BIT OF A RANT THREAD:

Tried to setup a brand-new out of the box HP laptop for a customer today, and looks like MS have now blocked the SHIFT+F10 access to the command-prompt.

Doubling-down on FORCING everyone to use a MS account.

Interestingly, this new HP laptop, in the BIOS, you CANNOT disable the WiFi - that's interesting.  Every other laptop I have run into before now, you CAN disable the WiFi in the BIOS, among other things.  In this new HP BIOS, about the only things you can change are weather TPM is enabled, and the boot-order.  Everything else is enabled by default, and you can't disable any components.

That prevents you from trying to install with the WiFi off, which was another workaround to get a local account.  Now, cos W11 can see various WiFi networks, you are FORCED into using a MS account.

The usual process of SHIFT+F10 or SHIFT+Fn+F10 on laptops, does nothing now - the command window no longer shows up, and ALT+TAB does not reveal it either - so it is not hiding in the background, and you can't switch to it.

WINDOWS+R does still bring up the RUN window, but if you try to run cmd.exe from there, W11 moans that cmd.exe - which MS wrote - is a security issue, and won't let you run it!





It's INSANE.  Users should be allowed to choose if they want a local account or a MS account.  This forcing users into "Our way or no way at all!" really sucks BADLY.

I actually told them about Linux, and plopped a copy of Linux Mint 22 as a live USB to play with overnight, but I am hoping I will have converted another to Linux.

This MS outright FORCING you to do certain things the way THEY want, and taking your freedom of choice away from you, is really starting to......."Annoy me", shall I say to keep it polite.

Anyway, back on Mint Live USB, the system is super-fast(only has 4GB of RAM so is less then I would like to see W11 running on anyway), effortlessly let me connect to the WiFi, it automatically found and connected to her WiFi printer, and she can still access all her backup files on the backup USB flash-drives in Linux with just a click or two - as you all will know and expect.

...and if I get her onto Mint permanently(installed rather then live USB), she can have the standard local user account and password.

Why, MS, Why.....
Edited 2025-09-16 15:55 by Grogster

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Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops!

Thanks for your efforts Grogs in bringing this to light.
I used the 'F10' method for setting up many PC's on a project our company is involved in and was unaware MS have now removed the feature.
Another pet hate of mine is the move to subscription based software. MS are again guilty in this area when they added the copilot feature to Office 365 and automatically billed me for the pleasure.
I immediately cancelled the subscription, found a third party vendor, and bought the software outright.
If I buy something I expect to own it.
I'm quite willing to pay for enhancements of my choice but I refuse to pay for 'bug' fixes or features that I do not want. To me, using the end user as a 'beta' tester is outright fraud. The software is not fit for the purpose for which it has been sold. They should do their own due diligence, during R&D, before unloading a product on the market.
The amount of 'failed' patches released which have to be fixed with more patches is deplorable.
Let's not get into the W10 to W11 forced migration........
Regards,
Mike B.

  Grogster said  

The usual process of SHIFT+F10 or SHIFT+Fn+F10 on laptops, does nothing now - the command window no longer shows up, and ALT+TAB does not reveal it either - so it is not hiding in the background, and you can't switch to it.

It’s really strange—I did it last week on a brand-new laptop that a client wanted to set up with a local account. Shift+Fn+F10 worked... I notice it’s a laptop; maybe it would work with an external keyboard?

That said, Microsoft does have a knack for disabling or changing the features users actually like...

  JulesO said  

It’s really strange—I did it last week on a brand-new laptop that a client wanted to set up with a local account. Shift+Fn+F10 worked... I notice it’s a laptop; maybe it would work with an external keyboard?

NO.

I tried that too - external USB keyboard - access to the command-prompt was denied.
Standard KB - no fancy features, just a bog-standard USB keyboard.
SHIFT+F10 was TOTALLY ignored.

Hello Linux Mint!  

  JulesO said  

That said, Microsoft does have a knack for disabling or changing the features users actually like...

They do indeed.

Heaven forfend that the USER should be allowed to have their own local account.
MUST have EVERYTHING and EVERYONE using W11, linked to the MS cloud services....

Their appear to be a multitude of slightly different versions of W11. Some of this irritating stuff is also arriving in W10 with the updates.

The same security message in the photo also appears in W10 now.
Where it asks "Still want to run this unverified app" I click on "See how" and can get it to run the "unverified app", if logged in as Admin.

