 3 controllers was the same as the inverter so doubled the price for that setup.
So I have just gone with 1 high voltage inverter and controller for 1 stator,uncut 36 copper with black cap and wired as delta ,and the other 2 stators will be useing the 45-90 vdc inverters, they come with there own built in dumpload,
And back to a third cut (3x4c) star ,copper 36 pole with black cap, and a 6th cut(6x2c) star 36pole copper with black cap,and both with the cap doublers.
I was going to use a delta 6x2c cut stator, But after running it up with the drill I found the cut in rpm was too high and the stator would be doing little work unless we get some higher wind, I dont want that,most of the wind here is low to medium ,so useing it in star rather than delta lowered the cutin rpm and it will be more usefull.
When I ran the 3 stators up with the drill I noticed that there was a small vibration , I think one of the shafts may have a slight bend in it or my joint between the two shafts is not perfect, but its nothing that Im worried about.its not a big vibration.
Will all be finnished soon..(happy wife = happy life),,Just sorting out wireing down the pole and a few other small things, then it will be up and running,,,, hopefully. Edited by flc1 2017-07-30
 
flc1
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Joined: 20/11/2011
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 242
Posted: 04:30pm 01 Aug 2017
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voltage switch that Dave built,finnished and in its box waiting for me to hook up to furling actuator , and an rps unit for one of the stators to measure rpm.
 
brucedownunder2
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Joined: 14/09/2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 1548
Posted: 01:00pm 05 Aug 2017
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Very interesting post.

I,m scouting around for those neo rotors(black ones ,is that correct?) .

It's been a long time since I fiddled with F&P , but looking yesterday at my junk ,I've plenty of bits and pieces to play with .

I think I'll try Phill's set up ,he seems to have the best mechanical skills and those blades .

I like your rpm box , do you have a pcb for it (for sale) ?

I think my mistake up to now has been going too big , I think I have to back off a bit as my exmork windgennie is just too heavy .

I'll keep an eye on your progress,be interesting to see it up and running ,post plenty of pics ,please.

good luck everybody

Bruce
Bushboy
 
DaveP68

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Joined: 25/11/2014
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 292
Posted: 07:37pm 05 Aug 2017
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Hi Bruce

The F&P Black rotor caps use Ferrite magnets.

Here is a link to their specifications;
Fisher & Paykel Direct Drive Motors

  brucedownunder2 said   I like your rpm box , do you have a pcb for it (for sale) ?


The circuit board is a one off, custom unit I made specially to Fred's requirements. It can be replicated as most parts can be purchased from Jaycar Electronics including the plastic casing and vero board.

It uses a 555 timer, adjustable from just over 30 min to 2 hours triggered by voltage which can be set from 245 - 310 VDC. The solid state switch uses 4 power MOSFET's set up in a H bridge configuration to allow reverse polarity of the 12 VDC to control an actuator. To turn on the actuator to extend it requires +12 VDC on the red & blue wires. Then when the actuator needs to be retracted is reverses the polarity to -12 VDC.

I know Phill has been trying out some the 36 pole copper stators with the black rotor caps.

Cheers

DavidEdited by DaveP68 2017-08-07
There are realities if you do not accept, will lead to frustration because you will be spending time on wrong assumptions and the results cannot follow! The Dunning Kruger Effect :)
 
brucedownunder2
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Joined: 14/09/2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 1548
Posted: 08:39pm 05 Aug 2017
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Thanks for that info Dave ,


So, what rotors are the neo's fitted to ?

and are they a lot more powerful ,and the cogging ,is it more or about the same as the ferrites ?.

Been under the house in my workshop all day sorting some very old stuff out ,,I have plenty of F&p stuff .would be a real shame to toss it out!.

