I'm trying to help the CMM2 community porting games I played on my old MSX in the 90s. Knightmare is one example.

There are grate games we can port. I was thinking about Another World, or Flashback, all very viable to be implemented in MMBasic

Having more titles running on our CMM2 will help I think

  Turbo46 said  

Hi Grogster,
Please forgive me if I'm wrong but doesn't the CMM2 Gen 2 already have a spot for the Hobbytronics mouse controller chip.

Yes, you are correct.
You CAN fit the Hobbytronics mouse flavour of the chip there, and that gives you native USB mouse support.

I had kinda forgotten about that, cos I have never fitted it in all the units I have sold!  

I think that the USB chip that Rob suggested, has better support in general for both USB mouse and keyboard though, including keyboards with built-in hubs.  I know that SOME USB keyboards refuse to work with the CMM2 - even ones that DON'T have any kind of - known - hub in them, or special keys etc.  But there are so many USB keyboards out there, that it is generally not that much of an issue to find one that does work fine on the CMM2.

Perhaps a case of half-a-dozen of one, and six of the other.
Edited 2023-12-07 16:29 by Grogster

  Grogster said  

IF - and this is a big 'IF' - we were to do a new PCB layout that included an internal VGA-to-HDMI converter module(that would run in parallel with the standard VGA output), case and layout, that would be a good time to put "D" sockets on for the joysticks, and also include Rob's USB support chip too.  As that chip outputs in a standard serial protocol, you probably would not even need to change the CMM2 firmware - you just intercept the output from the USB chip, and do whatever for the mouse and keyboard via interrupts in MMBASIC.  It may not be that simple in reality, but it would have to be, as I don't think we'd ever convince Peter(matherp) to change the code to support it.

My personal view on this is that VGA-To-HDMI is an external option for people who don't have VGA cables.

The USB support would be great as it knocks down another barrier to acceptance - that is no problem to all of us hoarders with 20 different keyboards lying around - but is an obstacle to the new enthusiast.

The 'D' socket for joysticks is a a tricky one. Correct me if I'm wrong - but it's not easy to get those joysticks (I sure would love an old QuickShot Like I used to have!). Are we better trying to tie in to the USB chip and using modern game controllers (quick note - I hate game controllers and refuse to use them - but I am also not oblivious to the fact that they are popular with the young-uns).

Do we go absolutely mental and just commit to a video arcade standard like Jamma? Yes - I know that's bonkers, and I should be tarred and feathered for suggesting it  - but the CMM2 would be an awesome arcade motherboard.
*I'm not 100% serious about this - but only because it's a bit mental. I could be persuaded.

My 2 penn'ort:

HDMI output should be an external adapter. As has been pointed out, the user gains nothing other than a change of connector. There's no shortage of either VGA displays or VGA to HDMI converters.

On joysticks and controllers I don't have any real preference other than at a technical level! The NES/SNES controllers are dead easy to interface in MMBasic. Support for the WII Classic is in both the PicoMite and the CMM2 so that's a good system. Those of you who have looked at what I did on the PicoGAME will know that I like to keep my options open. :)  I don't want to be tied to an Atari joystick though. I think it's the wrong approach completely - we've moved way beyond that and it's only of historical interest.

On PicoGAME version 3 (not released) I used only I2C controllers and suggested a simple interface for an Atari joystick to make it I2C. I think this is a far better approach. I2C has the advantage that you can have multiple controllers without extra pins. I also suggested standardising on the RJ12 6P6C connector for a combined PS2/I2C port, allowing a keyboard to be plugged in front or rear and similarly with a joystick/controller. It seemed to go down like a lead balloon. :)  It also used RJ45 for the VGA output, a CAT5 lead and a cheap RJ45-VGA adapter at the monitor. No VGA lead needed and will work up to 5m definitely - I tried it.

I would like to see a standardised I2C system, ideally, which can be used on any platform with an I2C interface. It doesn't even have to be MMBasic. I don't want a system that uses special connectors (like the WII).

