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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : Bloody Windows 10....(i’m done with it)
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Grogster Admin Group  Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9610 |
I have a machine here, clean install of Windows 10 Pro x64 to a 120GB SSD. All that went fine. Activation went fine. So far, so good. THEN W10 insisted on doing automatic updates, including installing OS upgrades. This is when it went pear shaped. Laptop hung - KB and mouse would not work anymore, and nothing would even after an hour of leaving it like that. I forced a reboot. Windows update now stuck at 0% and won't update anything. I did some research on the net, and found that this is VERY common - people have all kinds of hell with W10 updates so it would seem. Anyhoo, one solution I found was at admin command prompt to stop the four update services, delete the cache of downloads, then restart the process - sounds good. Problem is when I try to NET STOP any of those three services(wuauserv, cryptSvc, bits and msiserver), they all report 'The Windows Update service could not be stopped.'. Attempts to delete or rename the SoftwareDistribution folder as suggested in another webpage is greeted by 'Access denied.', even though I am running cmd at admin level, and now I am totally stuck. I f-ing hate Windows 10. This is a laptop I foolishly agreed to setup W10 on for a pal, but am starting to regret that now. W10 is the only windoze I am aware of, whose own update process can kill the system and create a whole list of problems that you have to fix before you can continue with where you were trying to go in the first place.....  Now, every time you reboot the machine, it keeps stating: 'Getting Windows ready. Don't turn off your computer' - this fails about five minutes later when the machine reboots itself - it does this on EVERY reboot now. As soon as the machine has rebooted, the CPU then runs at 100% even though you are doing nothing. There appears to be no network activity despite the CPU usage. Does anyone else have any other bright ideas? At this point, I am about to flatten this machine and re-install from an ISO of W10 from the Microsuck website. Oh, I REALLY hate Windows 10. ....and this is just ONE of the things about it that gets me so heated up. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| robert.rozee Guru  Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 2442 |
there is much to be said for an XP or win7 image running in a VM under linux. that way linux supplies all te device drivers, and windows is just there to look pretty. the user needs never be aware of the underlying linux. cheers, rob :-) |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9610 |
I never used to look at Linux much, but I have to say - perfectly honestly - that as a Windows user, with every new version of Windows, I study Linux more and more. Way back when, I used to use Windows XP for my home server and media-player, but now I use Puppy Linux for the media server, as the latest versions include ext4 and they make it child's play to setup Samba shares so the other Windoze machines on the network can access it. And it just works...... As opposed to Microsoft sharing where you have to jump through loop to get certain shares visible on the network. With Linux, you just install Samba, and setup samba.conf file the way you want, and bam - your shares are there and - shock, horror - can actually be used without having to fight the underlying OS to make it happen. And I use a Raspberry-Pi with OpenElec Linux on it as the replacement mediaplayer, so more and more of us Windows users are turning to Linux now, cos it just does what is advertised on the box without all the MS hoop-jumping. Windows didn't used to be that bad, but some aspects of it now - I just hate with a vengeance. I am just so over Windows 10 and all it's privacy sniffing among other things. I still run Windows 8.1 Pro 64-bit, and I still think this is a very under-rated Windows, once you turn off the Metro interface and install Classic Shell. I have had a great run on W8.1, and would not hesitate to install it again. I would not use W10 by choice. Rant, rant, rant...... I have downloaded a new ISO of W10, and will make another clean-install. Hopefully today's ISO download will include the majority of all those OS updates as part of the standard clean install, but we'll see. EDIT: I've checked the details of the W10 ISO I was using, and it was downloaded 25/10/2015, so that ISO is two years old, so it probably was not the wisest choice to install from that one anyway. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| Alastair Senior Member  Joined: 03/04/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 161 |
G sympathies - I worry every time Win10 does an update but so far only minor issues. I used XP for my work machine until the support stopped and too many apps would not run on it anymore. Might I suggest that once you have a clean install of Win10 you make an image and store it on a HDD that is kept offline. Also make another image once you have loaded all the apps you plan to use. Doing this means that if you have another win10 event you can quickly restore the image and you are back to a good starting point. As I am sure you are aware as you use windows it constantly makes changes to itself, especially the registry. After a while these changes will tend to slow windows down and can also cause startup to be slow. If you have a clean known image, once you feel the 'constipation' setting in you can restore the fresh image and start again. This does of course mean you will lose anything new but that can be overcome if you keep note along the way. Computers make life sooo easy don't they !!!  Now go and have a lie down. Cheers, Alastair |