Thanks

Bruce
Bushboy
 
flc1
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Joined: 20/11/2011
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 242
Posted: 03:09am 06 Aug 2017
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Yep Ill post some pics when its up n running Bruce,just sorting out some other unrelated issues at the moment, and still waiting for high voltage inverter to turn up.
Fred
 
flc1
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Joined: 20/11/2011
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 242
Posted: 05:19pm 07 Aug 2017
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I have decided to use the 6th cut(6x2c)delta stator, rather than the star,with the cap doubler, and have a switch for the other cap doubler so I can switch it on or off for watt hour performance testing etc,yes I change my mind alot lol.
 
flc1
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Joined: 20/11/2011
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 242
Posted: 09:53pm 09 Aug 2017
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Yea Bruce go with Phill, he has a lathe and a nice workshop etc..all the gears you would need.
I only have a arc welder and angle grinder in a farm shed, so Im limited with what I can create.
 
DaveP68

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Joined: 25/11/2014
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 292
Posted: 10:03pm 10 Aug 2017
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Hi Fred

Having stated you only used an arc welder & an angle grinder in a farm shed to build a 1.1 kW peak F&P dual wind turbine that is an awesome achievement. You also did it with only a 2.5 m diameter multi blade setup which just makes it even more impressive!

Many others from what I understand have tried with better mechanical skills and using lathes etc without achieving a 1 kW peak power output from an Dual F&P.

The highest I know of is 850 W which I think was done with those crappy old 42 pole stators.

Looking forward to hearing some results from the new wind turbine once it's up and flying.

Cheers

David
There are realities if you do not accept, will lead to frustration because you will be spending time on wrong assumptions and the results cannot follow! The Dunning Kruger Effect :)
 
flc1
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Joined: 20/11/2011
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 242
Posted: 11:41pm 11 Aug 2017
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The wind turbines dumpload resistors = 8 ohms, all from f n p washing machines.
 
DaveP68

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Joined: 25/11/2014
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 292
Posted: 11:22am 12 Aug 2017
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Hi Fred

Each resistor is rated 300 W, so with 12 combined to get 8 ohms the peak rating is 3.6 kW! That should be more than enough capacity for your dumpload function.

It may look a bit different, but you can't turn down free parts if they can be used for a different function like this.

Awesome job keep posting your progress photos, I'm sure they're generating lots of interest.

David
There are realities if you do not accept, will lead to frustration because you will be spending time on wrong assumptions and the results cannot follow! The Dunning Kruger Effect :)
 
flc1
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Joined: 20/11/2011
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 242
Posted: 12:01am 13 Aug 2017
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I added some more strengthening to the hub,so had to balance it again.
I wonder if there is much electrolytic corrosion between these aluminum blades and the steel blade roots?
I greased the shafts before inserting them into the blades to hopefully slow down any corrosion.
Edited by flc1 2017-08-14
 
flc1
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Joined: 20/11/2011
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 242
Posted: 10:30am 14 Aug 2017
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Gday Dave
might have to fit one of your power factor correction setups to my turbine ?
 
DaveP68

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Joined: 25/11/2014
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 292
Posted: 12:16pm 14 Aug 2017
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Hey Fred

Yep can do, will send it down along with with some more F&P dump load resistors.

Just need to fine tune it, so it works correctly and extracts the maximum power in the 500 to 600 RPM range.

Here's a photo of version 1 used for testing.




DavidEdited by DaveP68 2017-08-15
There are realities if you do not accept, will lead to frustration because you will be spending time on wrong assumptions and the results cannot follow! The Dunning Kruger Effect :)
 
flc1
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Joined: 20/11/2011
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 242
Posted: 02:21pm 14 Aug 2017
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Thanks Dave
looks good, small size
 
DaveP68

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Joined: 25/11/2014
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 292
Posted: 02:45pm 14 Aug 2017
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Less is more

When using a capacitor doubler, found that the required torque was much greater with more power in for a given output. Max output with the drill was 700 W.

Just completed another test and got 870 W @ 488 RPM so this is now the gift that keeps giving!! Haven't even optimized it yet, so expect that number to keep going up. But a jump of 170 W over a capacitor doubler using the same drive system is a very big change!!

Will keep you updated as know you will be putting up the wind turbine soon and don't want to hold up your progress.

David
There are realities if you do not accept, will lead to frustration because you will be spending time on wrong assumptions and the results cannot follow! The Dunning Kruger Effect :)
 
flc1
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Joined: 20/11/2011
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 242
Posted: 10:36pm 14 Aug 2017
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wow, now thats the sort of output we want from an f n p !
 
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