Yeah, I did copy that and follow the prompts - but it wanted internet access, which was not yet established, so that FAILED at that point.

Linux Mint......just WORKS, and there is none of this crap.

Sorry everyone.
I am kinda worked-up about this tonight.
Setting up a Windoze system SHOULD NOT be this difficult, but again, MS are FORCING this: "You WILL have a MS account, and you will F-ING LIKE IT!" crap on everyone now, and the only thing that I somewhat enjoy about all of this crap, is showing people how EASY Linux Mint is in comparison.

Mint, generally speaking, also runs SO MUCH FASTER on the same hardware then (expletive deleted) Windoze 11 does.
Edited 2025-09-16 18:37 by Grogster

This sounds odd but step in to a walk-in freezer or another Faraday cage
to see if the WiFI is blocked. I have an old gutted refrigerator I store
my years of backup drives and a few computers just in case the world does
something stupid. Some of the older drives have service / maintenance manuals
for all kinds of equipment.

Quazee137

Another solution would be to reinstall Windows 11 with an older version that still allows creating a local account... Yes, it’s totally frustrating.

Any version of Linux would make better use of the PC’s hardware. The computer I set up last week is a brand-new Dell Latitude. The fans run at full speed right after booting and on the desktop with nothing installed on it...

the phrase "stop the world, I want to get off" springs to mind..
is Linux Mint suitable for someone who doesn't want to waste their limited time on this earth fighting with an OS?
farewell Win7, I miss you.
don't know about you guys, but I just want to sit and play with my toy.

The verdict is in - the customer LIKES the look and feel of Mint, so wants me to wipe the factory W11 image, and setup Mint.

Bye, bye, W11 - another one bites the dust.

I DID check with her, that she does not use her machine for anything MS specific in the software department.  All she needs, is internet, printing, and office applications - all of which come standard with the default Mint install.(Libre Office suite)

For that kind of use, Mint is a PERFECT replacement for Windows on pretty much any hardware.  I wouldn't recommend Mint(or other Linux) to anyone who needs windows-specific software applications, but for your average everyday user, Mint does everything that Windows does.  And more.  And faster on the same hardware.

Rant, rant, rant....  

MS are king of this kind of irritation with W11 installs, but they are not the only ones.  Recently, I installed a new HP printer/scanner for someone, and a couple of days later, they called me saying they can't scan anything cos HP want them to logon to an account.

And they were right!
Just to be able to use your damn scanner, they were trying to FORCE you to create and sign-in to an HP account - just to use the scanner!!!
The HP scanner software outright refused to perform ANY scanning, until you signed into(or created) an HP account.

THAT is insane also.
I downloaded the free scanner app and showed them how to use that instead, which worked perfectly.

Ironically, it was the MS Scan app!  

Mint is ideal for most people now that the majority of stuff is done in a browser or can be done with Libre Office. There's absolutely no need for any Microsoft products to do that. Some game players might not be happy with the Linux gaming experience though.

Many distros are good, but just be careful with a few. Debian, for example, is rock solid but applications aren't updated during the life of a version (with a few exceptions). You can end up running some pretty old apps after a couple of years. Not that important for some, but Libre Office depends on compatibility with Microsoft Office and it can get out of step. That doesn't prevent Debian and Debian-based distros from being excellent though. Then, some people might have ethical problems with some distros. e.g. Zorin contains a lot of non-free "binary blob" code (they have commercial paid-for versions) and the boss of MX linux is known to be against LGBTQ and same-sex issues.

I might try LMDE (Linux Mint Debian Edition) at some point. It looks very promising (including the Mint look and feel) and isn't beholden to Ubuntu (a US company currently looking for ways in which to monetize things). LMDE is kept more or less in step with Mint, just in case something happens and they can't continue to use Ubuntu as the base distro.

Well to get around MS365 orifice I did have have Office 16 Enterprise so decided to have some fun and it did install on win10 perfectly   Now I just compressed it to .RAR and the file size is now 1.93 gig so I can upload it to say dropbox and it would be very interesting to see if win11 will allow it install and run.

So if any members who are on win11 want to try just let me know and I'll upload it to the cloud.

Now when win10 support does end I'm not going to upgrade as it states 2 out 3 of my computers won't run it so go figure.

Regards Bryan

I think I still have an original CD of MS Works somewhere. I don't think it will run on anything now. :)  I used to like that.