(Incidentally, the WII controllers are I2C but have a fixed address. This doesn't matter on that system as the controllers are plugged into the bluetooth controller, not the base unit).
Edited 2023-12-07 18:22 by Mixtel90

  LeoNicolas said  

I'm trying to help the CMM2 community porting games I played on my old MSX in the 90s. Knightmare is one example.

There are grate games we can port. I was thinking about Another World, or Flashback, all very viable to be implemented in MMBasic

Having more titles running on our CMM2 will help I think

Fantastic! The news that the chips are back in stock (and more CMM2s can be built) has certainly also given me a shot in the arm to start developing on it again.

  Volhout said  

CMM2

So I will order a CMM2rev2 to replace my dead CMM2rev1, but when I release a program for it, it will need to be CMM2rev1 compliant.

Volhout

Why not include features for both Rev1 and Rev2 but only make the Rev2 code active if a Rev 2 is detected? If it's not possible for software to determine that, you could ask the user which they'd like to use and store the answer, either in the code itself or in a configuration file so the question only needs to be asked once.

Really enjoying this discussion, chums - if only just for the discussion of it and nothing ever comes from it.

OK, seems more sensible on the external HDMI converter idea.
Have any of the members tried a VGA-to-HDMI converter on the CMM2?
Can you link to the one(s) that you tried that WORKED?
That would just give me something to research with respect to that idea.
Not planning to buy up any, I am just wanting to research the external idea a bit more.

  Grogster said  

Have any of the members tried a VGA-to-HDMI converter on the CMM2?
Can you link to the one(s) that you tried that WORKED?
That would just give me something to research with respect to that idea.
Not planning to buy up any, I am just wanting to research the external idea a bit more.

This is the one that I use. It does need an external power source, which I pull off a spare USB port on PC.

It can also take the 3.5mm audio from the CMM2 and feed it with the HDMI signal to use the speakers in my monitor.

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B083K83NNX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I should point out that I have a VGA port on my monitor - however I use the HDMI so that I can use an HDMI switch to flip my second display between PC, CMM2, Raspberry Pi and my iMac.
Edited 2023-12-08 09:01 by PeteCotton

I have the same one from here but without the brand name.

Regarding keyboards: someone on TBS was compiling a list of compatible keyboards. I thought is was CircuitGizmos but I can't find it.

Bill

And another from AE - untested.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005295921689.html
AU$4.35 + AU$2.99 P&P
Specifications
1. Input ports: VGA, 3.5mm audio, USB power
2. Output ports: HDMI-compatible
3. Supported input resolutions: 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768, 1280x720, 1600x1200, 1920x1080 pixels

Package:
1 x VGA to HDMI-compatible converter (Without retail packing)
1 x USB power cable

I also have been looking around, and found this one for the grand sum of two fifty.....

I might get one sample to play about with.  At $2.50, it's hardly gonna break the bank if it ends up being useless.

Yes that looks better. No bulky dongle hanging out of the box and no VGA cable needed.

Yes, but will it WORK for $2.50!!!!!!
     

I guess we'll see.
This thing is all over AliExpress under different sellers, so availability is not an issue, and as we don't CARE about true HD as applied to HDMI for the CMM2....well, we might be onto something!

.......if it works!

Another advantage of having the HDMI output is that you can feed it directly into an HDMI video capture card on your PC and record rock solid videos of the CMM2 in action - very useful if we want to raise it's profile.

How much are these video cards? Well, I paid $15 for mine about 4 years ago and it still works great. It just plugs into a USB port on your PC and the HDMI cable plugs in the other end.

https://www.amazon.ca/Recorder-Converter-Streaming-Broadcasting-Conference/dp/B0CJ95M7PG/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=2N3YPUGA93Y5E

I have had no issues with either keyboards or monitors with any of the 3 CMM2's I own (both Gen1 and Gen2). Any cheap keyboard with no fancy addons seems to work just fine. And I have never found a flat-screen monitor that did not auto-sync to any of the CMM2 video modes.