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TassyJim Guru Joined: 07/08/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 6283 |
I suggest that you wait a few days. There is a new major update due out Tuesday (US time). Download that ISO and there would be fewer updates - until next time. I have to fix a keyboard error on my brother-in-laws PC tomorrow. If he would only stop using the keyboard, there wouldn't be so may problems! Jim VK7JH MMedit |
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Herry Senior Member Joined: 31/05/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 261 |
I use my computer for work as well as ignorantly tinkering. Long ago I decided that W10 was not for me! I have installed 'Never10' and go on happily using my W7 (I hated W8 too...). If ever locked out of that I will go Linux too. Senior?! Whatever it says, I'm a complete and utter beginner... |
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OA47 Guru Joined: 11/04/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 986 |
Jim, back in the days where I thought I new a little bit about PC's the staff and I used to talk about customers and their ID-10-T errors. |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9610 |
Thanks, guys. I have already flattened the old install, and clean-installed the 'New' ISO from Microsoft I downloaded today. I do note some quite different GUI prompts with this setup version over the old one, such as looking for(and downloading) updates as PART of the install process. W10 installed fine this time, but it STILL wanted to update - it is doing it now. @ Herry - Just out of interest, what is it about Win8 you did not like? Personally, I like W8 - once you tweak a couple of things, one of which is getting rid of the Metro GUI and booting directly to the desktop. Classic Shell is what I use to do both of those, and give me back a standard START button. I could not use Win8 as distributed with Metro and no start button.... Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| Alastair Senior Member Joined: 03/04/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 161 |
TJ, My only concern about a new release is that whilst it may fix some of the known problems, the track record of Microsoft is that it will surely have new 'undocumented features'. Now that I am very out of date with my Win knowledge I prefer to leave things to gel for some time and let the bright young nerds find the problems and create a new knowledge base. I am not a Win hater but I do wish that one could tune Win10 like in the old days. I use/need about 10% of what it can do and so much of the complexity creates opportunities for bugs and security holes. I used to write medical s/w way back when and the testing was very demanding. I would not touch it now, to validate s/w running on Win would be a nightmare. Much as I do not like Linux I am tempted to go that way with my next system, hopefully a while away. I suspect that I will run one linux for my tinkering and keep a win system for routine stuff. @G - glad you have overcome the challenges and are making progress. Cheers, Alastair |
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| Herry Senior Member Joined: 31/05/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 261 |
W8. It was the Metro I/F! And I had too much going on to bother about how to change it! I also remember the debacle with DOS 4.01 (I think). And as a vb6 coder I simply do not trust them any more. Senior?! Whatever it says, I'm a complete and utter beginner... |
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| isochronic Guru Joined: 21/01/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 689 |
++... I wonder, is an OS that needs frequent updates - at serious download cost - really fit-for-purpose ? A car that required work every few months would be called a lemon, and deserve it. As for the usual disingenuous psychology - "If we call it Creator, it will be more attractive" - well..."creative b@#$(%^t" sounds more like it. |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9610 |
@ Herry - Yeah, I kinda thought that might be the case. The underlying OS in Win8 is actually really good IMHO, once you get rid of Metro and put back a START button.  Well, the laptop has finished updating, and it seems happy - this time. Still more hoop-jumping then you should have to do for an OS, IMO. The OS is supposed to work for you, not you work for the OS...... Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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twofingers Guru Joined: 02/06/2014 Location: GermanyPosts: 1593 |
Really?  And I thought all the years: "The OS is supposed to work for the company that gave or sold it to to you."  EDIT ... and maybe this explains why you need so many update stuff ... Or in other words: "If it's free, you're probably the product!" (I got the W7-W10-update for free, but I'm stiil working with W7 - auto updates disabled.) causality ≠correlation ≠coincidence |
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| Boppa Guru Joined: 08/11/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 814 |
I went ubuntu quite a while back (altho I do have one XP laptop still for some programs that I want that simply wont run under wine (or indeed any windows later than xp!!) The thing is that despite all the horror stories about linux and command lines and you would have to write your own code to get anything to work- it was disappointingly easy to install- I just did it and it worked I bought a new printer, and plugged it in- and it works I installed ubuntu on a total of 5 machines- and in every single case it just installed and worked In comparison to the horror that was the various windows (vista,7, 2 8's and 10), none would talk to each other on the lan, the shared printer was a nightmare to get working and was broken after every update, and every update breaks something else on the non10 systems (deliberately??? to force you to 10??) Even installed ubuntu on an elderly friends system and set it up to look like xp- she's ecstatic that I 'fixed'her old computer and magically it doesnt get infected by viruses and malware anymore (a all too common problem with her previously- she's click happy lol) |
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| twofingers Guru Joined: 02/06/2014 Location: GermanyPosts: 1593 |
Maybe this is connected with Grogsters issue. causality ≠correlation ≠coincidence |
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| Herry Senior Member Joined: 31/05/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 261 |
Articulate but totally intolerable for all the users who may not be computer savvy and who just want to *use* their computers for vital tasks. And it is not the only time. This has been going on for months on and off. Take a look at the thread on Whirlpool. And in Linux, I used Mint very happily. Only problem in my case is that I have written a number of utilities in Visual Basic 6 and that will not run on Linux. The workaround, with W7 running in a virtual machine is too messy as some of the utilities transmit files from my wp system. Haven't got the time to nut it out at the mo! Senior?! Whatever it says, I'm a complete and utter beginner... |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9610 |
The only thing that keeps ME in Windows, is that my CAD software that I use almost daily is not available for Linux. I have emailed them, but they said they are never going to do Linux versions, and that is fair enough. I had limited success installing and running those softwares under WINE in Linux a year or two ago, and although they DID work in WINE under Linux, they were so slow as to be useless. On exactly the same hardware in Windows, they ran flawlessly. This is not a criticism of WINE or Linux. WINE has to do some pretty serious work to emulate a Windows environment to those apps, and when they are reasonably CPU intensive even under Windows, it was perhaps asking a bit much. Something else I always planned to try, was a VM in Linux, running the CAD software. I don't know if that would help the CAD perform any better or not, but I never got around to trying that. Say XP SP3 in a VM just to run the CAD stuff. As to Windows updates, there seems to be literally HUNDREDS of updates for Windows now, and installing the UPDATES on a clean-install can take LONGER then installing the core OS itself. The updates are just about an OS in and of themselves, so you are running an OS on top of another OS. That is getting pretty backwards, really. I don't know if even Microsoft engineers fully understand Windows as it is these days, cos it is now so huge at source-code level, and makes so many decisions for itself on what it thinks it needs etc, I think it has become something of a code blackhole, and they just ram software updates out to fix everything that goes wrong rather then have to deal with that blackhole. That perhaps explains why there are so many freakin' update packages for Windows these days. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| joebog1 Senior Member Joined: 07/11/2015 Location: AustraliaPosts: 114 |
HHMMMM Grogster!!! Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! DONT let YOUR smoke out!!! I been using Unix almost 40 years, and have never written a line of code yet!! I used windows 400,000 times ( thats most of the re-installs I think ) starting with DOS 2.7 which at LEAST had a terminal ( SLAP!! yes a terminal disease) Then through all the dosses !!!then from 3.1 up to 2000 ( the LAST of the true OS's from mongrel soft ) Try Linux Mint !! easy peasey. For cad software try running LibreCAD under mint. If you want security try Linux Debian ( You WILL need to write simple code though) You want anonymous try Tails you music, video, photography try Ubuntu Studio Updates every few days with most distros, but NOT OS updates ( unless you want them ) Most will be security updates, closing the odd port here and there. Look for LTS versions ( LTS = Long Term Support) From BIG reel to reel tape drives and Perkin Elmer 3205's, to single seedie and a small xeon processor, I cannot recommend Linux enough. You WILL live longer, and wont need double blood pressure medication. Seriously, try a modern Linux distro, there are over 100 flavours to choose from. ALL 100% free. Around 70,000 pre compiled ( just install) applications. VERY little chance of virii, or trojans. I am an hardware engineer, NOT a software guru, but I look at this group every day, IF you need HELP, simply ask!!! If I cant help, I can 99% point you in the right direction. My best wishes to you. Joe |
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| Herry Senior Member Joined: 31/05/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 261 |
Since we are reminiscing, I don't go back to mainframes or minis but I certainly go back to the Z-80 and programming in 4K (Now *that* is a useful discipline). And DOS 4.01 (I think) which was buggy) Senior?! Whatever it says, I'm a complete and utter beginner... |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9610 |
Thanks Joe.  I like Puppy Linux at the moment, cos it runs totally in RAM, so is quick on just about any hardware with enough RAM. I hear good things about Mint - I should try it again. Last version of that I played with was 17 from 2014, but I expect it has gone through some revisions since then. I will check out LibreCAD. I use LibreOFFICE on my Windoze machine and love it.Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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