While I have not tried to use a VGA-to-HDMI converter, I want to point out that not all of the various retro-computing boxes support HDMI. For instance, the new Commander X16 (I have one on order) only has VGA output.

I agree with all the comments about how much better the CMM2 graphics and speed are than ANY of the retro competitors. It would be amusing to try writing some ARM assembler to add another layer of speed awesomeness.

And most important of all IMHO, MMBasic is far, FAR better than any of the old line-number-style BASICs that all derive from the original MS Basic.

I would be happy to help with some kind of archival database of CMM2 programs, games and others. It's a shame that CMM2.FUN has gone static.

-Bill

  William Leue said  

I agree with all the comments about how much better the CMM2 graphics and speed are than ANY of the retro competitors. It would be amusing to try writing some ARM assembler to add another layer of speed awesomeness.

I think one of the things that's missing from all of the BASIC benchmarks is the Chrome-Art capabilities of the CMM2 (my understanding is that it's akin to the Blitter chip in the Amiga - with ultra fast memory transfers). So, although MMBasic is really really fast - so far, we've just been comparing computational speeds (square routes, loops etc.). If we step that up to full blown games, where a huge chunk of the game loop time is drawing to the screen, I suspect that the gap between the CMM2 and other new-retro computers will be even more staggering.

  William Leue said  

And most important of all IMHO, MMBasic is far, FAR better than any of the old line-number-style BASICs that all derive from the original MS Basic.

I agree 100%. The Agon BASIC is BBC BASIC - which was absolutely brilliant 40 years ago, but hasn't progress at all since then. MMBasic is a lovely blend of modern and old.

  William Leue said  

I would be happy to help with some kind of archival database of CMM2 programs, games and others. It's a shame that CMM2.FUN has gone static.

Thanks!

  thwill said  

Hi folks,

I have given "The Welcome Tape" the briefest of smoke tests and it seems to be working including CSUBs and the Mouse & Controller support in the "Mandelbrot Explorer" program; which is the only program that included such support.

If there is someone with more time on their hands then it would be great if they could take a look too as I'm prepared to address bugs even if I'm not prepared to extend it until we have maintained archive/wiki ("yes", I will keep going on).

Version 1.0.2 - 5-Dec-2023:
- For firmware 5.07.00 or later.
- This is a maintenance release, it contains the same catalogue of
  programs as Version 1.0.0.
- Updated "Minesweeper" to version 1.0.2
  - fixed bug where using the lower-case 'a' key to move left did not work.
- Updated timings on splash screen.
- Updated firmware version sanitisation.
- Updated menu to use menu_quit() instead of quit() as a SUB name; the latter
  is a keyword in MMBasic for Windows and MMBasic for Linux (MMB4L).

Download: https://github.com/thwill1000/cmm2-welcome/releases/tag/release-1.0.2

Note: untested, but most of it (CSUB programs excluded) should run on MMB4W.

Best wishes,

Tom

I have copied your “The Welcome Tape” to the SD card of my CMM2G2V2 and when I do it manually everything works fine.

Now I have added this sub-function to the "menu.bas" module so that the program starts automatically after 5 seconds when it is switched on:



Well, the program does start, but the USB keyboard no longer works ;( If I press the letters for the menu control via the serial console, the programs do not start ;)

What am I doing wrong? Or is there another way to start the Welcome Tape program automatically after 5 seconds when switching on?

Hi @ManiB,

Wow, 'The Welcome Tape', there is a blast from the past.

Just to check I assume you have OPTION AUTORUN ON but have not done OPTION RAM ?

I get different but still broken behaviour when I try to configure "The Welcome Tape" to run on startup.

I think there might be issues with the CMM2 firmware and its capabilities when using AUTORUN ON: https://www.thebackshed.com/forum/ViewTopic.php?PID=240961#240961

I'm going to see if I can elicit a response from Peter before I try and determine some other way of doing this.

Best wishes,

Tom